|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles |
skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-24-04 04:50 PM Original message |
SBV-Gate: The File, second prototype. (Send more links & stories, please.) |
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 05:12 PM by skip fox
SBV-GATE: THE FILE
Table of Contents I. Introduction and History of SBV for Truth II. Recent accounts of other swift boat vets contradicting the SBV for Truth III. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of individual SBV for Truth IV. Points of collusion between Republicans and the SBV for Truth each section separated by a line of asterisks. ************************************************************* I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth: Overall story: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9455159.htm History of SBV: Website registered April 14, 2004. The following is a good historical overview of their history with hot links. Good site!: http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth#History Overview of SBV ( a great site with hot links): http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth (Last night (23 Aug.) I heard a former Viet Nam POW on Fox (Hannity and Colmes) say that he was at a meeting "last month" where he "heard" about Kerry from "Kerry's fellow officers." Were they flying vets in (other SBVs $and POWs and letting O'Neill pump them full of his twisted obsessions, including the story of "Kerry's master plan" (i.e., to launch himself into politics and the public eye thru service in Vietnam and then public renunciations of that service)? Inquiring into their methodologies of recruitment we might find out quite a bit that would be damaging (just to show the coordination of a few men roping in and trying to brainwash others would be damaging because it would focus on the contrived nature of their organization. This link indicates that they were formed on or before May 4 of this year: http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=2004070119350511 Kerry's official take: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html Best job of debunking the SBVs for "truth" wingnut-by-wingunt: http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/ ************************************************* II. Recent accounts (during the last week) of Swift Boat Vets who were actually THERE! (What a concept): 1.) William Rood: <Snip> The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record. William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry. Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue. . . . Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the Democratic candidate. <snip> http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml and http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22swift.html 2.) Robert Lambert: <snip> Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry, Thurlow, and radarman first class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for Lambert's Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of Information Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." . . . The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush. We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews about the plan. . . . The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage \ ambushes. . . . We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. <snip> http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692 3.) Pat Runyon <snip> Trotwood, Ohio - An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a dangerous night mission 36 years ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry was grazed in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a combat injury. . . . Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid an inspection. "Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine started,' " Runyon said. But the outboard would not crank. Meanwhile, the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out. Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to pick up another gun and got hit in the arm. "It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start shooting again. When the firefight was over, Runyon said Kerry told him all he felt was a "burning sensation." <snip> http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/109265584379530.xml?isele 4.) Jim Russell: <snip> Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years ago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; John Kerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river. <snip> http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt 5.) Wayne D. Langhofer: <snip> Wayne D. Langhofer, now an employee at a Kansas gunpowder plant, told the Washington Post in yesterday's editions, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river." Reflecting on the battle in the Bay Hap River, which resulted both in Kerry being awarded the Bronze Star and receiving a third Purple Heart, which allowed him to end his combat tour after just four months, Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s, as well as muzzle flashes from the surrounding riverbanks. Langhofer manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry's. <snip> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/23/swift_boat_veteran_backs_kerry_on_details_of_1969_ambush/ 6.-8.) Jim McCann, Rich Baker, and Del Sandusky (with Jim Rusell, #4, above): <snip> In a conference call with reporters arranged by the campaign, three Navy Swift boat officers who served with Kerry 35 years ago but who said they have not been in touch with him for years defended his service and his bravery. Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker said Kerry served honorably and took issue with questions raised by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about his commendations. "He was the most aggressive officer in charge of Swift boats," Baker said. "With no disrespect to anyone out there, the whole Swift boat operation took courage and guts every time you stepped on those boats. But John Kerry was one step above the rest of us." . . . In Pennsylvania, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference that he witnessed the combat missions for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts. "He deserved every one of his medals," Sandusky said. <snip> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26519-2004Aug23.html ********************************************* III. SBV liars for hire who have recanted or qualified their original story, or whose specific stories have been directly challanged: a.) Alfred French in the SBV ad implies he was present at the incident, but . . . <snip> French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts. "I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with." One of the men is Larry Thurlow. . . . <snip> http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/109300303292321.xml Larry Thurlow's citation, containing references to incoming fire which Thurlow's affidavit denies: <snip> But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him." . . . "I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation. <snip> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html ********************************************* IV. SBV-for "truth" and Republican collusion: A schematic showing basic associations (and some contradictions): http://nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html and <snip> How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans. <snip> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html and: <snip> "A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported."Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year. <snip> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/ <snip> WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists . . . . This is just more proof that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s military record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear. <snip> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=2&u=/usnw/20040820/pl_usnw/more_republican_ties_revealed_behind__swift_boat_vets_for_bush___says_kerry_campaign141_xml and <snip> Mr. Bush's campaign confirmed on Saturday . . . that one of the veteran in that advertisement (SBV ad #1) was a member (of) the Bush campaign's veterans' advisory committee. <snip> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22swift.html and as DU's Mayberry Machiavelli pointed out in a post: Ken Cordier was on Bush campaign staff right up until his appearance in the second Swift Boat commercial, proving that Bush campaign denials of connection with the smear campaign are disingenuous (long word for "lies"): http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swift... Du's own Skinner is doing a state-by-state search for collusion between local and state Republican committees and the SBVs in terms of rallies, links and ads on web-sites and selling of SBV materials, incl. Unfit for Command. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=649597&mesg_id=649597 such as . . . <snip> "Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National Campaign Denies Coordination, Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly denied coordinating attacks with the anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting a rally in Gainesville for the group <snip> http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.html#109303885084378264 Du's own Skinner is doing a state-by-state search for collusion between local and state Republican committees and the SBVs in terms of rallies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=649597&mesg_id=649597 And the Bush campaign even had a rally with the SBVs!!!! http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html and DU's fine posts and members . . . on the job with cameras!! Wow: Check it out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x657176 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x646015 http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040821/LOCAL/40821006/1078/news&template=printart And the Official Minnesota Republican Website links the SBV ad: <snip> Webpage "Prepared and Paid for by Republican Party of Minnesota" Found to Be Linking to the Swift Boat Ads. In Minnesota . . . an official Republican Party webpage was recently found to be linking to the Swift Boat Ads. The webpage goes on to . . . question . . . John Kerry's service in Vietnam: SWIFT VETS ARE GETTING TO KERRY; DID HE LIE ABOUT HIS SERVICE, repeatedly, in an effort to embellish it? DID HE TAKE CREDIT for engagements fought by other men . . .? The website also contains a link to purchase the book produced by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, "Unfit For Command". <snip> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=1&u=/usnw/20040823/pl_usnw/kerry_edwards__reports_detail_even_closer_ties_to_bush_campaign__no_wonder_bush_won_t_condemn_this_smear_his_campaign_is_behind Or even the right-wing affiliations (O'Neil with Charles Colson in the Nixon WH) of those making the charges as these: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x647917 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=647199&mesg_id=647199 http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml The similarity between the attack on Kerry and those on other Bush opponents, including McCain, suggests on-going and systematic collusion: <snip> "It's amazing how similar this type of attack is to the pattern of attacks I have seen over two decades -- in some cases involving Bush's campaigns, in other cases they involved campaigns in which Karl Rove was a participant,'' said Wayne Slater, senior political writer at the Dallas Morning News, who has covered Bush since his early days in Texas politics and is author of the book "Bush's Brain,'' about Rove. "In every case, the approach is the same: You have a surrogate group of allies, independent of the Bush campaign, raising questions not about the opponent's weakness but directly about the opponent's strength,'' Slater said. "In every case it works." <snip> http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/24/SWIFT.TMP |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
bloom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-24-04 04:56 PM Response to Original message |
1. they do all that and then say - "OK let's get rid of 527's" |
as if that was their plan all along.
Not "OK - let's stop the lies" - because lie is all they want to do and they don't want anyone having the means to effectivley expose them. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
brentspeak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-24-04 05:50 PM Response to Original message |
2. Deleted -- sent to your mailbox (n/t) |
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 05:52 PM by brentspeak
|
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Oct 17th 2024, 11:35 PM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC