God, Country, Patriotism and Old-Fashioned Morality

[bluestateguy]

These are the things that we need for the Democratic Party to stand for if we are to win in November. God, Country, Patriotism and Old-Fashioned Morality. We need to be fully in tune with the culture not only of Holloywood, San Francisco and Manhattan, but also places like Branson, Missouri, Greenville, South Carolina and Fort Collins, Colorado. I am a blue state guy, but we need some red state guys to win in November.

God.

Democrats must not be perceived as being hostile to religious Americans. I have always argued that Democrats need to do a better job at explicitly linking liberal principles of governance to Biblical principles. They should do so in their rhetoric and public appeals. There is nothing "Christian" about lowering taxes for the wealthy and starving programs for those in need.

Counnty.

Celebrate the diversity of the nation, but don't assault the values of those who live in the heartland of the country. Respect the rights of people to own firearms. Realize that people in rural Tennessee just don't see guns the same way as people in Boston. Respect the popular culture of the American Heartland, not just the popular culture of California and New York City. Celebrate the America of State Fairs, Parades, NASCAR

Patriotism.

Don't mock this concept, but don't let the other side hijack it either. Stress that patriotism is about more than singing songs, and waving flags, though having said that, don't mock people who do those things. Patriotism must be about the right of a people to openly disagree with their leaders, and if need be to say things that might not be very popular. Martin Luther King and Barry Goldwater were both great patriots because they said things that were unpopular.

Old-Fashioned Morality.

This need not mean the America of Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best. It means showing Americans that you have a clear sense of what is right and wrong. No in between. The gay issue could cost the Democrats some votes, but the other side can lose votes too if they are seen as demagogic and hateful. Stress inclusion, backed my a strong moral code.

[brainwashed_youth]

1. i think you have a point...

but I'm not so sure that Barry Goldwater was a great patriot

[TreasonousBastard]

4. You might want to rethink that.

Goldwater was an Old School conservative, and tough to pin down by today's standards. We had a thread or two about him here recently.

Goldwater held beliefs we may not agree with, and his John Birch ties were not exactly commendable, but he was a man of honor, decency, and honesty that we don't see that much of any more. No one back then would ever question his loyalty or sense of service to his country.

He was the opposition, and I remember when we fought against him to the bitter end, which we ultimately won. We questioned his vision and his ideas, but never questioned his principles. He was an opponent to be respected, not despised.

[Goldmund]

2. Does the voter in Mississippi wonder about what will appeal...

...to the voter in New York city as much as vice versa?

It's not about territorial differences, although they admittedly do exist. But we can't just be pandering to the most reactionary layers of our society -- whether we associate them with certain geographic areas or not. If we did that, we'd still have slaves -- that is, if we ever made it out of the caves.

[Pillowbiter]

5. pandering to reactionaries

unfortunately those reactionaries in the great flyover have more vote clout than 10 people in a costal city because of the electoral college.

They have a right to display confederate flags, even though I personally think that is more treasonous than sporting an "I heart Saddam" button.

PB

[Bertha Venation]

3. Democrats ARE religious Americans.

"Democrats must not be perceived as being hostile to religious Americans." ?? We ARE religious Americans. Republicans are not the only ones at worship on the weekends.

"I have always argued that Democrats need to do a better job at explicitly linking liberal principles of governance to Biblical principles." What in the world for? We're not founded on biblical principles. Not everyone believes in the bible or holds to biblical principles.

"Celebrate the diversity of the nation, but don't assault the values of those who live in the heartland of the country." My marriage assaults no one's values, but damned if people keep feeling their fragile sensibilities assaulted by it. So the hell with this.

"Stress inclusion, backed my a strong moral code." Many Republicans don't believe Democrats have any moral code whatsoever. That seems to raise a problem. And many Republicans DAMN sure don't want inclusion.

[KG]

6. the 'gay issue' is a morality issue?

edit - which gay issue? and why does it fall under 'old fashioned morality'?

