Can the British Labour party be saved?

[T_i_B]

I ask this after seeing this site. Make of this what you will.

http://www.savethelabourparty.org/

1. The Labour Party faces a crisis that threatens its very existence. Membership is in decline, activity is at an all time low and in March 2003 139 Labour backbenchers rebelled against the Government's Iraq policy - the largest Parliamentary revolt against an incumbent government for a century.

2. The crisis over British participation in the Iraq war, in the absence of a specific UN resolution, is however only the latest instance of questions within the Party over its basic aims, values and Party democracy. A chasm has opened between the Government and the Party over policies that have not emerged from a democratic process.

3. Thousands of members have already left the Party. Constituency organisations around the country risk becoming empty shells and trades unions are reviewing their affiliations. The Party faces a serious financial deficit and a lack of activists working in election campaigns.

4. Ordinary members have said that they no longer feel that Labour is their party and that they are excluded from Party decision-making processes. Many consider that the "New Labour" Leadership is more comfortable with power, wealth and celebrity than it is with ordinary people. Many Party members feel that "New Labour" has accepted the Tory agenda on fundamental issues.

5. There is a growing fear that, at the next general election, there will be two right of centre parties competing for government. We believe that there needs to be a clear dividing line between the policies of a Labour Government and those of the Tories. "New Labour" has opened itself to the very charges of elitism, cronyism and secrecy which alienate potential voters It is scarcely surprising that disenchantment amongst the electorate, particularly the young, is increasing.

[rogerashton]

1. And yet the Tories are in no less difficulty.

All that, and out of power too.

That may point up some insights about our so-called 50-50 split here in the US. It's not that 45% of the population love the Pukes -- but they hate "liberals" so much that (if they bother voting) they will vote for the party that opposes Democrats and liberals. And conversely. Small-d democracy is in big trouble here and there alike.

[T_i_B]

3. Yep

It always makes me laugh when Blair supporters try the old vote for us or it's the tories line as

1) The tories have zero chance of overturning Blair's landslide majority
2) To all intents & purposes, Blair IS a tory.

However, that very landslide majority has not been producing good government from Tony Blair & co for some time. "new" labour has become utterly arrogant and out of touch and some of us are getting fed up with it.

The best we can hope for really is the Liberal Democrats I'm afraid.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

4. Here's what you do. Bear with me a minute.

Whenever we were in a band with a member you didn't like, but couldn't bring ourselves to confromt and fire, we'd split the band up and reform immediately without him. So, logically, all you need to do is get everyone to secede from the UK, and reform another political structure without Tony. Alternatively, you England, Scotland and Wales can secede and leave New Labour in charge of Northern Ireland, which no one in their right mind wants anyhow. It's perfectly simple.

[T_i_B]

6. Or alternatively...

...all the people left in "new" labour who actually belive in Labour values leave the party and join the Liberal Democrats.

[David__77]

2. It's a very centralized structure.

It would take a skilled effort to dislodge the neoconservatives running it. There are many good people in it, but the central leadership of against the party's working class historical orientation. The unions must play a role in taking back the party, along with other allied groups. It's worth saving--I don't see an alternative that's credible.

[durutti]

5. Labour no longer represents British workers.

Vote for the Socialist Alliance, the Scottish Socialist Party, the Social Democratic and Labour Party, or Sinn Fein instead.

[Jen72]

8. OK but

I am not a Socialist, I am Left of Centre, I am not Northern Irish or Scottish either. (Sinn Fein and the Scottish Parties are not on the
ballot outside NI or Scotland.)
I would consider Lib Dem's because if they became the offical opposition, the Tory party will be truely died.
I am not convinced the Tony Blair will stand for re-election or even last this year.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Dump Blair!

Or better still, join the Liberal Democrats!

[Spentastic]

9. No

The Labour party and its ideals have been entirely corrupted by the "Third way".

Firstly I'll admit I'm still in awe of the organisation and skill of the perpertrators of this scheme. The Blair, Brown , Mandelson, Cunnigham alliance pulled an absolute masterstroke. If all this energy could have been channelled positively I'm sure New Labour would have been a roaring success. Unfortunately, they turned into a bunch of fucking corporate sellouts. In Mandelson's case a dishonest lying creepy horrible little egocentric motherfucker (I don't like him very much).

By promising electability certain key Labour values (public ownership, Labour protection) were sacrificed, it is my firm belief lost forever. Mandelson et al embarked on a campaign of focus group led politics. What the public wanted, the public were promised (not necessarily given). Dissenters were essentially marginalised and central control of the party consolidated. An inner circle of Blairites ensured that Tony himself was never under threat. Unfortunately, this appears to have fed Tony's egomania and he now is acting exactly like Thatcher used to. He's facing down his own party in part just because he can. Genuine concerns about "top up fees" are met with "like it or lump it". WMD criticism is dismissed as trouble making.

The writing was on the wall as soon as New Labour embraced PFI. This was tantamount to pulling the publics pants down so the private sector could butt fuck them. Further idiocy in the form of tuition fees and foundation hospitals are clear signals of intent. The debt burden in the U.K for the next generation will be massive. The only people to be enriched will be those at the top of the PFI pyramid schemes. New Labour is a corporatists wet dream.

