"The Story". I see I'm not the only one who thinks this is BIG.

[Brotherjohn]

Although I'm a bit discouraged it isn't getting more coverage so far. But these things take time.

This morning's DU headline article is "The Story" by Raul Groom. Besides sharing my taste in music (Soul Coughing), Raul also shares my instinct that Sunday's Washington Post article by Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus is "The Story", despite all the mania about Kobe, Arnie, et al. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39500-2003Aug9.html)

Or, as I put it in my post yesterday highlighting points from the piece, it was a shot across the bow of the Bush administration. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=162291)

Again, these things take time. I can't count the number of times I've heard those around during Watergate (I was only about 10) that the story festered and grew over many months. It takes time for good reporters to investigate and put together such stories. It takes time for the rest of the media and the politicians to pick up the gauntlet. Despite the current pundt fascination with this week's story, or next, the important parties are not losing sight of "The Story". The Post and the Times, the British press, politicians like Waxman, Rockefeller, Graham, and even some Republicans... they haven't lost sight of "The Story".

This will continue to build, mark my words.

[bookman]

1. Sad thing is...

..I'm not sure the American public can handle anything beyond a sound bite anymore.

I think if Watergate happened today Nixon would have finished his term in office.

[SpiralHawk]

2. Consider your words well marked, Brother John

...and prayed over, too. Let the truth be revealed. May justice prevail.

The first three paragraphs from the story, per DU posting rules.

Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence

By Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 10, 2003; Page A01


His name was Joe, from the U.S. government. He carried 40 classified slides and a message from the Bush administration.

An engineer-turned-CIA analyst, Joe had helped build the U.S. government case that Iraq posed a nuclear threat. He landed in Vienna on Jan. 22 and drove to the U.S. diplomatic mission downtown. In a conference room 32 floors above the Danube River, he told United Nations nuclear inspectors they were making a serious mistake.

At issue was Iraq's efforts to buy high-strength aluminum tubes. The U.S. government said those tubes were for centrifuges to enrich uranium for a nuclear bomb. But the IAEA, the world's nuclear watchdog, had uncovered strong evidence that Iraq was using them for conventional rockets. ...

[GumboYaYa]

3. I completely agree.

Pincus is the mouthpiece for the CIA. He has broken every story in this affair that has come from "unnamed CIA sources." It would not surprise me at all if Pincus is on the CIA's payroll.

As much as the substance of the story is good analysis, the larger implication to me is that the CIA is not letting this go away.

August is a slow news month. Let the press get their fill of Kobe (if that is possible) and Arnold in August. Come September when Congressional hearings get started this story will resurface.

[diplomats]

10. You're right about Pincus

eom

[Brotherjohn]

11. My take is that the people are still stewing over the "16 words".

It takes a lot to admit that you have been duped by your leaders into supporting an unjust war; to admit that you were lied to; to admit that (at a very vulnerable time in our nation's history, post-9-11) your country may not be the bright shining example you hoped it was. At least not as reflected by its leadership.

As people stew on this and begin to see its implications, they will gradually realize that it cannot continue.

[tpub]

4. we should be forwarding this link

to everyone we know, and to local and national news media

[Gin]

6. "Nuclear Blackmail"..that was it was and is...for us and this nation...

our kids are dying for these liars.

[Fovea]

5. I hope so.

And I share your love of Soul Coughing.

[ixion]

7. and here's 'The Paragraph'

"The new information indicates a pattern in which President Bush, Vice President Cheney and their subordinates -- in public and behind the scenes -- made allegations depicting Iraq's nuclear weapons program as more active, more certain and more imminent in its threat than the data they had would support. On occasion administration advocates withheld evidence that did not conform to their views. The White House seldom corrected misstatements or acknowledged loss of confidence in information upon which it had previously relied."


I think that pretty much sums it up.

[Brotherjohn]

8. I also found that paragraph the most important. It puts to lie...

... the entire administration line, even to this day. Despite all their changing stories, they still claim that they never misled. This paragraph is another way of saying they LIED, and repeatedly. And they back it up with plenty of evidence.

[Brotherjohn]

9. Another thing that's important is the aluminum tube angle.

Gellman and Pincus do not merely debunk (once and for all and more thoroughly than anywhere) the aluminum tubes as evidence for an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. They give clear evidence that the administration knew that THIS evidence was unreliable as well, yet they continued to use it.

It is perhaps a more egregrious example of this than the "16 words" regarding uranium from Africa. Here, it is known almost beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was NOT the purpose of the tubes, and there is evidence that the White House cooked the books specifically so they could continue to claim it was so. Evidence such as the method by which the dispute about the tubes was resolved before inclusion in the NIE as "most analysts" believing them to be intended for a centrifuge. The "most analysts" meant 4 agencies with expertise such as "eavesdropping, maps and foreign military forces", whereas the agency with far more expertise on the issue (Dept. of Energy) was thoroughly "convinced that no way in hell were these likely to be centrifuge tubes".

There are many more examples of this kind of intelligence-cooking, with the finger being pointed more directly than ever at the White House, and specifically at Bush and Cheney due to some of their unfounded statements.

This is much bigger than the "16-words". By specifically looking into the aluminum tubes issue, and into the inner workings of the White House (and Chief of Staff Andrew Card's White House Iraq Group), this article clearly demonstrates that the 16 words were not an isolated case, as the White House maintains. This article demonstrates that there was a pattern of deception coming from the Bush administration.

[GumboYaYa]

14. There are several more issues that have not yet

come to light.

You have the Iraqi defector whose testimony was good enough when he talked about Saddam's weapons programs, yet was shunted out of sight when he claimed all the weapons programs were destroyed after Gulf War I.

You have Powell's intercepted calls with no date and time stamps. I still think those recordings were from conversations years before.

You have the mobile WMD labs that turned out to be big helium tanks. Nothing like a bunch of squicky voiced Iraqis to scare the bejesus out of the US.

You have the outing of an active CIA agent.

You have the fact that the claims of the amounts of chemical weapons Saddam may have had were grossly overstated even based on the CIA's most wildly optimistic projections.

There are more missrepresentations that I am forgetting. The CIA will make sure this info is in the public domain. Those guys know how to take down a President.

[Martin Eden]

12. This article was also published in the Chicago Tribune

I forwarded it to my friend with whom I've been having an increasingly rancorous debate about his president's pre-war claims. He's intelligent and basically honest, but refuses to concede that the Bush administration in any way intentionally deceived the American people.

I'm sure he'll have some kind of convoluted argument that dismisses this article as politically motivated. True believers in shrub cling to their beliefs like a religion.

[KoKo]

13. Glad you posted it here Brother John. I had read your other post.. If one

looks through all the articles here in Editorials, today, the case is building for an Impeachment of some kind.

It may be Cheney who will take the fall first.....but as you said about Watergate......only Woodward and Bernstein were on this story and the TV media was pretty much just the nightly networks. No Cnn, then. So, in many ways, there really wasn't anyother visual outlet for the story.

Let the "whore" cables rave on about Swartzenneger and the "victim of the month." It will be the print media and powers that we don't know about who will expose all this. The American People aren't ready to believe that it's outrageous that Bush/Cheney took us to war based on exaggerated and false information and that Congress was complicit......and there's no appetite for trying to Impeach another President.....but there are other folks who are outraged and just like with Nixon they will start the ball rolling and we will have to see where it stops.. Check out John Dean's article in "Find Law" linked in GD, I believe. That one talking about the findings of the Congressional 9/11 report is an eye opener in how far he goes to show that Condi and Bush defintely had information from CIA about attacks with planes. And, Sam Dash's (Watergate Prosecutor) article where he compares Bush's actions to Nixon's in Watergate and lays out a case for impeachment much like Dean did a couple of weeks ago. Some folks with some influence are getting pretty angry and letting it all out!

But, it's going to take longer than we would all hope........and we know they won't go down easily.

[berry]

15. Yes, a very good day for news/analysis--

Don't forget Charles Hanley's AP piece (8-10-03) tearing apart Powell's UN testimony point by point. Newsjock reported that only about 20 of the 140 or so front pages posted by the Newseum had picked up the Hanley piece, but maybe lots of them had it on the inside pages.... I'll try to find the link, but you can try DU search for posts by newsjock to find it.

