Bush wants to run on the gay marriage issue.

[davsand]

Plain and simple bush wants to run on the issue of Gay Marriage.

They are getting nervous with Dean's finish in Iowa, and they have GOT to be sure that whoever the DNC sends up is gonna be viewed as a flaming liberal by the moderates or even the fiscally conservative GOP members who might be tempted to sway to the right DNC who's discussing fiscally conservative views.

They know damn good and well that the majority of the US doesn't want any amendment to the Constitution,

They know that essentially, the Federal Government has NO control over the churches and who they choose to perform a ceremony for,

And they know that the Dems will never just sit down and say nothing in the face of this kind of bigotry.

His daddy did it with the flag burning issue--and that went after our right to free speech. True to form, shrub is going one better than daddy and attacking people's LIVES, and he used the SOTU to get it set in motion.


Laura

[brainwashed_youth]

1. about that

It seems that all these shows like Who wants to marry a millionaire, , For Love or Money, Joe Millionaire, and My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance are doing more to hurt marriage than the gays seem to be doing. And let's not forget about Britney Spear's 24 hour publicity stunt

[DinahMoeHum]

12. Yes, let's do a "Willie Horton" on *, using Britney Spears

as the poster girl for why heterosexual marriages are better than gay ones. She's a * supporter. Get two birds with one stone.

:kick:

[tnlefty]

31. I think that his brother, Neil, would make a MUCH better example of

marriage. Or Newt Gingrich for that matter.

[ramapo]

2. Divert attention to narrow social issues

You're right....this is the flag burning/Willie Horton page from Daddy's playbook.

The sad thing about American politics is the success that candidates have on focusing attention away from broad serious problems (health care, jobs, housing, cities, environment, transportation, energy, education...) to narrow, wedge issues that are basically meaningless but get a significant percentage of people in a tither.

[BigDaddyLove]

3. I say, let him............

It might even be a good idea if the world and this country wasn't in the situation that it's in.

If in fact he (they) decide to make this an issue in the face of all of the REAL issues, then the prospect of a Democrat in the White House in 2005 will be easier to realize than it would be if all he did was harp on the defense issue....which he really can't do anymore anyhow.

As time goes on, there are fewer and fewer issues that he can run on that will be viewed as credible in America's eyes.

[Fovea]

7. Agreed

It is time for Bush to show the world he spells* compassionate with a 'K'. In fact, we should all note that he is Karl's Kind of Kompassionate Konservative.


* Karl set it up that way in his spell checker.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. No, he wants to run on the Suspend the Constitution issue

Gay marriage just happens to be an emotional hotbutton that can be easily parlayed into essentially nullifying both equal protection under the law and separation of church and state.

[KayLaw]

5. Incredible

I worry every single day about the future of the country and the world. I worry about environmental degradation, the economy, the cost of drugs and medical care, the falling dollar, war and the draft, the deficit, and now, peak oil, so I understand worrying.

But are there really people who sit around worrying about who marries whom and whether some athlete is using steroids?

[LeahMira]

16. 'Fraid so...

I worry every single day about the future of the country and the world. I worry about environmental degradation, the economy, the cost of drugs and medical care, the falling dollar, war and the draft, the deficit, and now, peak oil, so I understand worrying.

But are there really people who sit around worrying about who marries whom and whether some athlete is using steroids?


These people who worry about who marries whom think that all the other problems you mentioned exist because Americans are turning away from G-d and religion. Bush allegedly turned to religion and away from drinking and look what happened to him. He got to be President of the United States.

The more anyone pooh-poohs that kind of thinking, the more these people dig in their heels. Also, since these people are so good at sniffing out sin, they probably won't ever be satisfied with America. There'll always be one more sin they need to eradicate before G-d thinks we're good enough to bless... or whatever.

Sometimes I think we just have to give up on being polite or trying to reach these folks. Nothing is going to work with them. It just amazes me that otherwise very intelligent people can be snookered by religion so easily.

[greekspeak]

25. You better believe it, kaylaw

Those wack-jobs over at Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America et al stew and fret about who marries who every day of the week. And they convince people that don't think that way that the atmosphere will dissipate or whatever if a gay couple are wed. It is a hate issue. They HATE gays and use the bible as a weapon in their war. Their predecessors did the same to justify slavery and the inferiority of those of african descent. Gay people to them are subhumans, devients, deserving of punishment here on earth and in the hereafter. So yes...people sit around worrying about who marries who. Just think....they could take a page from the bible, focus all that bile into something positive and fight for the poor, the elderly and everyone else who is suffering because people like them sit around and worry about who marries who. Selfish bastards.

[deminflorida]

6. Of course he does....but he's forgetting about the Act-Up

movement....It would be very disruptive for him to have to deal with those Gay Activists everytime he tries to conduct a campaign rally.

Does he really want to deal with the shit Dean did yesterday?

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. Flip side

The right might LOVE to have gay activists everywhere it goes. If that makes this election about gay marriage, then they win.

[maxsolomon]

23. act up won't get in to GOP rallies

and there won't be any public ones. if there are, they'll be in GOP dominated locations, with scritcly enforced free-speech corrals. and those will blocked off by buses.

so act up better think of a new tactic. or let this issue slide into the dustbin of history where it belongs. its a diversion. the dem condidate needs to call it that every time its brought up.

