Zero taxes

[mkultra]

After a few debates with my nazi like neocon friends(don't ask), Ive been struck by a couple of ideas that just seem crazy. So i said to myself "self, the DU people can help confirm your insanity." Thus, here i am.
So heres what I'm wondering. Have there been any studies done, analysis written, proof or disproof of the following theory.

Given the natural fluctuations in a free market, where supply and demand dictate everything from the cost of goods to the salaries of employees, if all taxes or even just income taxes where eliminated, would salaries drop as the worker market could bare less. We all know that companies will charge the maximum they think the market could bare and i believe they also pay the least that the workforce can bare. Thus making the rationale of lowering taxes irrelevant.

So , help me out. any resources on this or maybe just your opinions.
***dawns fire retardant outerwear***
lets have it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Well, maybe,

but then our sewers, water treatment, water supply, national defense, perosnal safety (fire dept. and police), security, national parks, judicial system, would all go to shit, since there would be no money coming in to pay for any of it.

I love the idea of no taxes, but I'm not willing to go back to an anarchic kind of pioneer-day lifestyle of living off the hand and relying on myself to defend myself against criminals and yada yada yada you get the picture.

[Serenity-NOW]

4. I've gotten used to schools, police/fire and paved roads...

Course I'm not at all pleased with what's happening with our tax dollars right now.

[leftyandproud]

5. I don't think the freeps have a problem with local taxes

its the fed taxes they are concerned with...they want to cut everything at the federal level except the courts and military.

[salin]

12. they hate local taxes.

screaming about them here - even if we end up losing basic ambulance service. But they are also quick to complain when there are potholes on the road to their home.

[ComerPerro]

14. Oh, trust me, they have huge problems with local taxes

These jerkoffs bitch and complain about public schools, but won't vote for a 0.5% sales tax increase to fund education. They won't vote a tax increase for fire departments, emergency response, or police either.

And they have the nerve to say that, in a "free market" with "no taxes" they would be charitable. BULLSHIT. They are greedy assholes.

[lostnfound]

9. Really? Wow, I'd LOVE it if we can have some of those here in Houston!!

I've noticed recently how few murders seem to get solved in this town, and the roads are in some places, an agony to drive over.

;-)

[Yupster]

2. Don't get the tie in?

Why would my company care, or base decisions on how much tax I pay?

[BlueJazz]

3. As Rabrrrrrr says, Our infrastructure would suffer greatly but

on the other hand I DO support the idea that no taxes should be taken out until the person has reached the poverty level...I
think it's about 14 grand.

I know a lot of people resent that idea because "They're not doing their fair share of the tax burden"
Fine, I say then change the system and our priorities so folks don't have to work for poverty wages.

[Robin Hood]

6. Salaries would plummet to zero

Since the already deteorating infrastructure would be make it impossible to reach your job. Paying taxes is part of living in a civilized society. I do not want to live in a world where I have to step over corpses on my walk in to work or the grocery store.

[demolifer2004]

7. Agree

It would be impossible to reduce taxes to zero. Even the repubs don't advocate such a losing position. The trouble comes in agreeing on how much to tax and who to tax.

[arewethereyet]

8. not that its relevant but, yes they would

people would need to have money to pay for private roads, fire aid, private schools, retirement etc.

[markses]

10. Money presupposes Taxation

A basic idea that is lost on the ideologues of capitalism. Because they're stupid. Under the impression that any old social agreement can insure the solidity of a universal equivalent, they fail to notice that the state form is little more than an insurance policy on that solidity. If there were no taxes, there would be no money.

[wuushew]

19. Conservatives also push for a return to the gold standard

which of course is absurd in this day and age. That is their solution however.

[sweetheart]

11. taxes is not the issue, its called "class war"

The theory that reducing taxes below their existing rates creates more economic incentive and thus more output is questionable at best.

Your question veils the marxist issue that must ask who has the right to retain all the profits when increasingly the value provided by a single person is dependent on a massive public support network, as well as fellow employees.

One one side of the battle, the oligarchs, the hard core trusts just like in teddy roosevelt's time... and on the other side, labour, increasingly unorganized and screwed by the lack of collective bargaining power.

It is the israeli bulldozer scenario, taxes or not... and the labour force will be squeezed and made homeless with ruthless efficiency by the trusts no matter what taxes are made.

By couching the argument as one of taxes, the trusts hope to dupe labour in to going along with the foggy thinking. Its bullshit. Labour has only one course of action, political class war against those who injustly abuse a corporate system to defraud and disenfranchise their fellow citizens from basic civil rights.

[salin]

13. Funny discussion on local call-in show (conservative) a few years ago

folks wanted to end the postal service and rely on private companies that they claim were so more "efficient". Even the republican radio-guy laughed at the callers - asked how much a basic letter cost to send via fed ex or ups... then asked if the companies would serve rural areas - where volume wouldn't pay for itself - or if it would be okay for letters being sent to and from those locales cost $7 or $11 to mail.

Suddenly their callers changed their tune.

So ask these folks in the conversation - how should we pay for basic services such as road repairs, utilities, fire and police services? User fees? If corporations do shipping - should they stop paying regular tax but pay road fees for each lb shipped (as their use of the roads - if the goods are heavy - put more wear and tear on the roads and thus they would have to pay more...)? Ask them specifically how things would be paid for and which services would end?

[Cleita]

15. I thought the post office was private.

I remember years ago, my postman getting upset because a private company took over. The service didn't get better and postage is more expensive, so privatizing didn't make things more efficient. I think thought that they have to follow federal government guidelines.

[Cleita]

16. When income tax was first initiated only the rich paid.

The working class and lower middle classes didn't and I don't think they did until around WWII.

[mkultra]

17. SO let me refocus the problem

TO refocus the question.

If simply income taxes where eliminated, despite the repercussions to our well being, companies use that opportunity to lower wages?

[Cleita]

18. Without a doubt, especially if the money was

collected from the companies to make up for the loss of revenue.