Is there, truly, nothing we can do about the state of our union?

[Selwynn]

I want take this reply from this thread and start a larger dialog.

First of all Q, though we do have disagreements on some issues - I respect you, and it is not my intention to pick on you, but rather to ask questions about a larger issue. In response to your thread, I asked what you wanted to do about the criticism you mentioned - what should we do about it, other than talk about it. You responded that there isn't much we can do, at least not now. And I responded:

If there's nothing we can do, then what is the point of, not just you, but all of us, myself included, writing every day about everything that's wrong and how screwed we've been. Frankly if you're telling me there's nothing we can do about it until 2008 then I don't want to hear about it until 2008.

If you're saying there's nothing we can do then there's no point in listening to the same old complaints every day. The only reason to listen to complaints is if they are a motivation to change something. Otherwise its just pointless rambling. And if that's true, and you're honestly saying there's nothing we can do right now, then why even write? I might as well just take a holiday, because listening to the same complaints about how messed up everything is with no plan for action is not only discouraging, it is also pointless....

...but I don't believe that just yet. I'm not quite convinced that there's literally nothing we can do. I'm just not sure where/how to start.

I've been thinking about Dr. King a lot lately. To me he was an amazing figure in American History - a person who in my opinion has one of the most important legacies in the history of our nation. I can't help thinking about how the world must have looked to a young Martin Luther King. I have a hard time believing it didn't look every bit as bad as things look now, if not worse. I can't help thinking to myself that when you really stop and think about it, the fact that Dr. King and other courageous civil rights leaders could actually change the country as they did seems almost like a miracle. But then I realize, its not at all a miracle. What it was was a small group of committed people willing to sacrifice it all for what the believed was just.

To me we need people like Dr. King and every honorable leader-of-the-people in our nations history to come to the place where they are convinced that real change, and truly standing for justice is more important than winning, or power, or even life itself. Now, I don't know how that is going to happen, but I also refuse to give up on it, because it can and does happen. A small group of committed people can change the course of history. What we need are leaders. Martin Luther King Jr. didn't only point out everything that was wrong and complain about how unfair the system was or how corrupt its members were. King looked out toward the future and said I have a dream! He looked forward and spoke about what American should be like not just what it was. He looked forward, not backward. He fought for change not just to bemoan the status quo.

I don't know how to do it all. But I think the first step would be to at least come together and get on the same page, and in one voice boldly proclaim that we are committed to action for the things we believe are just and right. At the very least we can commit to a discipline of forward thinking and not losing but rather fostering a message of hope and inspiration. I'm tired of the oppressive weight of defeatism. I'm tired of being experts on everyone else's problems and tragically inept and doing anything to ever change anything. And I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone else. This is not a one way chastisement. This is my chastisement as well as anyone else's.

Not everyone can do the same things, and each person must act according to their gifts of course. But I'm troubled and grieved by an atmosphere of comfort taken in simply being critical of the problems and the people who are the problem and act like somehow that's the same thing as being a good, devoted, passionate, committed honorable person who loves the principles this nation was founded upon and would do anything to see them restored again. I don't know how to win - but I want to at least talk about getting started! If nothing else, I at least want to kinds of conversations we have to shift from how screwed we always are to what we can do to look toward a future with hope.

If you feel like post is short on concrete answers and long on rhetoric - you're right. That's because I need your help. I need help to think about what can be done and how to do it. I need other minds to focus forward and stop looking backward all the time. I need that kind of help, we need that kind of help, the nation needs that kind of help and the world depends on that kind of help.

But if you're telling me that there's really nothing we can do until 2008, well then there's really no point in listening to a bunch of empty rhetoric critical of all the problems but completely resigned to not even trying to do anything about them.

I'm at work now, but I'm going to do my best to start posting not about every way in which we've been screwed or the country is messed up, but rather one what might do to at least start the process of fighting to restore a little justice - even just a little, and some liberty, and a little bit of democracy.


-----

And I'm at home now, and my question to all of my fellow DUers is, if there's nothing we can really do about our problems, what is the point of just writing and complaining every day? Are all the things discussed on this boards really little more than a toothless exercise in action-less-ranting? I refuse to believe this is true...

So, what are we doing here?

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Nothing that it would be prudent to post on a public message board :)

Excellent word writin' though!

Where you been?

:hi:

[Selwynn]

2. Oh,going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it...:)

Glad to see you! :hi:

[mandyky]

5. Really! With the cards in our hand,

and the way shrub feels about demonstrators being focus groups, I am unsure a peaceful resolution is possible, unless and until we get a new president that feels we should change drastically.

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. Any candidate who proposed more than a cosmetic change

would be 'unelectable'

In this particular bunch, the farthest from the status quo any of them dared to venture was to suggest that the crusaders operate under the UN letterhead and commit their war crimes while wearing blue hats.

A political solution is not possible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the voting class has essentially traded long-term viability of a sovereign state for long-term SUV loans and really cheap Dockers.

[sweetheart]

3. how many nukes?

I hear you selwynn, and i can't help but wonder if Dr. King and his activists are now called "al queda" and that destroying the USA has become the post millenial version of protests that have, however noble, proved rather inneffective at preventing 1000's of deaths and murderous american regimes, american hate and global ugliness.

Then i remember the game i used to play as a kid during the cold war, where i knew that russia had like a gazillion nukes just like america did, and i figured how many nukes it would take to totally destroy the USA. FIguring that the russians probably knew the same thing i did as a kid, they probably had those places selected as targets.

How many nukes? I figure 20.

