Anyone willing to reconsider AIDS?

[Must_B_Free]

At a point where we have seen how the far right will deceive and mislead to "coincidentally" acheive their ojectives, one has to reconsider what we have been led to perceive.

1. The disease targets Blacks and Homosexuals - the people Neocons fear most. It is ethnically cleansing the earth to the Eugenicists preferences.

2. They aren't helping get rid of it. They have cut aid to get rid of it

3. It has spread disproportionately in Africa. For example, given the gestation peoiod before an exposed person can spread it to someone else, not as many people as have the disease could have caught it by natural means.

4. PNAC documents talk about weapons targeting specific genes with new biological weapons and how this would be a "useful political tool".

So is AIDS LIHOP, MIHOP, GIHOC (glad it happened on chance), or do the neocons really care about saving the lives of the africans with AIDS? Is this just a modern smallpox blanket to solve a "problem" for the neocons?

[Bertha Venation]

1. "PNAC documents talk about" -- WHICH PNAC docs?

Please link. I want to read where PNAC wants to use AIDS as a biological weapon.

Or have I misread this point?

[Must_B_Free]

4. Here:

"And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

-- from "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September, 2000.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
p72, end of 2nd paragraph

[Occulus]

5. What they say in RAD

in Rebuilding America's Defenses, the PNAC's flagship mission statement/"diabolical plan" warns us that other nations may become able to develop bioweapons targeting specific genomes. They don't claim that it's their desire to do so.

That said, they also refer to American military supremacy being an unattainable goal absent a catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a modern-day Pearl Harbor (almost direct quote, too... see page 51 of the PDF).

They say a lot of things in that document. It's been referred to as a plan by people far more astute than I. And it appears the * maladministration is following it perfectly.

edit: ya beat me to it, Must_B. My TV card is open too heheh....

[Must_B_Free]

8. True, I may have interpreted it out of context

The paragraph seems to say that warfare in general will go in those directions.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. You are correct...

about that interpretation. The genotype remark was said within the context of an entire paragragh on the transformation of warfare, and how it applies to us as well as "enemies". Here is the exact quote:

"And advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare fromm the realm of terror to a place of political usefulness."

Reading that quote, especially within the conext of the entire report (which I just dod yesterday, all 90 pages), you can only come to the conclusion that they see the potential value in such a thing happening.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

17. Not true...

"That said, they also refer to American military supremacy being an unattainable goal absent a catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a modern-day Pearl Harbor (almost direct quote, too... see page 51 of the PDF)."

Quote:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, IS LIKELY TO BE A LONG ONE (my caps), absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Peral Harbor."

[Cannikin]

2. A very valid point I've always wondered about...

One of those tin foil hat things...but thats the beauty of it. Who'd believe it? (rhetorical)

[Caution]

3. sorry, no i dont buy AIDS being used as a tool of genocide

AIDS is spreading rapidly in Africa due to poor medical infrastructure and even poorer education.

[Cannikin]

6. Africa could become valuable real estate for PNAC

[seemslikeadream]

15. Congo already is

War in Congo has claimed over three million lives since 1998 alone. Innocent civilians have been brutalized, massacred, raped and tortured by all parties to the conflict. It began with the US sponsored invasion of Rwanda in 1994, and followed with two subsequent US sponsored invasions of Congo (in 1996 and 1998). These are not the simple "civil wars" declared by the western press. Even the Rwanda "genocide" (in 1994) has to some extent been manufactured in the American mind to serve the mythology of tribalism. Meanwhile, American green berets and military advisor's and Pentagon officials have participated from blackboard to battlefield.

Sierra Leone, Angola, Sudan, Rwanda and Congo are wars where factions are armed with US made weapons (M16, SAMS, tanks) where US covert forces undertake brutal secret missions and psychological operations accountable to no one behind the headlines. They are wars where the CIA is deeply and maliciously entrenched i subverting democracy and orchestrating chaos that is expediently advertised ans such by our dubious media. At the roots, however, these are wars like any other war.

Essential to the superalloys and weaponry of the global economy of war are Congo's cobalt, uranium and columbium tantalite (coltan). Colbalt is elemental to nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons, tank armor, industrial furnaces and aerospace and for 50 years the CIA has insured the free flow of cobalt out of Congo. The human devastation in poverty, disease, torture and massacres is uncountable.
http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/WorldNews/48471/3/collapsed/5/o/1

[Must_B_Free]

7. So that means it was not intentional?

A successul attack only needs to exploit the weakness of the target.

Weren't smallpox blankets knowing used against native Americans in the same manner, and by your logic, wouldn't you say the same thing about that?

[liberalhistorian]

12. Exactly, and I've always believed

that, while AIDS may not have been intentionally started, it was certainly allowed to flourish for political and cultural reasons (look who was in power when it first appeared in noticeable numbers), and none of the things that could have prevented, stopped, or slowed its spreading were done. The CDC's budget was even CUT, for Christ's sake!

Even now, people in power don't give a shit about AIDS in Africa or its devastating consequences, the victims aren't white, Christian, and conservative, so they don't care if it kills millions and leaves millions of orphans in its wake.

[Maeve]

9. Another possible reason for the spread

See this article in the latest Discover magazine:
http://www.discover.com/issues/feb-04/features/why-aids-worse-in-africa/

[Must_B_Free]

10. registration required

can you summarize the gist of the article?

[Maeve]

14. Sorry, didn't see that

Read the article in the magazine earlier this week....

