should moveon.org keep the Hitler ads

[mkultra]

I'm sure you've all seen the cool Hitler/bush ads on moveon.org. They took them down admitting they where in bad taste. The RNC is trying to slam moveon.org with a smear campaign over the ads(which where submissions)

My questions is.
Why should they give a damn. It occurs to me that the RNC will stoop to any level to smear a democrat from lying to spreading rumors to leaking the names of CIA agents. How much damage would it do the democrats with the middle ground folks?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

1. Its already caused damage.

There'd be no point in keeping them.

[spanone]

2. You should read the article on Moveon.ort

They explain that these were members ideas that they invited to submit an ad that purported to tell the truth about the prez and his policies. None were written by or endorsed by Moveon.org. IT'S A SMEAR BY THE DARK SIDE. Don't buy into it.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. Yes

Free speech good.

Censorship bad.

[Traje]

4. Its a fact...

... that Right-wing, neo-liberal political parties (ie. Republican, Australian Liberals) can be similar to German National Socialism. Ie. suppression of personal freedom, support of corporatism, 'personal responsibility' and similar rhetoric.

They simply dislike the comparison because people don't like being associated with Nazis, no matter how evil they are.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi Traje!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[KelleyKramer]

5. You have to go to RNC website to see it

MoveOn took it down right away.

The Republicans were so outraged that something like that would be published on the internet.. Well, they published it on the internet.

At least they are consistent in their hysterical hypocrisy.

Anyway, the only place you can see what Republicans hate about the internet, is on the Republican internet website.


But I don’t think the RNC website has any copies of the 'trading with the enemy act' documents from when the US government seized the Bush family bank in 1942 for assisting Hitler during World War II.

(And no that’s not a joke, its true)

[Cleita]

6. I guess I want MoveOn to keep operating so I suppose

taking down the ad was the smart thing to do. But, if all it was that this Hitler ad was offensive to the President, why are the Republicans so upset about it? If it was just a smear and in bad taste, it seems they should be laughing it off and calling us a bunch of pinko commies as usual. They seem to be genuinely afraid of the criticism. Way too close to the bone it seems. :evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

7. It Disappeared from the RNC Website Too

Maybe they got spooked when they noticed how many hits it was getting.

[JailForBush]

8. Hell YES they should keep it!

Sheez, I'm so SICK of the moral cowardice in this country! Democrats were a bunch of chickenshits in 2000, 2002 and 2003. If they aren't ready to fight fire with fire this time around, we really are doomed.

Not only will we lose the election, we'll lose it without a fight, proving once and for all that the Left is meaningless.

[truth2power]

17. Thank you. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[FDRrocks]

9. yes

shove it in the stupid shits face. We are owned by corporations. Corporations have had more sway than the people since shortly after the turn of the century. We are Fascism, as Il Duce described it.

It is a vicious thing we face, and we must face it dilligently. Only the fascists and thier sympatizers call us on it. We live in Corporatism, and that is Fascism. Seriously, political prudence be damned.

[MercutioATC]

10. There are better avenues. (and a sincere thatks to George Soros)

Swing voters and Reps will immediately turn off to Bush=Hitler spots. Those are the voters we need. More moderate ads with emotional appeal will make much more of an impact, IMHO.

I really think they should air the "He Can't Do That" ad, but I'll be happy with whatever truths they can tell about Bush.

[rman]

11. "we don't need Hitler, we've already got Bush" - M Moore

the core of the issue is Bush's bad policies, not the fact that these policies make him look like Hitler - in the absence of Hitler they'd still bad policies.

[Nlighten1]

12. Yes

Call a spade a spade.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lost4words]

14. YES n/t

[GiovanniC]

15. Sorry, but Bush �‚ Hitler

Title should be Bush != Hitler.

At least, not yet. And don't get me wrong, I dislike Bush with a passion.

But to me, these claims that Bush is the same as Hitler are similar to people who liken having their house broken into to rape.

You know, some stranger breaks into their house, goes through some of their things, grabs some jewelry, the DVD player, whatever... and then you hear that person say, "It was such a violation -- it's just like being raped." Bullsh*t, it is not. I've been the victim of burglary before, and I'd much rather have someone steal my stereo than for anyone to actually get raped.

There are some policies and attitudes that are very similar to fascist/Nazi/Hitler type stuff. The propoganda, the invasion of other countries... these aren't small things. But the big thing that everyone thinks of when you drop the Hitler-bomb on them is the holocaust. Bush has not done this yet, and while I have a bad taste in my mouth for even this half-hearted defense of him, I think it really hurts our cause by comparing Bush to Hitler.

Just as the burglary victim comparing having their television stolen to the horror of a savage sexual attack degrades and demeans the seriousness of rape... the claim that Bush is equal to Hitler degrades and demeans the evils that Hitler perpetrated.

Bush, while evil (or, more accurately I believe, controlled by evil people), is no Hitler. To suggest otherwise diminishes our credibility.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. truth is always a HARD SWALLOW...and this hitle/bush ad is a choker

[GabysPoppy]

19. What some people have to understand

First let me say that I detest, loathe, abhor and hate the resident with every part of me. I am also not going to dispute most of the posts I have seen in this thread or in previous threads on the same topic. The historical comparisons are real and not disputed.

Now that I have said that, you have to understand when the name of Hitler is invoked, what comes to the mind of most people are NOT those historical facts. What comes to mind are all the horrors of the holocaust. From the ovens to the gas chambers. From human beings converted into lamp shades and bars of soap. From numbers tattooed on peoples arms to grotesque medical experiments on live human beings who have not been put under with ether.

So when an ad appears comparing *Bush with Hitler, the historical similarities are not what people see. The vision in people's minds are ovens and crematoriums. If you think you are going to win the hearts and mind of moderate Republicans or undecided voters with that type of rhetoric you are sadly mistaken.

This is not just shooting ourselves in the foot my friends, this is mass suicide for the Democratic Party.

[Ksec]

20. Yes, by dumping them they admit they werent accurate

and anyone with half a brain can see what hes doing mirrors what the nazis did in Germany in the opening stages.

[GiovanniC]

21. Most People

Don't have a f***ing clue what Hitler did "in the opening stages". Most people know this about Hitler:

(1) He was somehow involved in WW2.
(2) He murdered millions of Jews in concentration camps.
(3) I think he was, maybe, German or something.
(4) THE END.

Your average John or Jane Doe does not grasp the subtle nuances of Hitler's uses of propoganda, his probable involvement in the Reichstag and the enormous power that gave him, et cetera. So they're NOT GOING TO GET IT. They're just hearing the constant comparison that Bush=Hitler, and that's just not an accurate analogy, at least not yet.

[bloom]

22. I agree - if there are going to be ads...

they need to bring people into seeing the comparisons - not try to hit them over the head with it.

Otherwise - people won't get it. The accusations will just piss people off.

[RealAngoraFlora]

23. Only if they have the gas chambers and ovens to back it up

Otherwise it is an insult to the real tragedy the Jews suffered.