Stats Say Kucinich may be Least Valuable Democrat (fivethirtyeight.com)

[swag]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/stats-say-kucinich-may-be-least.html

...But what if we don't build in an exception for the so-called "liberal no's" -- that is, simply take every vote at face value? It turns out, then, that Davis is no longer the least valuable Democrat. Instead, it is Dennis Kucinich, who voted against health care, the hate crimes bill, the budget, the cap-and-trade bill, and financial regulation -- all ostensibly from the left -- in spite of coming from from the strongly Democratic Ohio 10th district near Cleveland.

Kucinich's score of -4.22 is not only worse than that of any other Democrat: it is also worse than that of all but 22 Republicans.

Obviously, I think a reasonable case can be made to build in an exception for opposition from the left, which is why I did so in the first place. On the other hand, the fact is that Kucinich isn't taking just the occasional symbolic stand: he's voting against his party on key agenda items about half the time. Perhaps by so doing, he's moving the Overton Window to the left, or perhaps he's just being a pain in the butt. We crunch numbers, you decide!

[PeaceNikki]

1. Shocking.

Or not.

[Coyote_Bandit]

2. Ummmm......

"Kucinich's score of -4.22 is not only worse than that of any other Democrat: it is also worse than that of all but 22 Republicans."


All that shows is that there isn't a whole hell of a lot of difference between Dems and Pukes these days. On the Political Compass, Dems and Pukes are almost exclusively in the right authoritarian quadrant.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

Meanwhile, Kucinich and Ralph Nader are in the libertarian left quadrant. Along with Gandhi and Nelson Mandala and the Dali Lama.

It would indeed seem that the only difference between Dems and Pukes these days is one of degree. I suspect even that difference is diminishing. Perhaps Dems would do well to abandon their corporate loyalties.

In the meantime I have to say that Dennis has more courage than most of the rest of the Dems.


edit for bad spelling

[Donnachaidh]

3. +1000 n/t

[Extend a Hand]

5. yep!

I agree with Dennis.

[NorthCarolina]

10. While you are 100% correct,

that concept is, apparently, far too complex for many to wrap their minds around. Of course, repeated statements such as the OP here are a jaded stealth attack at Liberalism in general. The DLC is aware that America, in general, is far to the left of DLC Dems and congress, so the Rahmbots hit sites such as DU to attack the messengers of Liberalism. What better target than Kucinich....small stature, not particularly attractive, but a leader in populist think. Kill the message by attacking the messenger. Make no mistake, these Kucinich attacks are all scripted and coordinated by those with an invested interest in maintaining the status quo and the false perception of America as a center-right nation.

[PeaceNikki]

12. It's stats. Not attacks.

Nate Silver did this study, not the OP.

The way some of you feel the need to protect DK is just plain creepy. Ineffective in the name of principles is still ineffective when you analyze facts and take emotion out of the equation. It's not as "complex" as you'd like to believe.

[depakid]

14. Stat games are fun, just like in Freakonomics- but they don't mean much in the real world

[PeaceNikki]

17. Did the people in his district elect him to get things done or say things they like to hear?

:shrug:

I guess we'll see when he's up for reelection.

[depakid]

19. They didn't elect him to behave like a Republican- or vote with them for 10 years

while they were in the majority- like many other so called "Democrats" did.

Nate, you see conveniently leaves substantive matters like that out.

Same way the Freakonomics guys get people to believe all sorts of spurious things.

[Coyote_Bandit]

22. Perhaps

you should consider that this has more to do with the policies of the Obama administration than the positions of Kucinich.

Obama got elected by selling a message of hope for change. But what has he even tried to change? Iraq? No. Afghanistan? No. Don't ask don't tell? No. Corporate friendly policies and bailouts? No. Hell, you hardly even hear mention of those bailout funds being repaid anymore. Healthcare? No. Instead Obama continually lowered his expectations and demands and all the proposals on the table represent to windfall for health insurers.

So far as I can tell the biggest difference between Bush and Obama is that Obama has a slightly better command of the English language - which makes him far less entertaining.

I can take some solace in the fact that I do not have buyer's remorse. While I did vote for Obama I never had high expectations for his Presidency. He has clearly fulfilled those. The best I can say about his administration is that it represents a lost opportunity. And that is nothing that motivates me to vote for him to retain his position the next time I see his name on my ballot.

[bertman]

37. Nicely stated, North Carolina.

[salguine]

20. + infinity

[IndianaGreen]

4. Dennis is least valuable to Wall Street. Democratic Party is full of Wall Street whores.

They don't give a rat's ass about the American worker.

[Jefferson23]

32. +1, that is it, in a nutshell.

[still_one]

6. Gee wiz. He should have voted for the IWR, the patriot act, the communications act, the welfare

reform act, deregulation, and so many other issues which made him the "least valuable Democrat"

There is a lot of stuff I don't agree with Dennis on, but he is one of the few honest people in that body

[IndianaGreen]

8. and if Dennis supported the Senate's HCR, they would love him

[still_one]

11. Dennis is a principled individual, and that should be encouraged in a party that has

swayed so far away from principle

[salguine]

7. He's one of about five who actually are valuable. It's the rest of them that are worthless.

[Daveparts still]

9. To a President

Like Republican Barack Obama I don't doubt that one little bit.

