God Help America - UK Guardian article

[Pert_UK]

"The US is at one and the same time one of the most fiercely secular and aggressively religious countries in the western world. The nation's two most sacred texts are the constitution and the Bible. And when those who interpret them disagree, the consequent confusion resonates way beyond Montgomery.

This is a country where 11 states, including Alabama, refuse to give government money to students who major in theology because it would violate the constitution, and where nativity plays are not allowed in primary schools. It is also a country where, a Harris poll showed, 94% of adults believe in God, 86% believe in miracles, 89% believe in heaven, and 73% believe in the devil and hell...

These two competing tendencies produce some striking contradictions...So while there is a constitutional, albeit contested, barrier between church and state, there is almost no distinction between church and politics...

America's religiosity is not something it shares with even its few western allies, let alone the many countries that oppose its current path. Yet another poll shows that among countries where people believe religion to be very important, America's views are closer to Pakistan's and Nigeria's than to France's or Germany's."

IMHO, I would suggest that a very large percentage of people who believe in God, miracles, God's special protection of America etc. have got very little knowledge about the subject, outside of what is said in church. Belief without knowledge is absurd - you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny if you don't think about what you believe in. IMHO, being able to quote Biblical verses is neither necessary or sufficient for being a good Christian, and in fact the dogmatic assertion of religious "truths" is one of the main problems that the US currently has.

Full piece:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1028758,00.html

[Martin Eden]

1. All of this religious belief and passion is not lost...

...on the Republicans, who have exploited it much to their poltical advantage and to the discredit of their moral character.

[blackcat77]

2. The problem starts when...

...Americans, in their typical ego and narrow-mindedness, create God in their own image.

[asjr]

3. God

Blackcat, that is a perfectly marvelous sentence. And so very true.

[Skittles]

5. I am so, so sick of religion

so sick of it

[stopbush]

4. I very much doubt those high percentiles.

IMO they're a sign of little more than America's "FIG" approach to religion:

F = Fear. It gets you into the religion. I know many people who have questions about religion and the afterlife, so they "play it safe" when it comes to belief. That's because their belief costs them little money and even less time. The possibility of Hell can make even the most rational person think twice.

I = Ignorance. It keeps you in...for a while. Just let your local preacher do your thinking for you, follow the rules, shout "Amen" on cue and you automatically have a certain level of social standing in the community. Of course, you can still screw everyone else because there's not only blanket forgiveness every Sunday, but the Bible tells you it's OK ("the poor you will always have with you...").

G = Guilt. Just when you thought you were out, they keep pulling you back in! It could be family, it could be business associates, or maybe it's that little investment bell going off in your brain (as in, I've invested years in these fairy tales, why make waves? What if it's true after all?).

If you're a fundie, they hit you with both barrels, ie: the UNFORGIVABLE SIN! Yep, they think that everything - murder, rape, adultery, illegal wars - are all forgiveable. There's only one exception - the Unforgiveable Sin, a.k.a The Sin Against the Holy Ghost. Translation: if you got the good news and were saved and you later decide it's all hogwash and want renounce your belief in a Christ, why, yer goin' straight to hell! Pretty powerful guilt trip, wouldn't you say.

[ixion]

6. very nice, stopbush

I like that. :-)

[Liberator_Rev]

8. The FACTS must be wrong because they don't fit your biases?

If you want to question surveys on the basis of have contrary evidence of a similar nature, or because you question the honesty or competence of the surveyors, then bring forth your arguments.

But if the only reason you have for saying,"I very much doubt those high percentiles" is a bias against such results, then you are operating on FAITH, not science.

So maybe
"F" stands for your Fear of being vastly outnumbered in America.
"I" stands for Ignorance of what the vast majority of your neighbors are thinking and
"G" stands for Grin and deal with it, or maybe "Graphs" as in
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Graphs , which shows what the religious demographics of America are like and how Liberals and Democrats should be inviting, converting and embracing Christians as the "Liberals Like Christ" they could be, if only they identified with Christ's Liberal teaching.

P.S. 1)Even IF the numbers were off by 20%, they would STILL mean that Republicans are a hell of a lot smarter than Democrats if Democrats continue to keep their heads in the sand and pretend that religion is none of their business.
P.S. 2) I'm not happy about the fundamentalism of America, but I would rather deal with it and try to change it than simply throw a tantrum over it.

[Liberator_Rev]

7. This should be a BOON for Democrats !

So long as Democrats are doing such a great job of following Christ's teaching
and Republicans are OPPOSED to most of what Christ taught, the religiosity of
the U.S. electorate COULD BE A BOON, if only the Democratic Party wised up
and told the public that it BELIEVES in much of what Jesus and many of the
great prophets of the Old Testament preached and is proud to have shared
and promoted many of the Bible's LIBERAL beliefs over the years !
See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Democrats


at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org .

See what Christ might say about the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" imposters.