Also encouraging is the 7-16-03 WSJ article by Alan Murray telling about a group of GOPers who want a public debate about the direction Bush* is taking the US in (both in foreign and domestic policy). It even mentions lying and deceiving the people! The group is called the "Committee for the Republic," and its founders are powerful people--eg., C Boyden Grey and Clyde Prestowitz. Here's a link (not direct to the WSJ because you need to pay there):
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/analysis/2003/0715capital.htm

[KoKo]

22. Thanks for the Alan Murray article, Berry. I'm still wondering what

that's all about.....because the characters involved hardly seem to be ones who sould oppose "Empire Building" but I guess one never knows. I've never been a fan of Boyden Grey...and his connection to Bush I makes it odd, but some have felt that Poppy Bush is not so happy with his little spawn's ideas concerning foreign policy.

Maybe this is the start of a father/son thing.

[berry]

24. C Boyden Grey was vicious during the 2000 post-election mess in FL

--that's when he appeared on my radar, VERY much in W*'s camp. So I too find it odd that he'd be in a group like this--unless what it really is is a fear that his own power has been eclipsed by another clique (the PNACers). It might just be a vehicle for him in his own power aspirations. But I'm only guessing here--because I really dislike him too much to want to give him any credit for anything.

Prestowitz, though, I think is sincere. He wrote a book called "Rogue Nation", referring to the US. He was on booktv to talk about it. I don't know anything about the other names mentioned. Guess we'll have to wait to see if they do go public.

Either way, however, it's not bad to have the GOP breaking ranks over Bush* policies. It can't help but get people talking about these issues, and we really do need a national soul-searching (long overdue).

[diamond14]

16. it's a wild HURRICANE ! and shrub just sits there in crawford...

just like he went to Africa trying to ignore everything....

shrub is just dallying around in the EYE of this big hurricane...and the other part of the hurricane is the "09/11" intelligence failures and the reports, the saudi visit, the deleted 28 pages...THAT hurricane is about to merge with the "Iraq-rush-to-war" hurricane....

it's just a few more weeks before congress returns to DC...there are already 4 or 5 congressional investigations going on about this mess...but congress will have gotten an earful during their break...

BTW - have you contacted your congress reps LOCALLY, since they are home for the summer now....?????

as during watergate...few Americans realized or cared about the whole nixon scandals (and there were many more and much bigger scandals that watergate, and I often think that reTHUGlicans use "watergate" to claim that nixons ONLY crime was a 'little' burgalry....when really, nixon's whole WH gig was like the shrub, just riddled with scandals everywhere....

and watergate came to a head when nixon resigned, but most Americans were simply STUNNED...because, just like today, they weren't paying any attention to the news or to politics...in fact, there was a lot LESS news coverage in those days...today, with internet, cable, there is a lot MORE news coverage, but most people don't care to watch it...


hee hee hee...IMHO, it was interesting that LOTS of shrub's rich donors didn't come to his luncheon in crawford....and it wasn't due to the heat like they claimed (the rich always have AC)...the real issue is shrub...when Soros turned against shrub....others are following...

[Brotherjohn]

17. They weren't lying. It WAS due to the "heat". (metaphorically speaking)

nt

[Lauren2882]

18. I heard Barton Gellman interviewd on NPR's Morning Edition

It was Monday probably, the day the story was published in the Washington Post. I haven't read the article yet, but I was very impressed by his interview, specifically by the sense of urgency and importance that (to me at least) he conveyed in his voice, and in the clear way in which he presented the facts. I'd like to see this guy get more air time.

[PATRICK]

19. this and the "conspiracy theory thread"

Have a lot in common. It points out how little impact the truth has in the system we live in opposed to the automatic show and deletions of anything that rocks certain boats. It is not the abundance of suspicions, the ample forest of facts, the extremely high stakes if those were pursued just a notch to the 'real world".

Ranting, theorizing(since no one is actually pursuing the dangers) up against inertia, incompetenence, butt-covering, the vague real world we
tried in the past to label as the "system" or the "establishment". The favor returned by labeling the curious as "conspiracy nuts" or "partisan snipers". The ultimate frustration of being treated as a flying saucer afficianado for even thinking Bush is not a decent competent hero while everyone with a career in media and politics are deadly afraid(of losing their jobs?of being derided?) is moving into a suicidal fantasy world of dark denial and shallow thought.

The irony is that in denying "conspiracy" as a concept as one would the idea of Bigfoot it is obscuring the building of one right in the midst of the deniers. A conspiracy to dump Bush who is making the status quo not only unliveable but too insane to "look good". A conspiracy from the same career people who cover up and bury curiosity
as their routine job. Ironic also that since the situation is SO outrageous even for the "system" that the secretive CIA is practically doing it all in the public forums and NOT able to get a reaction similar to one Arnold media love fest.

But the structure is eating itself alive which I suppose is better than the Coup devouring the planet. If people suffer enough to demand some satisfaction ythey will be tossed scraps and told to move on, heal, pardon and bury all except what is necessary to carry the sorry mess forward to the next round of unrequited social disasters. And pretend that the repressed data does not exist and nothing should or could ever be done about it.

Sounds vague? With ALL the "alleged" crimes committed by the Coup even to list them makes you sound like a nut. Picking one for impeachment would be humorously cathactic and mostly inadequate to save "America". In the country of the blind the one-eyed citizen had better just shut up.

[piece sine]

20. Wow!

All of this is predicated on an earlier poster's presumption that Walter Pincus is a mole for the CIA...therefore, X Y and Z. And if he's not?!

I am as troubled by the Bush Administration as anyone else on this thread, but I doubt that conjecture, hyped with projected political wish-fulfillment, are going to get us where we NEED to go. We need a serious presidential candidate who exudes optimistic confidence and had a solid economic platform that will get us out of this recession!

I read Pincus' article very carefully last Sunday morning. The case, as tantalizing as it might turn out to be someday, is not nailed down and Pincus is the first to admit it. It's chock-a-block with journalistic wiggle room.

Let's go down to the Mall and ask a 100 friendly tourists if they are worried about anodized aluminium tubes or worried about their source of income. Hard to imagine voters won't put their survival and self-interest first. Understanding that fact is EXACTLY how you win an election!

You can worry about tubes all day; most people are more worried about their wallets. People are tired of shock and distruption. They are not going to oust Bush in next 14 months. Get real. The only way we're going to "impeach" Bush is with a great candidate and an ever greater turnout at the ballot box next November.

[berry]

25. It does seem to be the common wisdom that people vote their wallets,

but I am somewhat skeptical. (I also resisted the assumptions in my Econ 101 class that we all are motivated only and entirely by self-interest, narrowly defined.) I think Bush* will try to use fear again in '04--it worked so well the last time, overriding other concerns for just enough voters to make it possible to steal the election.

Jim McDermott (D-WA) gave a speech to Veterans for Peace in SF a few days ago--it was on C-span today (along with Will Pitt's talk). McDermott argued that people CAN understand "the good of the community" and "the good of the nation" and see that as the deciding factor. In other words, he questions the appeal to greed (or self-interest, if you want to sound less harsh about it). I recommend the speech--it is probably available for viewing on C-span. And here's a link to a transcript of it:
http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/

[westerby]

27. "Ask tourists if they are worried about anodized aluminium"

Probably not. But putting it that way underestimates the significance of the matter. Tourists, citizens will or at least should be worried if they are lied to about some of the most important decisions a country or government has to make. Like the decision to start a war.
If they are lied about the justification to start a war, they can be lied about economic aspects, too. So it DOES matter what Bush & Co. told the world about anodized aluminium, because it shows the degree of respect for the truth and their citizens.

[scarletwoman]

21. Eloquent, PATRICK, exceedingly eloquent.

You've gotten to the root: "...the situation is SO outrageous even for the "system" that the secretive CIA is practically doing it all in the public forums and NOT able to get a reaction similar to one Arnold media love fest."

Bravo!

Not shutting up, though. Who knows, reality may come to be popular someday.

sw

[Lugnut]

23. The key is.....

The point at which the Republicans get into the game. From some of the things I've been reading that seems to be happening albeit slowly. Watergate took some time to develop but the dripping has commenced in this case.

[Simeon Salus]

26. Nobody's yet mentioned Lockheed's SmartBomb ad on the page...

The irony defies description.