"It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it."

"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong."

Eugene Debs

[PeaceNikki]

13. You're calling Obama a Republican?

:\

[Dr.Phool]

15. If he's not, I am.

He's continuing so many of chimpolini's policies, he may as well have had a third term.

[tcaudilllg]

40. Sad.

[NorthCarolina]

16. Technically he's not, but he is a self declared "New Dem"

which is synonymous with DLC. DLC pretty much equates to GOP, so the statement is correct in a round about way.

[PeaceNikki]

18. There are a number of very interesting comments on that article.

Such as:
"I'd argue that Kucinich pushes the party RIGHT, not left.

The thing is, if Kucinich votes no, then the Democratic leadership has to get the vote elsewhere and the main stash of votes on the bubble are from Blue Dogs. Thus they end up either changing the bill to appeal to them or cutting a deal on another legislative priority (or simply putting in an earmark) to get that other vote.

If Kucinich had voted with the leadership to begin with, that wouldn't be necessary."

[depakid]

21. The converse is that if the progressive caucus had more backbone and voted as a block

legislation would be more popular and effective at actually solving the nation's problems.

Fact is that there are more of in the progressive caucus than are blue dogs.

Yet who gets their way- and weakens both legislation AND the party in the process.

[nightrain]

23. it may appear that DK is the "least valuable Democrat", but

actually, he is one of the most valuable in terms of voting his progressive principles.

It may appear that he votes "Republican" when he opposes the corporatist Democrat bills, but there are other reasons for his votes than he's a Republican in disguise. It's called having and living one's principles. "Walking the walk", not just doing the talk, like many Dems including, sadly, our President (so far).

I wish more Dems had and lived such principles, then we might actually get some decent governance supporting people rather than corporations.

[PeaceNikki]

24. Can one actually demonstrate that anything Kucinich has said or done in, say, the last five years

has actually modified the debate in any way (as opposed to just occasionally creating a debate about Kucinich himself)? The "overton window" is supposed to be an actual real world effect that you could potentially measure happening or not happening, it's not like you just say "overton window" and it justifies something.

(Another comment from fivethirtyeight thread)

[nightrain]

25. Having a conscience in the midst of corporate Dems who bend over backwards

to protect the private corporations rather than act of behalf of The People has value. Read the recent Democracy Now transcript. He's "doing" plenty.

Recall that MLK and plenty of other progressive/liberal folks do non-violent disobedience actions, which is a different sort of action than what it seems you are looking more for. It's plenty powerful. As in "We Shall Overcome". Perhaps it's not your style, that's okay. Takes all kinds to get it done. Dennis' principled stands and votes have meaning.

Recall Gandhi, Quaker conscientious objection resistance, the civil rights protests, sit-ins, marches etc. We are far better off because of that lineage.

[PeaceNikki]

26. Ah yes. The comparing of DK to Gandhi/MLK.

hyperbolic much? :eyes:

Again, can you actually demonstrate that anything Kucinich has said or done in, say, the last five years has actually modified the debate in any way?

No?

[nightrain]

27. He's in the same lineage. Nice dismissal Nikki. Thereby not

having to address my points! Slick.

Your name is "PeaceNikki"? Based on?

[PeaceNikki]

29. They have common ancestors? No shit!?

Do tell.

Oh wait, you were just being hyperbolic again, huh?

[nightrain]

30. no use having a conversation with you when you refuse to address

my points seriously.

[KoKo]

28. True...he hasn't "modified the debate" the way the Great Joe Lieberman has

voting with Repugs and Grandstanding...leaving the party yet holding all but one position on influential committees.

But, then Joe votes for the Insurance, Banking and has other interests he votes for. Kucinich isn't bought and paid for so he's less valuable than Joe Lieberman and Bart Stupak, plus many others.

[Enthusiast]

31. Mee Too!

[maxanne]

33. the narrative is being created

by the Democrats that it's Kucinich who is the problem. It's not weak, spineless Dems who pander to the right at every opportunity - it's Kucinich,
who is being labeled as a Nader. This narrative is being pushed by all kinds of Dems - including the Kucinich hating Markos Moulitsas.

The Dems haven't put any energy at all into hating misogynist religious cult member Bart Stupak.
Nope, better to hate the guy with principles.

Don't be mad at Obama for creating a terrible health plan. Be pissed at the guy who tells you the emperor is naked.

Statistics show that most people want single payer or a public option at the very least.

Statistics are very convenient to pull out when you want to create a narrative. When you have no spine, they're damned inconvenient.

[upi402]

34. All hail the Uniparty

Resistance is futile.

[alarimer]

35. He has more integrity than any 10 other Democrats.

Principles before party, always.

[tcaudilllg]

36. Time for Dennis to go. n/t

[bemildred]

38. Yeah, yeah, principles are so useless. nt

[Lil Missy]

39. No shit. Useless as tits on a boar. n/t