[Selwynn]

9. I read that as:

the "issue(s)" of gay rights, equality and acceptance, and I see the affirmation of those things as a moral stand. The term "old fashioned" morality has no meaning for me, but regardless of that, I believe that standing up boldly for the right and dignity that gay men and woman - as well as all Americans - deserve is at the heart of a healthy moral center.

[LeahMira]

19. Sure is!

the 'gay issue' is a morality issue?

It's immoral to marginalize any group of people and treat them differently from the rest of the population... unless they have done something wrong.

People who are gay have not, at a group, done anything wrong. Individually, they probably miss the mark as often as the rest of us do, but there is absolutely no reason to write laws that forbid them from doing something that every other citizen of the nation is permitted to do. In fact, there is asolutely no reason to write laws that forbid people who are homosexual from doing anything in the exact same way that every other citizen of the nation is permitted to do it. That means no special "civil unions" that are just for people who are homosexual. If other citizens can get "married" provided they are the right age and fill out all the appropriate papers, etc., then people who are homosexual have a right to get married also.

Causeless hatred is immoral. Always was... still is.

[OneBlueSky]

7. yeah, it's all in how you market yourself . . .

every one of those issues, if probed deeply and honestly, is as phony as the day is long . . . but saying that won't win us any elections, so we have to play the game, say the right words, and pander to the lowest common denominators . . . prostitution in the political arena may be ugly, but it's also a fact of life . . .

[Selwynn]

8. You are 100% right, I believe

Well said.

[DrWeird]

10. Fuck that shit.

Blah blah morals blah blah gays will cost us votes blah blah blah interracial marriage is immoral blah blah blah.

Fuck homophobes, fuck these so called morals, and fuck christians who think that just because there's a verse in the Bible that condemns homosexuality then it's moral for them to be a bigot.

It's the twenty first fucking century.

[Cannikin]

11. Well f@#$%ing said! hehe

I cant prove I was born this way, but I was. And no amount of preaching or therapy can change it. Its going to be up to conservatives to cast off their ignorance and bigotry.

[Goldmund]

12. And even if you weren't born that way,

what difference does it make? "I was born that way" sounds like making excuses, like "I can't help it.". But you're doing nothing wrong, so why do you need to justify yourself at all? What does it matter if you were born that way or not?

[Cleita]

16. We were all "born that way".

Morality is the invention of the ruling class to keep the peasants in line. They never practiced their own moral teachings incidentally. Nothing has changed. Real morality is humanity caring for each other and the planet that gives them life.

[Selwynn]

13. Way to not even read.

[DrWeird]

17. I read it.

I also read between the lines.

[dawn]

18. Yes!

I hear ya! Morality can be very subjective.

I'd like to hear one of our guys say that....you know, find your own path in life. Let's accept one another...that's the real moral thing to do.

[Cleita]

14. Old-Fashioned Morality?

This translates to "Family Values" to me which translates to the cookie baking little woman, who knows her place in the home.

NO THANKS!!! What we need is real morality where everyone is equal.

[cthrumatrix]

15. THIS is all BS - let's not get roped into God- Gays - Guns ....Rove Ploy

It's all election BS -- you can't a word that shrub says -- this is election "rhetoric for the sheeple" --- you can't legislate morality

[davidinalameda]

20. the gay issue?

people were saying the same thing 40 and 50 years ago about the "colored" issue as well

thank God we have leaders in this party, Wes Clark included, who don't see any problem with including gay people in the promise of this country.

and there are people in rural Tennessee and Mississippi that are concerned about the gay issue

I grew up in West Virginia. I know I wasn't the only gay person there.

[Terwilliger]

21. what the hell is old-fashioned morality?

Was that like the Crusades? Spanish Inquistion? McCarthyism?

[Terwilliger]

22. what the hell is old-fashioned morality?

a disingenuous meme, perhaps?