Firefighter refused to respond to Tucson massacre 'cause of "political bantering" at firehouse..WTF?

[Bill USA]

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/02/18/tucson-firefighter-refused-to-respond-to-giffords-shootings-why-political-bantering/


PHOENIX — A Tucson firefighter refused to respond to the Jan. 8 shooting rampage that wounded Representative Gabrielle Giffords because of political differences with his crew, delaying his unit’s arrival at the scene, according to internal department records.

Firefighter Ekstrum’s refusal to respond because of what he called “political bantering” caused confusion as the department dealt with the shooting, which left six dead, officials said.

His refusal to respond forced his team to stop at another firestation to find a properly trained firefighter to take his place.

(http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110218/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_firefighter_call">Ekstrum's team, which is specially trained to handle large medical emergencies, was dispatched to assist 90 minutes after the Jan. 8)

Ekstrum retired as department officials were considering disciplinary action.

... "disciplinary" action. I think citizens of Tucson might consider legal action.

[howaboutme]

1. He should be criminally charged with endangerment and lose his pension

While I support public workers who diligently do their job, they need to be held accountable to serving the public, and if they purposely say "up yours" to those they serve because of ideology or politics or anything as he did, he needs to lose everything.

Let him go to a job fair at Wal-Mart but I'll be damned if I want to pay for his early retirement.

[whathehell]

2. Legal Action, Yes...What freaking moran "delays" a life and death call

because of a political argument...Stoopid and Criminal.

[struggle4progress]

10. He seems to have been having personal problems and the Gifford shooting

upset him so much he became dysfunctional, so he went home. He has since resigned.

[RufusTFirefly]

3. Further proof that these workers eating at the public trough don't deserve collective bargaining!!

:sarcasm:

That's what a right-wing, Fox-news-watching acquaintance of mine would say. In fact, he's already saying it in other analogous cases. The toxicity of the Fox discourse is unbelievable.

The propagandists really have no shame.

[howaboutme]

4. So what does that mean?

1. As a public servant does he deserve the right and independence to pick and choose and screw the people he serves or?
2. As a public servant should be held totally accountable and risk everything if he abuses the public or takes graft?

My view as a taxpayer retired from the private sector is that we need more accountability from the public sector. I want public employees to face the same trials and tribulations and stress as private sector employees, so that we can all march together in the streets with pitch forks and demand that the mfing elitist banksters who own our government and that that caused this mess be imprisoned.

It is them against us.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. There were problems on the crew he was on

He took the rest of the shift off as sick and then dropped his papers. Current contract does not require him to document the illness.

Not much that can be done at this point.

[howaboutme]

6. To me he illustrates a failure in society and

no accountability.

We have a system where those who are supposed to serve us and then they screw up but are never held accountable. How many times must we see cops and others who abuse the public trust and then retire at 100% of salary.

Every public servant (including pols) should sign a contract that their mission is to honestly serve and protect, and if they are found guilty of failing to provide this service they should lose everything. I refuse to provide an early retirement for someone at 20 years who failed to do what they are entrusted to do.

[Bill USA]

11. finding the political atmosphere in the FH not to your liking is not an illness and not an

acceptable reason to refuse to answer a call for help from the community. He is supposed to be saving lives. he's not selling used cars.

I wonder how he would feel if he was shot and the paramedics discussed whether they should respond to the call bassed upon his politics? Meanwhile, he is bleeding to death.

Not much that can be done?? I wouldn't be so quick to conclude there is 'nothing to be done'.

He also, delayed his units arrival at the scene, because they had to go to another firehouse to pick up a trained individual to take his place.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. I don't disagree with you views

But under the typical fighter fighter union contract, he is most likely untouchable. The city probably has few options and will make the choice to simply let him retire than take on a court fight with the union which they would most likely lose. All the indignation and outrage in the world will not override what is in black and white as part of the contract.

I don't like it, but that is the most likely result. Just like cops who get qualified immunity when they ransack the wrong house.

[JohnWxy]

16. their is no union contract, nor any union which says 'expressing squeamishness' and refusing to

perform your duties is defensible behavior. I don't think any union would back this creep up.

