Is the Pope Toast?

[IndianaGreen]

Is the Pope Toast?

Mar 12, 10 | 7:47 AM
by Michael Wolff

This isn’t getting much attention in the US, but it’s a big one: The Pope’s in trouble.

Trouble, trouble. Not-going-away trouble. Run-out-of-office trouble. It’s a potentially transformative moment in matters of religion and of power, wherein even the infallible turns out to be vulnerable. Some of us live for such moments.

It’s the priest sex story, the same one we’ve already done—and done. But now it’s popping up in Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands, all markets which make the American news media yawn. But come on. The priest sex story is one of the best we’ve had. It’s one of the ones that the media of our time is going to be remembered for. It’s the ultimate destruction of facade; the giving of voice to silence; the catching of deer and hypocrites in the headlights. It’s our triumph.

It’s also, on the other hand, our shame. Because who hasn’t known for generations that’s what priests were doing? And yet the story went untold. It had to wait for 30 or 40 years for public sensibility to catch up with it before it was told.

And it’s still told with an absurd tact and respect. It’s still a story about errant and deviant priests instead of a story, as the numbers indicate, of not just a spectacular cover-up, but of a clear sexual predisposition. This was a driving motivation of priests joining the church: sex with boys.

So far, it’s been an American thing which the Vatican has been remote and rather haughty about: vulgar American media. But now the story is everywhere in Europe and it includes the Pope’s brother, Msgr. Georg Ratzinger.

http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/417/is-the-pope-toast.html

[Captain Hilts]

1. No. Cardinal Rat has lowered the long-delayed hammer on enablers in the Church in Ireland,

for example. This should have happened when JPII was asleep at the wheel.

[RainDog]

6. he wrote the rules for shutting up the victims before he was pope

so, no.

his brother is also among those who are under investigation. the brother now only admits to slapping the shit out of children in choir.

he was archbishop when the abuses in Germany were going on and all of this hits very close to home for him.

I would sincerely doubt if he did not know of cases in which abusers were tranfered rather than remove from their positions so that they could not abuse again.

[IndianaGreen]

11. and Ratzo was the one that protected Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston

and now has rewarded him with a plum job in Italy.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Yes, he's a shit. But he's a shit with a learning curve. It's hard to say how

power was divided under JPII. And how long JPII actually functioned and when he became a vegetable.

I'm no fan of Cardinal Rat.

[IndianaGreen]

18. JPII was feeble in his later years and let Opus Dei run the Vatican bureaucracy

Ratzo was in charge of internal discipline. He kept everyone in line, which begs the question as to his responsibility in the cover up of pedophile priests.

[LiberalFighter]

2. Vatican -- "it’s not just Catholics who molest boys, it’s going on all over."

The Vatican making excuses. Saying that it's okay because they aren't the only ones doing it?

How about that it is their fault that it expanded to the degree it has. How many have they covered up and (Catholic) law enforcement covered up for them?

[Cirque du So-What]

3. Big difference

Proof is coming to light that the abuse was systemic and that a massive cover-up was performed - along with a nod-and-wink promise to address the problem. Pope Ratzo isn't talking his ass out of this!

[RainDog]

7. incredible, isn't it? the hierachcy's defense is to try to shift blame to a woman

who is the judge dealing with the case.

they are accusing her of trying to find something on the pope when it's HER JOB to look at facts surrounding the case.

this woman is a widow who resigned her position in govt when her party sided with those who would invade rights of privacy for govt.

I want Müller, the guy making these claims, to face those he is accusing.

[Captain Hilts]

14. RC had the bureaucracy to hide it. That's what makes them different. nt

[ensho]

4. I sure hope the pope is toast - the vatican is in desperate need of a

house cleaning and a yard sale.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. No, he's german.

What was even worse was what he did as the previous pope's right hand hatchetman.

He dictated church policy to cover up sex abuse cases WORLD WIDE. HE authorized shipping of priests to countries with no extradition. He allowed priests to go back to other diocese after "counseling."

What he did in Germany might be unethical and immoral. What he did after he was promoted to the Vatican was criminal without a doubt. JP2 had a hands off policy on the sex crime issues (if only thousands of his priests kept their hands off too). The Rat controlled, created, and outlined all policies.

Bernard Law lives in comfort and quite rich in Roma solely because he followed the Rat's orders to the letter. Even before the Rat became the prince of princes, he took care of his loyal soldiers. A nice multiroom condo, a private secretary and personal aid, a huge tax free salary? The man should be eating three squares behind bars in a high security US facility.

[southernyankeebelle]

8. Am catholic and I never liked this pope. I can't put my finger on it, I

just never liked this man. I still pray and say my rosaries but I have stopped going to organized church. I don't even contribute to the church anymore. I don't contribute to any religious churchs. If I see someone needs help then that is where I give that I know is going to a person or family who really need it.

[RainDog]

10. I don't need a church to help people

I give money and donate goods to help people throughout the year. I give to groups that directly feed the poor without any middleman with high overhead and an agenda that does not match my view of the world called the church.