The basic premise is that there is a difference in African sexual behavior in that there is a greater prevelence of multiple on-going relationships. This, combined with the higher rate of passing on the virus early in the infection means that it spreads quickly across the web of relationships. A support for this theory is that the "zero grazing" campaign in Uganda during the 80's and 90's resulted in a drop in HIV infection from 18% in 1993 to 6% today. It was also noted that Uganda's woman's movement (one of the oldest and most activist in Africa) contributed strongly to the change.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Agreed

It's BS hateful rhetoric to suggest AIDs was created as a weapon. No one is suggesting SARS, which has equally come completely out of nowhere, was a genetically engineered disease designed to kill off Asians. Personally, I'd rather see money spent towards cancer research.

[Blue_Chill]

11. Do you have any medical/scientific evidence?

Unless you do.....

[camero]

18. May not be intentional but it could possibly be

The US has been working on bioweapons for a long time and AIDS might be one of them.

There is a book out on it. Look here.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=105

Also here: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=106

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Given the CIA had an interest in weaponizing monkey viruses

it's at the very least a valid line of inquiry. I haven't formed an opinion, I haven't read enough. Though I've placed an order for "Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus" by Edward Haslam, so I hope to inform myself.

The book digs in to something Jim Garrison discovered: that David Ferrie was involved in an "underground" lab run by cancer researcher Mary Sherman, the purpose of which was to experiment with monkey viruses in an effort to develop a biological weapon against Castro.
Sherman died brutally in an unsolved murder in 1964 (multiple knife wounds and set on fire).

And see this incomplete list of US government secret medical programs, including experiments upon its own citizens here: http://political-resources.com/misc/govlies.htm We're not dealing in science fiction when we ask this question. The only barrier is, what would be beyond these people?

Some relevant entries:

1969
Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970
Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975
The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1985
According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986
According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences(83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

[PVnRT]

22. It's *possible* that HIV is man-made

The U.S. government (and, let's be fair, the Soviets and some others) spent lots of money up until the early 1990's researching biological warfare. If it is man-made, though, I think that it is most likely some kind of accidental release or a mutation, as it kills everybody who is infected with it. And if it were released on purpose, why did it appear in Africa first (I think that's where it appeared first, anyway)?

[PVnRT]

20. Amendment to number one on your list

The disease does not "target" anyone, it is an equal-opportunity killer. It does spread more among homeosexuals and Blacks, but to say it "targets" them implies that it somehow is genetically predisposed to do so.

Frankly, I think they don't care, they have bought into it being "fag cancer" or some kind of disease of immorality, and they figure that anyone who gets it probably deserves it. They would rather spend the money on the military rather than helping sick people, whether in Africa or here in the U.S.

[wuushew]

21. PNAC is not involved in this

If AIDS was developed by PNAC then the fate of Israeli Ethiopian Jews would be at stake. Would PNAC really risk ethnic cleansing members of their own population?

[TeeYiYi]

23. Nope. I still don't want it. ;-) But seriously . . .

I fear that there is no good answer for AIDS. And I've watched too many of my close friends die horrible, painful, wasting deaths from it to be cavalier about this subject. I'm no scientist but the only way that I can see to eradicate AIDS is to let it die out naturally. The only way to do that would be to separate the people who have it from the people who don't. And control reproduction so that it cannot be passed on. I know, I know. Like the leper colonies? Sort of but more like how Australia was used to separate criminals from society. Only in this case, the people with AIDS are not criminals and there wouldn't be the stigma. People without AIDS could live with their positive family members if they wanted but not vice versa. There has to be a continent available somewhere that would be appealing for the positive people to want to live there. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons to slam my suggestion but I just don't think there is an answer otherwise. If someone knows of a cure for AIDS please feel free to enlighten me.

TYY

[DrBB]

24. As the parent of an HIV-positive daughter

...I regard this as unhelpful and bordering on offensive. I can't stop people from indulging in this kind of speculation but I think it tends to marginalize the whole issue.

I'll say one thing: epidemiologists have identified a couple of probable AIDS cases as early as the 50s. Way too early for it to have been engineered.

[BigDaddyLove]

25. Were not the PNAC documents you speak of written........

in or around 1997?

Weren't the first few cases of AIDS in the early 80's?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. The PNAC document that spoke of...

targeting genotypes was written in Septemer of 2000.

[TrogL]

27. AIDS is not genotype specific

The disease does not target blacks and homosexuals. Anybody can get AIDS. AIDS spread first through the gay community because at the time it wasn't practicing safe sex. Other STD's were also rampant. It spread through the black community in North American because the black community, due to economic disadvantage, tended towards intravenous drug use with unsafe needles. Other blood-borne diseases eg. various kinds of Hepatitis were also spreading. In both cases the spread of AIDS was caused by a pre-existing problem - unsafe sex and dirty needles.

You're making it sound like it targetted a genetic difference eg. amount of melanin (sp?) or the fabled "gay gene" (which hasn't actually been found).

Certainly the BFEE/RRR/VRWC is causing severe harm with its faith-based, abstinence-only policies but that's affecting more than just AIDS.

given the gestation peoiod before an exposed person can spread it to someone else, not as many people as have the disease could have caught it by natural means

Is this documented somewhere? AIDS is easy to catch. I was at a hospital and happened to contact some blood (a drunk got beat up and used the phone while still bleeding) and went immediately to tell two nurses and they dropped everything they were doing to help me clean up and arrange for an AIDS test (after the gestation period).

I can certainly support AIDS GIHOC (probably should be GIHBC "BY Chance") but the other two are nonsense.

[maveric]

28. AIDS just happen to surface in 81 when the Reagan era began.

Blacks,Homosexuals,IV Drug Users, Prostitutes... All those despised by the religous right.
I always have, and still do feel that AIDS is a manufactured virus set loose to rid the world of the "undesireables".