Per the CBO: Not everyone will be insured? Can this be refuted please?

[midnight]

Per the CBO:

Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million
Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million (44%)http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/

Isn't this the one element of this bill that has many here at D.U. celebrating?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

1. It is true --

though a high percentage of those who remain uninsured wil be illegal aliens according to what I have read. But a full third will be Amerians who have opted out of the system, such as hardship cases.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Ah, so you claim those who can not pay are 'opting out'?

Are you 'opting out' of a round the world cruise this month, or are you just not able to afford one?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

4. Not my wording really --

That was the wording of a piece I read on those who were being left out. Personally, I hate this piece of shit bill and find someone "opting out" because it would be too expensive for them to do highlights the problem with insurance reform perfectly.

[amandabeech]

7. No, most of us are over 50, can't afford $8,000 after taxes

for health care and make just a little too much for a subsidy.

And we have lost permanent employment with group health care or prospects for any.

Who wants to hire a gray-hair (or someone who obviously washes it away).

[nightrain]

8. yes. take a look at the calculator on Kaiser Foundation--

http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx


If you select "Reconciliation Proposal" and "No" employer coverage and plug in different incomes and ages, you'll see that one person in their 50s earning more than about 43K/yr will pay 2x the "regular" premium, get no subsidy, and the personal cost will be about 7K! Amounting to about 15% of the income. This is for the premium ONLY. Then there are deductibles and copays in addition.

Doubtful that this group will be able to afford "health care reform". Lower income folks get subsidies, but not medium income folks. This is TOTALLY unaffordable!

[amandabeech]

9. That's me, nightrain.

And a lot of my friends.

There will be a lot of really sick, run down folks hitting Medicare every year from now on.

We will be a lot sicker than the Medicare actuaries are predicting, and more expensive, too.

Maybe we'll be too sick to vote.



Younger folks listen up!

Prepare to be kicked to the curb when you hit 50!

Nobody wants you except the whacked out Republicans who think that since you're involuntarily retired, you can go teabagging for them.

[mike_c]

14. yet again "this bill does not help people like us...."

Quoted from another DU thread-- the one about student loan reform, which likewise apparently does little or nothing for those of us already suffering.

[kath]

16. Yep - several of us have been saying this for the past year -- what the a-holes in Congress (and the

Prez) call "affordable" and what is actually affordable in the REAL world are light-years apart. (same thing with Romney-care)

There will still be TONS of medical bankruptcies, and millions of people who won't get care because they can't afford it.

[flyarm]

19. shhhh the DU " insurance corp protection crew" will be here momentarily and rip your tongue out!!

don't ypu know we are supposed to cheer loudly and be happy happy happy....woo hoo..

this is sarcasm..:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[kath]

23. yep. Sad but true.

Very, very sad.

DU "insurance corp protection crew"... a-yup.

[flyarm]

18. AHHH but Nightrain, you are supposed to be celebrating and full of Joy..

about this totally terrific bill..don't you know that????????:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[nightrain]

20. I know, I know. I should be jumping with joy. But, in reality, I've caught a ton of shit

from some folks on DU over the months, particularly recently for pointing out some of the flaws in these proposals, bills, and programs. Apparently it is not okay to use critical thinking, nor one's past training and experience. Fortunately I recognize that their explosions are not about me, but are theirs....

The only caveat, which I didn't mention about the calculator is that in 6 months there will be that opportunity to buy into some high risk pool, and god knows that ain't gonna be cheap. Probably on the order of the calculator.

Obama has really messed up on health CARE. We are witnessing the turd polishing aspect of the political game now. :puke:

[flyarm]

24. You are in good company..many of us take the brunt of the liars and propagandists! eom

[avaistheone1]

10. The unaffordabilty of insurance for the 50+ and high medical bills

are going to send many of us into bankruptcy and poverty. The health reform bill leaves us out in the cold.

President Obama doesn't seem interested in helping those people over 50.

[amandabeech]

12. I cannot believe that there aren't folks like us in his old Illinois

Senate district. Doesn't he remember them?

It seems that he may have some unresolved issues with his mother, which many people have, but she died because she didn't have health care.

Does that have no effect on his thinking?

[nightrain]

21. amanda, I really really hear you, and join you in your disappointment..

A poster on DU months ago said something extremely profound (to me), which I copied down--

"One Must Remember That Obama's Rhetoric And Action Are Disjoint
The Rhetoric is alive with hope and change.
The Action is replete with reconciliation and appeasement.
It is as if the man is at war with himself.
How can one so conflicted be expected to stand firm and act?"


Now I can't recall if it was SandWalker or someone else who penned this, sorry. But, it helps me make "sense" of Obama's inner workings

[frazzled]

2. The categories of those who remain uninsured are:

undocumented workers (illegal immigrants)
those who receive a waiver because of religion (Christian Science, e.g.) or because they still can't afford it for extenuating reasons
those who choose to pay the tax penalty rather than get the insurance

[zalinda]

5. You don't CHOSE to pay the tax penalty

rather than get the insurance. You are forced to do it. There is a BIG difference. It's like saying someone CHOOSES to have a roof over their head or eat. It's no choice, it's still a kick to the already down and out.

You CHOOSE whether you want a red or blue car, the above is not a choice, but a demand.

zalinda

[kath]

17. +10

Great post.
None so blind as those who will not see... and there are brazillions of those here, sadly.

[avaistheone1]

11. You forgot a huge number of people.

Those who can not afford the insurance.

[rapturedbyrobots]

6. true

9 years after passage this bill is only ESTIMATED (probably over-estimated) to reach 92-94% coverage.

the same coverage that would've been reached in 2005 if this same bill had been passed 16 years ago when first presented by the REPUBLICANS as the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 (as an alternative to the clinton plan).

link to the ORIGINAL REPUBLICAN bill:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx

what the dems passed was essentially this same REPUBLICAN bill with a few small modifications.

[amandabeech]

13. Nine years from now I'll still be ineligible for Medicare.

Unless the economy improves substantially, and I have doubts that it will, I doubt if I will have employer coverage.

What part of the current law and reconciliation will get health care costs for older people down to half of what they are today?

I would be very happy to hear good news.

[kath]

15. That's why the note on Teddy Kennedy's grave and the statement by Vicky Kennedy

are jokes --- this is not anything CLOSE to the universal health CARE that Teddy wanted.

[Recursion]

22. A big chunk of that is undocumented immigrants

Most of the rest are people for whom the fine makes more financial sense than insurance; there are also some religious groups (Christian Scientists? who else?) that will be exempted.

As an aside, caving to the Right on undocumented immigrants was probably politically necessary but is stupid; the entire point of this bill is to have as few people as possible being treated at our expense in emergency rooms.