Help, I need a history lesson! Topic: Carter caused Terrorism

[Blue_Chill]

I saw this post on a gaming forum and it strikes me as BS. Any of you history buffs out there want to help me respond?

Hello, Iran anyone? For those of you kind enough to have read my Middle East thread in full, you would note that the birthplace of Islamic Fundamentalism (the source of terrorism) was and is Iran.

And who do we have to thank for this great US foreign policy? President Jimmy carter. Yes, the man, the myth, the legend... the Nobel Peace Prize winner who demanded that the Shah of Iran step down and turn over power to the Ayatollah Khomeini.

No sir... "Step aside oh he who designed programs to improve social and economic conditions for the people of Iran, we need a tyrannt in the Middle East." Those must have been the thoughts of President Carter.... as they were certainly his actions. Never mind the fact the Shah was actually voted, and in turn gave women the right to vote in 1963, or created a system of land redistribution that gave some 1.5 million former tenant farmers their own land to work on.

It wasn't enough that Ayatollah is an absolute nutcase, Carter made sure the US Pentagon demanded the Shah's top military commanders to step aside for the lunatic. The Shah's military listened to Carter. All of them were murdered in one of the Ayatollah's first acts. Yay Jimmy!

[CrownPrinceBandar]

1. Accusations like this demand documentation to back them up...

So maybe you should return to the "gaming forum" of which you spoke and ask for some articles or quotes to back this up. Then we'll argue! hehe.

edit: i agree, is sounds like total bullsh*t

[yella_dawg]

2. Hard to debunk

because it's some of the most bizarre drivel I've seen in a while.

The Shah of Iran was installed in 1958 in a CIA guided overthrow of the elected government. The reason Iranians have a problem with Americans is because we forced the Shah on them in the first place, and they haven't forgotten that, even if we want to. As to Carter's part in kicking out the Shah and supporting Khomeini, it's ridiculous. The Iranians took over a hundred American civilian hostages to insure that we kept out of Iran during the ousting of the Shah. Carter was too human to risk civilians, even if he had choosen to interfere. Actually, the Shah ran to the US when he got kicked out of Iran.

George Bush Sr. is the American who is probably the most at fault for modern terrorism. As Vice President, through his CIA contacts, he brought in Ossama bin Laden, financed and trained his troops, and dumped huge amounts of money into the Resistance movement against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Al Quieda is probably Bush's most influential creation. Bush also supported Saddam Hussein in Iraq in his war against Iran in the 80's, and Hussein was a CIA stooge, I think, even before he became president of Iraq.

Given that Bush I was responsible for the advent of crack cocaine thanks to the CIA policy of dumping cocaine in southern California to finance Iran / Contra, he may well be a more diabolical and evil bastard than even Henry Kissinger

[Postman]

3. Thank the British and Eisenhower...

The Pahlavi family is what was known as the "Shah of Iran". They were the ones who the British could count on to do their bidding in Iran.(aka Puppet)

Seeing the great despair in his country and the in-action of the Shah to do anything about it, Prime Minister Mossadegh, popularly elected by the Iranian people, nationalized the British owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.

The British, outraged by the seizure of their oil company, persuaded Eisenhower that Mossadegh was leading Iran toward Communism. A plan was devised by the CIA to oust Mossadegh and put back into power the Shah of Iran (aka puppet)

The Shah left Iran while the CIA did its dirty work in foementing insurrection inside Iran. Mossadegh was eventually arrested after a huge propaganda campaign and the Shah returned to Iran to rule again until the Islamic Revolution took place.

With Iran in the throes of Islamic Revolution, the Shah of Iran sought refuge outside of the country. Once he landed in the US, the people of Iran took that as signal that the US was again going to intervene in Irans affairs so the US embassy in Tehran was raided and the Americans there were held hostage as an insurance policy to keep the US out.

So the allegations that Iranian/Islamic Fundamentalist "terrorism" began with Jimmy Carter is a croc of sh*t.

For more on the history of this read "All The Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzer

[mrfrapp]

5. British?

"The British, outraged by the seizure of their oil company"

I wasn't outraged, thankyou very much. The Anglo-Iranian Oil Company and certain segments of the British Government might have been, but "the British" is far too wide a brush. And to think I go to great pains to point the finger at the Bush administration specifically and correct people when they complain about "Americans".

[democracyindanger]

4. The guy's an idiot

1) If any place is the 'birthplace of Islamic Fundamentalism', it's Saudi Arabia, where the Wahabi sect was born. Wahabism is the heart and soul of islamic terrorism. He's a know-it-all who actually knows nothing.

2) The Shah wasn't 'voted'--he inherited the position from his father, Reza Shah, who was installed by the British government and oil companies after a military coup. No argument that Iran was one of the most modernized Middle Eastern countries in the 70s, but attempts to make it more *democratic* were beaten down.

Show him the picture of Saddam and Rumsfeld, and ask him if he feels the same way about Reagan and his "tyrannt (sic) in the Middle East."

[Davo Dinkum]

6. This dates back before Carter.

You could point out to your friend that perhaps there would be no Islamic revolution if the democratically elected government of Dr. Mossadegh hadn't been undermined and overthrown by the CIA in the '50's. If democracy were allowed to run it's course, the revolutionary movement that was created via protest against the Shah may not have occurred. Whilst this is a long bow to draw, if this had not occurred the rise of Islamic fundamentalism may not have occurred. It may have emerged elsewhere but it wouldn't have arisen in Iran when it did.
http://www.ce.pdx.edu/~eghtedaa/vome/1953coup.htm