Los angeles, san francisco, seattle, portland, san diego

Boston, new york, washington, atlanta, miami, philadelphia

chicago, denver, phoenix, houston

St louis, dallas, detroit, minneapolis, las vegas


That would pretty much take america back to third world nation status... sorta like europe after ww2... and give bush and his cronies the real return for the karma they've sewn round the world.

What we do here is chatter to satisfy our own emotional balance so that we can feel better about our lives in the time before WW4 destroys the country completely.

I'm glad al queda does not have nukes yet. I have to wonder why someone would want to use them, but it seems rather obvious given the global imperialism that the neocons unleash. Any enemy worth their salt could destroy the US several times over with a few nukes... no worries.

What are we doing here? We are making a noble stand against a great and ugly evil. Like they say in the movie conan before the last battle... it does not matter that we fought and died... rather that a few stood against many for justice.

[onethatcares]

4. I'm glad you left tampa off the list,

we are standing against a great evil tho.  More and more of
us. 

sorry, first post, a bit shy. 

[BeFree]

6. Welcome to DU, onethatcares

If for nothing else than our own personal Karma, we must stand against what we judge as being wrong for the earth, and indeed, wrong for humanity.

The question of this thread is; "What can we do?" Well we are DUing it. We are giving hope, inspiration, and education to each other and too ourselves.

We are a gathering force without one clear course except for the idea that together we will improve humanity through our government and through our society.

We are a new force, this DU, and we will grow and prosper and be fruitful and multiply. And if we live long enough, we shall change the world for the better.

[sweetheart]

9. welcome to DU

That evil knows no borders... bases in 130 countries... WMD's and merciless execution of 1000's of civilians.

It can be defeated without violence.

We must stand together.

peace,

[lostnfound]

14. Welcome to DU. Love your chosen name. And your city too.

I was born there -- well, in the area, anyway.

Florida is an awesome state to grow up in, at least it was.

I really do love your name "onethatcares".

[Q]

8. "We" have allowed the fascists to gain a stronghold...

...in our nation's capital. Their stronghold includes almost complete control of the once-free press, both houses and the WH and the Supreme Court.

- I said there was nothing we could do before the next election. I still believe that to be true. The reason is that the Democratic party has divided itself into camps and factions. One side is swerving corporate right as fast as they can...and the other side wants to maintain the traditional 'party of the people'.

- Can these two sides come together in time to defeat the 'most popular wartime president in history'? I doubt it.

[tom_paine]

10. As long as there is even a 1% chance that you are mistaken

You, me, all of us, should work to make it happen.

Whatever your doubts and mine (for the record I agree that it looks quite bleak), we must make our stand while there is still hope.

Not to do so, by which I mean not to get up off our asses, make a contribution, work on a campaign, write letters, and anything else you can think of, is abrogating our duty to our nation.

No, not the Empire, the Old Republic of America, which is dead or dying now but may be restored.

Think about it. If you sit on the sidelines now, while there is a hope of being saved from Tyranny, because you're sure there's no hope, then you run the risk of being wrong and having done nothing at the time of our nation's greatest need.

Just my 2 cents Q. Never give up!

[Selwynn]

11. Then why post?

What difference does it make to be up in arms about the 2000 elections or the sell-out democrats or whatever Bush knew or didn't know about 9/11? Who cares? Why write about it? Why should we even read about it? What difference does it make?

Why do people with thousdands and thousands of posts here take the time to post here - is this just one big therapy group... ?

I simply cannot take an attitude of resignation to fate, and then at the same time take seriously questions like "Where's the outrage?"

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. That is a question I ask myself a lot

The best answer I can ever come up with is that if anything I say makes one person go look something up, think for themselves instead of parroting memes, most of all take a minute and think about things from the point of view of the victim of whatever the current thing being discussed, then maybe they will let people hide in their basement when the time comes.

[arko]

13. Yes that would be progress

You aren't beaten until you quit, as long as you keep trying you still have a chance. Tomorrow can be a better day but we have to make it so. If only one additional person a week starts thinking then it has been worthwhile.

If you believe you can't you'll always going to be right. If you think you can you will probably be right. Its better than quiting.

[tom_paine]

15. Good point, DuctapeFatwa

I always said that i would be one of the ones hiding people in my basement.

This is ludicrous, given Total Information Awareness and the number of times I've been photographed at rallies.

I will be one of the ones needing a place to hide.

[bilger]

16. I think Dr. Kings reaction would suprise you.

Call it naive idealism if you like, but I think Dr. King would be happily suprised by many things. I'm sure he'd be happy to see such a healthy representation of black people amongst the people running for president. I'm sure he'd be happy to see how far blacks have come since the days of riding in the back of the bus, riots, lynchings, etc. I'm sure he'd be happy to see the unbelievable success of so many black role models in our culture (Opera, Michael Jordan, Denzil Washington, Colin Powell (relax and acknowledge), Condi Rice (ditto) etc..).

Don't get me wrong, I think he would be disappointed by a few things too. Primarily I think he would be sad that race is still such a divisive issue, especially with the advances that have been made since his day. I think he would be dismayed at those that still use race as a wedge for political gain. And flame me if you will, but I do believe that he would view the continuation of affirmitive action as a failure of his dream, that one day we will we will not be judged by our skin color, but by the content of our character.

[Skittles]

17. How happy would be be that thousands of blacks were not allowed to vote???

that our current piece of shit "president" STOLE THE ELECTION in part by DENYING THE RIGHT OF BLACK PEOPLE TO VOTE.