I directly talk to and help out homeless people where I live and have for years. This is where it's at. People within communities need help. Anyone can take the time to find out who they are and find out about their lives and do what they can to help them.

[madmom]

16. I, too, do not give to a church, nor do I go to a church. I give directly to

the people who need it. I work within a community service organization. We work every day, all year to help people in need. Oh and BTW I'm an atheist, you know one of the ones with no morals.:crazy:

[RainDog]

17. me too

my religious upbringing made me an atheist. lol.

my kids, who were not brought up in religion, are far more open minded about it than me. :)

actually, I do not say there are no gods. I just say there are no gods that are represented in the patriarchal religions of the world based upon their texts' claims that I can see.

but if someone wants to call the magnificence of life in all its varieties god, then that's okay by me. as long as they don't try to tell me how to live b/c of their god.

yeah, in the trenches people will find all kinds... atheists and theists, people of all colors, rich and poor.

I say it's a better use of my money to give directly to those organizations that work to alleviate hunger and poverty.

I also have to account for my actions. I have to have an ethical system that stems from a value of the greatest good for the greatest number, and from a value that would like to do the least harm possible. Nothing and no one is perfect.

what do we do, where we are, to improve the lives of others? what religion comes down to, at its best, is turning from self to others.

as in... namaste... or, "I recognize the godliness in you."

I think Thomas claims Jesus said something like that too.

[Captain Hilts]

15. You have a lot of company. He's the Dick Cheney of the Vatican. nt

[Hawkowl]

26. He has an EVIL face

I can not even look at a picture of his face with out being horrified. I don't mean ugly or homely--but their is something truly evil in that man.

[Cartoonist]

9. The coin is still in the air

They found the smoking gun. The only question remaining is "is the Pope infallible?" History says yes. If we are looking at a new day, then the Pope is history.

[CatholicEdHead]

12. No, he will keep his office until death

He will not resign over this. The institution will protect him.

[OmahaBlueDog]

21. I do wonder if it will blunt his influence

Ever since he became Pope, it seems the American Church is becoming more strident. Global Warming, for example, was acknoweledged by JPII. Benedict has, to a large extent, reversed course on this. Last week, my daughter was told Global Warming is a fraud and the theory of Evolution is false in religous ed class -- something I'd expect from our local megachurch, but not necessarily the Catholic Church.

Also, the teacher remained silent when another student shouted out "Obama is the Anti-Christ." I found this telling at several levels.

[RainDog]

22. so, do you have to tell your child she is being lied to as the lies occur?

how do you deal with systemic lying to your child by people who are supposed to be authority figures?

If you say nothing then your child thinks that they have something worth listening to.

If you say something then your child has to keep quiet to get by.

I wouldn't want to be in that situation with my kid because their actions would reflect on me if I didn't note that they were liars. It would undermine me, in other words, as a person of trust for my own child.

[OmahaBlueDog]

23. The best solution any parent can offer to this problem is teaching their children to think

..and not to take what's offered at face value. My kid shouldn't just take my word for it either. She is a voracious reader and has a pretty good grasp on truth and fiction.

With respect to the Church, I always try to temper any disagreements I have with particular views with the charitable work they do.

I will also note this in the interest of full disclosure. I am not Catholic. My wife is. I agreed (and take the agreement seriously) to raise our children Catholic.

[RainDog]

24. I had it much easier

My ex is also ex catholic so our kids were just told that various people have various creation myths, etc.

I have very religious family members and I had to teach my children to guard what they say in the presence of most of them. But I also taught them why their parents held a different opinion and how they could test that for themselves.

[olegramps]

30. Have you removed her from this class?

[OmahaBlueDog]

32. No - you can't simply walk away from every idea you disagree with

[Fly by night]

19. No, but Mother Theresa is a cinnamon bun.

(Nashville in-joke)

[tomm2thumbs]

20. used to be people would ask 'is the Pope Polish?' and now it's 'toast' tsk tsk tsk

Guess you have to shuffle a few 'friends' around from sticky situations in order to influence votes and loyalties in order to become Pope.

[RainDog]

25. ...

[ColesCountyDem]

27. In one word, "No".

It's a lifetime job, and absolutely *no one* is or will be doing *anything whatsoever* to remove him from office.

:eyes:

[rosesaylavee]

28. I don't think he can be removed very easily...

Given the history of the job, he is not one of the worst that they have had. As someone said up thread, this is a life position. We have more of a chance of Justice Roberts being removed than the Pope. He represents Christ on earth and there would have to be a very direct very awful thing attributed to him alone for there to be even a remote possibility of removing him.

(Former catholic but a woman so what really do I know anyway. :sarcasm:)

[Bennyboy]

29. Conspiracy of Silence...MUST WATCH!!!!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=866739408240639313#

Sure this has been posted before but it still right on topic. Discovery channel produced, was to air but was pulled at the last second due to political pressure.

[POAS]

31. Toasted white bread! n/t