Simplifying the anti-Wal-Mart position

[Bill McBlueState]

the_boxer's post in the lounge inspired this, which I thought could use its own thread...


Whenever people ask me why I don't like Wal-Mart, and why I try not to shop there, I start to explain things, but I either get interrupted after half a minute, or people get the glazed-over look.

What are some simple talking points you use to preach the anti-big-box message?

I've become fond of saying "There are more important things than low prices."

It also seems to work to point out how messy and crowded the stores are -- not crowded with people always, but with merchandise spilling off the shelves and in the middle of the aisles.

There might also be an easy point to score with the sex-discrimination lawsuits that keep coming up.

Thoughts?

[bobbieinok]

1. the 4 points for me

...put small town businesses out of business

...taking out life insurance on employees

...anti-union strongarming

...requirement that workers clock out then clean up - 'unpaid overtime'

[economic justice]

2. Paradox

Unfortunately, I try to push this line of reasoning (about some things being more important than low prices) with people who can appreciate that and that usually means people who need to shop where there are --- low prices! Very frustrating! This is a very important issue. I have fond memories of the neighborhood hardware store, book store, "dime" store on and on....all relics thanks to the "big box"......

[Qutzupalotl]

3. Shop here today--work here tomorrow.

Works for me.

[eissa]

4. My reasoning

I just try to tell people that there is a price to pay for "low prices" -- those companies can sell cheap because they pay cheap, forcing other companies that treat their employees better (and help your community in the process) out of business. All to save a few cents.

[Stephanie]

5. I just told my Dad not to shop there

When he asked me why, I searched and found this article by Jim Hightower.

http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2002-05-08/news.html

[camero]

6. some things

Unpaid overtime..

Use of illegal immigrants...

Prices are really not much lower.. but workers are treated much worse.

[KansDem]

9. "Use of illegal immigrants..."

...til the end of their shift. Then they're arrested.

[Unknown Known]

7. Tell any freepers you know who shop at WalMart

that Hillary Clinton used to be the lawyer for WalMart and then sat on the board of directors for 8 years. Jackson Stephens gave Sam Walton a large infusion of money and help WalMart start spreading across the country.

Since freeper-types are more likely to shop at WalMart, you will ruin their day by telling them that whenever they shop there, they are helping Hillary!! Watch their faces turn purple!

[Bill McBlueState]

10. that's a good one

Sadly, that kind of approach will probably do a lot more to sway most Freepers than anything else.

The reaction should be funny, though. :evilgrin:

[lapislzi]

8. I just say "labor practices"

both domestic and global. At some level, most people know "sweatshops" and "child labor" are bad things.

But I like yours about more important things than low prices. Unfortunately, I don't believe that's true for everyone.

[SanchoPanza]

11. Talking Points? Sheesh...

If you use well-researched arguments that take more than thirty seconds to voice and people start getting a "glazed-over look", my advice is not to even bother.

However if you still want to win over people who don't mind that the Walton Family is content with destroying everything and everyone in order to make a quick buck, you can start with Wal-Mart Watch's Wal of Shame. Print out a bunch and hand them out to shoppers outside one of their Mega-Plantations, even.

[Silverhair]

15. Better make DAMN sure that you aren't on their property when

you do that. Since the parking lot is HUGE, that means that you will have to get people to stop their car to take your flyer.

[mrsadm]

12. Employee lawsuits

I generally mention that there are over 40 lawsuits around the country against Walmart for their practice of forcing employees to clock out and continue working. In some cases they locked the store doors so the employees could not leave.

The Walton family has four of the top ten richest Americans. Do you want to support them getting richer and cheating their employees?

[newyawker99]

17. Hi mrsadm!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[alfredo]

13. Instead of good pay and health benefits, they teach workers how to get

public assistance, making the taxpayers pay for their food stamps, and healthcare.

[Serenity-NOW]

16. 13. Instead of good pay and health benefits, they teach workers how to get

Bingo!

Factor in public assistance and just how low are those prices? Glerp, could it be that people who don't even shop at Walmart are paying for it?

I still say there are no conservatives left when this type of corporate behavior goes unchallenged. Is Walmart a Socialist endeavor?

[blondeatlast]

18. Citation? Link? This is killer stuff, if true!

Thanks.

[Stephanie]

22. Link - Bill Moyers NOW

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript247_full.html

GRETCHEN ADAMS: The personnel office will generally keep lists for their territory, for their town-- because so many of the associates cannot afford the healthcare. So being that whenever they do have an issue or a problem that comes up and they come to the office then they-- personnel has a list of the state agencies so that we could have some place to send these associates.

SYLVIA CHASE: For Medicaid.

GRETCHEN ADAMS: For Medicaid, for, well, baby care, for whatever it is that they need.

SYLVIA CHASE: Food stamps?

GRETCHEN ADAMS: Food stamps. Yes.

SYLVIA CHASE: Jon Lehman says his Rolodex of charities and taxpayer funded services proves that managers were expected to refer employees to seek public assistance. It's policy, he says, he was taught at company headquarters.

JON LEHMAN, FORMER WAL-MART MANAGER: We were supposed to go and learn-- leadership ideas and-- you're supposed to learn how to lead. They have a session where they take you aside and teach you about these types of things as well.

SYLVIA CHASE: These types of things being?

JON LEHMAN: Well, how to direct associates. How to-- how to look into your community and take full-- advantage of the-- ministries, the civic organizations-- tax-based organizations-- subsidy-- organizations within your community that'll help workers in need. For food, clothing, indigent healthcare, whatever. Whatever needs to be.

SYLVIA CHASE: It's institutional then. This is part of the Wal-Mart culture? Is that what you're telling me?

JON LEHMAN: Of course it is. Yeah.

SYLVIA CHASE: Of course it is?

JON LEHMAN: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I mean, it-- and-- you know-- as a store manager I was-- I worked for Wal-Mart for 17 years and I didn't think it was wrong until I left.

SYLVIA CHASE: Wal-Mart refused NOW's request for an interview, But in response to written questions said "Wal-Mart does not encourage associates anywhere to apply for public assistance, nor do we hold training sessions for managers to encourage their associates to apply for public assistance." But remember Larry Allen? He says this flyer was in his Wal-Mart pay envelope. Labelled "Instructions for associates," it provides step by step instructions to employees applying for social services and lists a Web site and 1-800 number.

[Silverhair]

14. That statement means that you have the money to pay the higher prices.

Many people can't afford to pay higher prices.

[blondeatlast]

19. I've found that Target and K-Mart are only a few cents more on most items

I buy frequently, and they have cleaner stores and nicer employees (go figure--I wouldn't be nice either).

[Don Claybrook]

24. But can they afford to pay the Wal Mart prices?

That's what this thread is all about. That $1.94 item costs you, the consumer, a lot more than $1.94. You're hurting your community when you shop at Wal Mart, bringing it down, and sending your community's money out of town.

[pasadenaboy]

20. A clear conscience is worth more than a few dollars

That would be my answer.

[blondeatlast]

21. Damn straight--and it's really a few pennies.

Target has better quality, too.

[no_arbusto]

23. Ask their employees at this site

http://www.walmartsucks.com/