True illness making performing your duties impossible ..yes, that's a valid point. Somebody saying "oh, I don't feel like it because I don't like the tone of discussion in the fire-house" is something completely different. (What was the 'tone of the conversation'? were the guys saying something like: "What a fucking coward to shoot people exercising their rights as citizens"?)

It would not hold up...even if a union would back him. I'm sure there isn't a union in the country who would back this prick...His actions besmirch the reputation of all EMT's.

[Bill USA]

12. just because he "dropped his papers" doesn't mean he is retired that second and that he can dodge

responsibility for his actions while on duty as a EMT (or whatever). His application for retirement will be reviewed. One thing to be checked out is was there any incidents of refusal to perform his duty ...outstanding.
This can mean instead of retirement he could just be separated without any retirement benefits. that's what can happen in the military.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. The military does not have a union contract

He said he was sick and left. Most contracts do not require proof of illness unless it is multiple days. That pretty much blocks an inquiry. His union will appropriately defend any attempt to block his pension and most likely there is no legal grounds to revoke it. He is probably on vacation until his paperwork is done.

Yes pensions can be done in the military but it is very rare. Their pension plans are very different too.

[JohnWxy]

17. No Union would back up a worker who refused to do his job without a legitimate reason.

[niyad]

7. why did it take 90 minutes to call this unit in anyway? he reminds me of those two emt's who

refused to help a woman a few years ago. and look what happened to the one emt just a few weeks ago. . .

[struggle4progress]

8. Prior GD threads:

Firefighter refused call to Tucson shooting spree scene
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=442570

Firefighter refused call to Giffords shooting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=446736

Firefighter Refused Call to Giffords Shooting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=445378

Might Tucson firefighter Mark Ekstrum have saved lives had he not refused to respond to Giffords?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=446774

[struggle4progress]

9. ... Capt. Ben Williams wrote that when Ekstrum first told him he would not go out on the call,

"he mentioned something about 'political bantering' and he did not want to be part of it." He said he was acting "for the good of the crew."

Williams said he told Ekstrum he could not refuse a call for that reason, and then talked to the firefighter privately in his office. He said Ekstrum "started to say something about how he had a much different political viewpoint than the rest of the crew and he was concerned." Despite being told that was not acceptable, Williams said Ekstrum informed him he was going home "sick," so they answered the call without him.

In a statement provided to the Fire Department late Wednesday, after he was contacted by the Star about the incident, Ekstrum said he was distraught over the shootings and had no problem with U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who is recovering from a bullet wound to the brain, and even voted for her in the last election ...

Firefighter refused call to Tucson shooting spree scene
Fernanda Echavarri and Rob O'Dell Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2011 12:45 pm
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_68abdf02-1d37-5e14-9974-6eeff8a22210.html



.. After he was contacted by the Daily Star about the incident, Ekstrum said in a statement he was distraught about the shootings and had no disagreement with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head and is recovering at a Houston medical facility. Ekstrum said he was "distracted" and doubted his ability to focus on an emergency call ...
Memos: Firefighter refused Giffords 911 call
Veteran retired from force before he could be disciplined, newspaper reports
msnbc.com news services
updated 2/17/2011 8:53:32 PM ET
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41654874/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts



... Firefighter Ekstrum, a 28-year veteran, retired after the rampage as department officials as department officials considered disciplinary action. A memorandum from a supervisor, Capt. Ben Williams, said that Firefighter Ekstrum “mentioned something about ‘political bantering’ and he did not want to be part of it.” Exactly what the disagreement was over remained unclear. In a statement, Mr. Ekstrum later said he had voted for Ms. Giffords, a Democrat, and did not respond because he was distraught over the shootings.

In the memo, Captain Williams said the firefighter had said “there were underlying issues regarding the call that brought up a lot of anger and made him ineffective as a firefighter.” ...

Tucson Firefighter Refused to Respond
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: February 17, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/us/18tucson.html?_r=1

[Hugin]

13. This story has been enormously successful in diverting the story of the shooting from the ...

Poisonous Rightwing Discourse and the disturbed individual who actually picked up a gun and did the shootings to an unrelated sideline. I wonder what we'd be talking about if the gunman had stayed home?