True Labourites are laughed at by the new party and the media. Tam Dalyell who spoke out so fervently against Blair's idiotic following of Bush to war is what Labour used to be about. His voice is forgotten. With the current crew in charge there is in effect nothing worth saving. Labour sold its soul to get elected. Now it's there it's acting like the Tories.

Beware the third way.

[Mairead]

10. Nice summary!

I'd only object to 'turned into a bunch of fucking corporate sellouts' because that makes it sound as though they weren't in bed with the wealthy elites from the off, just like the flipping Clintons.

'New Labour' should really be called 'New Tories', just as 'New Democrats' should really be called 'New Republicans'. That neither is, is simply another case of deceitful labeling along the historical lines of psychopathic thugs recogising that 'Peaceful Socialist Democrats' has much more appeal than 'Vicious Kleptocratic Loonies'.

[Spentastic]

13. You may be right

However, the blatant pro elite bias has only been allowed to come to the fore in the past year or two.

Got a minister that criticises GM foods as unsafe? Sack him and commission a study headed by a prop GM man.

University fees - Double the number of students and the debt they will carry. What a brilliant way to increase standards.

PFI - Privatising the trains didn't work so well. Labour will now attempt to prove it doesn't work by following the same model for the tube. Brilliant.

Hunting - Promise to ban it. Then bottle it because some of their toff mates enjoy killing foxes.

War - Wanted one and got one. I hate Blair for this. He legitimised the little turd's adventure.

[Mairead]

16. I'd have said it was there all along

the marker being Blair's happily continuing the Tory sell-off policies.

A woman I know eventually had to leave a clubby sort of newsgroup because she persisted in pointing out the rightward movement to people who didn't want to know. She talked me into reading some of it and I was appalled. Those people --30-ish Britons in the high-tech industry with no experience of any government but Tories or New 'Labour'-- bemoan the privatisation, fees increases, strangling of the NHS, safety-net shredding, etc but angrily refuse to make the connection between their personal politics and the degradation. To them, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with New Labour at all. They might criticise the spin Blair and his ministers put out on this issue or that, but it's really only a surface discontent; at a deeper level, they accept it all at face value.

[Spentastic]

20. Now this is true

"Those people --30-ish Britons in the high-tech industry with no experience of any government but Tories or New 'Labour'-- bemoan the privatisation, fees increases, strangling of the NHS, safety-net shredding"

I'm a 30ish New Labour hater. Fortunately for me, I didn't trust him or his ideas. Unfortunately, the fear of Thatcher led many people to give up their principle. The fear still exists and 30 somethings will not dare oppose Tony because Howard may get in. There is effectively no choice, I vote Lib Dem but the perception is that this is a wasted vote.

I honestly believe that for this generation the fight is lost. You're right most people have no idea that things could be different. We have a moribund parliamentary institution that serves only the status quo.

[Loonman]

11. Dump Tony

Labour will come back.

[Mairead]

12. "There is a growing fear..."

Which is exactly the position we find ourselves in here in the US, too. There are 2 right-wing parties, and we're told to think of that is representing the full spectrum of political views. It's total pants.

[rman]

14. if they dump the LINO's and explain to the electorate

then maybe. (LINO = Labour In Name Only)
New Labour is out, "Labour" is in.

[BiggJawn]

15. Never mind Labour, what about US????

Tony the Poodle made his bed, now he needs to lay in it.
Understand this is big for you, but since I'm not in Britain (thankfully or otherwise) I have other fish to fry.

But...If it gets too bad over there, you COULD come back here....:7

[T_i_B]

17. The Blairites have a present for you

Meet the BLAIR DEMOCRATS!!! :puke: There is ya relevency

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=127&subsecID=171&contentID=251557

[BiggJawn]

18. Not a front-runner in the bunch...

Honestly, if our party nominates a ReTHUG-lite like Lieberman, then we WILL get the kind of government we deserve....

Still a scary thought, though....

[T_i_B]

19. The article does claim thay are

Although the article paints a very different picture to what I keep hearing now.

After all, four of the leading Democratic presidential contenders -- Rep. Dick Gephardt and Sens. Joseph Lieberman, John Kerry and John Edwards -- not only voted to support the war but also joined British Prime Minister Tony Blair in demanding that Bush challenge the United Nations to live up to its responsibilities to disarm Iraq. This position put these "Blair Democrats" in sync with the vast majority of Americans who said they would much rather attack Saddam Hussein's regime with United Nations backing than without it. And it puts them at odds with what Kerry called the "blustery unilateralism" of the president, which combined with French obstructionism to rupture not only the United Nations but the Atlantic alliance as well.

Just as the swift liberation of Iraq has strengthened the Blair Democrats, it has weakened the party's antiwar contingent, whose worst fears failed to materialize. The outcome deals a near-fatal blow to the presidential prospects of Howard Dean, whose staunch opposition to the war thrilled Iowa's left-leaning activists but is out of step with rank-and-file Democrats, about two-thirds of whom approve of the war.