FBI Keeping Watch on Quran-Burning Threat

[cal04]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/09/08/fbi-keeping-watch-on-quran-burning-threat.html

The FBI has begun to collect information relating to a plan by a radical Christian pastor in Florida to stage a public Quran burning on the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks this Saturday. Given constitutional provisions protecting the freedom of expression, however, officials say they don't believe the FBI or any other federal authority has the power to stop at least a token Quran burning by the Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center.

Craig Lowe, mayor of Gainesville, the Florida university town where Jones's church is located, has confirmed to Declassified that local authorities have been in contact with both the FBI's small resident office in Gainesville and with the bureau's larger field office in Jacksonville to discuss the Quran-burning threat. The FBI, Lowe says, is "gathering information that might be related" to the church's plans, but he declined to elaborate on what kind of information was being gathered or what the bureau or other authorities might be able to do with it. Jeff Westcott, a spokesman for the FBI's Jacksonville office, refused to comment on or confirm Lowe's claims.


Mayor Lowe says that Jones's church applied last month for a permit to stage a bonfire to burn Qurans on the 9/11 anniversary. The mayor says Gainesville city authorities rejected the permit application on grounds of public safety and environmental protection. What city or other authorities—local, state, or federal—can or will do if Jones and his followers stage a bonfire without a permit is unclear. The mayor says the city's response would be "based within the law" and would be framed so as to ensure "compliance with the law." He says that authorities have been making contingency plans for such an eventuality, which they are "updating . . . as we receive new information." However, he declined to discuss the details of these contingency plans or any possible responses to a Quran burning that might be under consideration.

Lowe confirms that when he was running for mayor earlier this year, Jones and his church launched a personal attack on him because he's gay. During the election, Jones's church posted a sign reading "No Homo Mayor," similar to one currently posted announcing the Quran-burning event. After a secularist group filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service questioning whether such a proclamation by the church constituted a potential violation of its tax-exempt status because it constituted a political statement, the sign was then truncated to "No Homo," the mayor says. He says he doesn't believe the church's opposition to his election had a significant influence on his successful campaign for mayor.

[rexcat]

1. I find this worrisome...

They have the right to burn any book they want no matter how despicable the act is. These people are asshats but I don't think the FBI or any other law enforcement agency should be "investigating" them for protesting. All this says is we live in a police state.

Before anyone flames me I don't think anyone should be burning any books for any reason but for a law enforcement agency to investigate stupid people doing something that is legel is beyond the pale. It harkens back to the Bush* administration investigating anyone who opposed the Iraq war or further back to the McCarthy era.

Now if a tax-exempt organization decided to try to influence an election by all means that is worth investigating and if found guilty they should lose their tax-exempt status, but not for burning a book.

[Merlot]

2. Randi Rhodes had a good program about this today

She said the supreme court ruled against this type of thing because it threatens a specific group of people. For example, you can't burn a 20 foot tall cross on your private property while dressed up in funny white costumes with the intent to threaten a group of people.

She explains it much better, I'm paraphrasing, but there is legal precedent from the supreme court against what they are doing. It's not about their "rights" but also about the people they are persecuting.

[rexcat]

3. I don't see that burning a book is really going to threatening someone...

If I decided to burn the christian bible how is that illegal or threatening? Not saying I would. If the idiot minister tried to provoke harm to someone that is a problem. What he plans to do is offensive but so is burning the flag, but I consider this protected speech. If it is his copy of the quran he can do what he wants with it. If he took someones quran without permission and burned it that might be a different situation.

[Merlot]

4. He's not burning ONE book, he's burning a whole bunch with the intention

of harming a group of people. Burning a flag doesn't harm a group of people, it's a protest against a country. It's seen as two different issues.

Anyhow, do some research on the supreme courts view of this, or listen to randirhodes.com to hear her explain the issue. I learned a lot from it.

I'm not arguing this issue because I don't know enough about it, just relaying what I heard today and why what they (the book burners) are doing is not considered protected free speech.

[rexcat]

5. You have not provided an explanation of how this is going to harm...

muslims. It will hurt their feelings but it will not cause bodily harm to any of them. If he is advocating harming someone that is a differnet story. On the other hand it is very difficult to side with him on moral and ethical grounds but I truly believe that the US Constitution and our rights come first, feeling come a distant second.

This is what I found at and it sums up what I have been trying to say. I also went on the ACLU web site and they have not posted anything on the topic that I could find. I went on Randi Rhodes web site and to get the content on this issue you have to be a member. No thanks, I am not a fan of Randi Rhodes.

"Quran Burning Legal? Protest Possibly Protected
Rev. Terry Jones' 1st Amendment Rights Allow Protests; City Fire Ordinances Could Snuff out Planned Burning Muslim Holy Books" (CBS Evening New web site)

"Under the First Amendment, Jones has a constitutional right to protest and express his ideas, even ones that the government thinks are dangerous or unpatriotic.

That's why the Supreme Court struck down a law banning flag burning. In that case, the court said prohibiting people from mutilating the American flag was an illegal attempt to restrain speech.

<snip>

The Supreme Court has ruled that speech that directly incites violence or some kind of physical retaliation is not protected under the First Amendment. But while this is true in theory, the court has rarely banned that kind of speech or conduct".

More can be read at:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/08/eveningnews/main6846995.shtml


edited for spelling

[Zoeisright]

6. Oh, for pete's sake, you don't have to cause 'bodily harm' to someone to hurt them.

Flag burning is directed at a COUNTRY. This is directed at a specific group of people. What's so hard to understand? That asshole 'pastor' is inciting violence. And the courts aren't telling him to stop being such a dipshit - the military and citizens are.

[rexcat]

7. I am having problems with your logic...

A country is a group of people defined in a geographic area, therefore with your reasoning burning a national flag harms all inhabitants of the country.

I am defending the first amendment to the US Constitution. I understand you point but political correctness just does not fly in this situation. I have backed up my argument with facts. I can't say the same for you. I have also not heard him say "go out and harm, kill or maim muslims". If he crosses that line then there is an issue. It would appear that your emotions have gotten the better of you. I also understand that what he is saying may lead to someone doing something stupid but unless he directly advocates harming someone he can be the hate-mongering asshole that he is, along with his bigoted congregation. Hopefully the other members of the community in which he lives should shum he and his congregation but if I am not mistaken he lives in Florida and that is not going to happen. I know this because I lived in Florida for many years and attended university in Florida.

You are basically saying that since the minister is exercising his first amendment right to free speech we need to trash the US Constitution. I AM NOT DEFENDING the asshat minister but I will defend the Constitution.

Get a better argument or back off!