[patricia92243]

8. Our nominee should just agree with Bush-thus taking the subject off the

table. Then when our guy has been elected, he can do what is right - allow civil justice to all. Do or say whatever is necessary to win.

[Beaker]

11. bad idea.

when given the choice between a repuglican and a repuglican, people will always choose the repuglican.

Taking that kind of extreme position might also turn off a lot of potential voters, who'll opt to stay home or go third party instead.

[meegbear]

10. Nervous with Dean's finish in Iowa?

They've been on this for a long time, especially with the SC ruling on sodomy and the Mass. SC ruling on gay marriage.

Hell, conservatives have been pushing this for a long time. It didn't become an issue for them as of late Monday nite.

[davsand]

13. It isn't new--but it is now front and center.

You are right--like every other attack they have made on rights it has been ongoing--but by inserting it in the SOTU, bush has IDd himself with the issue.

AS long as Dean was viewed by the media pundits as the leader in the Dem primary, Bush could use the issue since Dean is viewed as strong on the issue of GLBT rights. Now that the pundits (rightly or wrongly) have decided that Dean is not secure in his lead, Bush had to make sure it is an issue for ALL the DNC candidates.

Laura

[Valjean]

14. Enabler

You are enabling him by reacting. The best thing to do is lay low and embrace domestic partnerships.

Demanding the right for gay marriage at the top of your lungs will only empower the president. You are wollowing in HIS mud. He is changing the subject.

There a far more important issues in this nation. Our future freedom is truly at stake with this man. It would be a shame to give it to him over gay marriage.

[Cannikin]

17. Once again...

Can someone post Valjean a link to information on the rights we are denied as same sex couples.

[Valjean]

20. Civil Rights???

If you had the same responsibilities and right of marriage without the name and instant recognition, wouldn't that be a victory????

Remember, if the Republicans keep winning, you WILL never have any rights to speak of. In fact, I dare say they would start kicking homosexuals out of public schools and sending them to institutions.

Is it better to get PART of what you want, or absoluetly nothing and lose what you already had.

[Beetwasher]

22. Wrong. No one's DEMANDING the right to gay marriage

Gays already have the right. The Repubs are DEMANDING that certain people be denied their right to freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Gay marriage is inherent in those rights already. By banning gay marriage you are stripping certain citizens of their rights.

If framed correctly this whole issue can be turned on it's head and used as a weapon against the Repubs. See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1041163&mesg_id=1041163

[onecitizen]

26. On that sentiment.........

I have to say I saw a gay rights advocate on one the shows and SHE said they (gays) probably would not make a big deal out of the issue at this election time. Reason being: they want bush gone. They realize that they will never get anywhere with bush in WH. Sooooo, I think wisely, they will not make this a big issue till after this election. This was a lady who I've seen on the shows alot. Short blond hair but I do not know her name. Sorry.

[Silverhair]

28. Too Late. The gay activists that pushed it to the MA SC made

it an issue this year.

[noonwitch]

15. Let him make this his main campaign issue

The american people vote their pocketbooks and their fears. Having Steve and Bob living next door doesn't cause the kind of fear that being unemployed or another terrorist attack does.

[Cannikin]

18. Bush and his holy war. Spreading God's message to every corner

of the Earth.

[Silverhair]

24. He won't make it his main campaign issue.

You are engaging in wishful thinking. How much time in the SOTU did he devote to the issue? One or two paragraphs, less than a minute. How much time did he devote to national security issues? A lot.

He will use this as a wedge issue.

[onecitizen]

19. I don't think any of.........

the candidates want to go anywhere near this issue at this time. Other than Dean of course. After the election probably but not till then unless forced to which is what bush is doing.....forcing the issue now.

[Silverhair]

21. I think they have a different game plan. Here it is.

Bring the Federal Marriage Amendment to a floor vote this summer. Since they control all the committees, they can do that. This forces a floor vote, or a filibuster. If there is a filibuster then there would be a vote on cloture.

EITHER OF THOSE VOTES FORCES DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURES TO PUT THEMSELVES ON RECORD. Many of Democratic Representatives/Senators are from otherwise red districts & states. To oppose the FMA would be political suicide for them.

If the Dems fight it, then they will have an added issue in state & district elections.

If the Dems roll over and play dead, then Bush brags about how "You protected marriage."

Given that 65% of the public opposes gay marriage, 38 states have DOMAs, and that among black 75% oppose gay marriage, and Latinos are almost all Roman Catholic and Latino machismo has no room for gays - then this becomes a losing issue for us.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. Sounds like a plan.

I don't think many of them really give a rat's ass one way or the other about gay marriage, but it's an issue they can use to screw up the works and put Democrats on the defensive.

It'll probably work better than race or crime, two of their old favorite wedge issues.

Word I'm hearing from contacts in Rutgers and Keane U. is that politically plugged in students are looking at gay marriage as the leading non-issue to become an overriding issue.

Watch for the commercial with Willy Horton marrying his cellmate.

[kentuck]

29. He's starting to grasp at straws, it seems..

:)

[K-W]

32. this isnt new or desperate

This is the Republican Party. They use race, religion, and sexuality to scare middle america into voting for a party that is economically screwing them.

[Kazak]

30. Well, you see where it got Poppy...

I suspect they both have the same fate.

[Plaid Adder]

33. I don't think he does, actually.

I posted about this in my SOTU response--his statement of 'support' for the MPA was very deliberately framed as a conditional. It was, IF the judges continue to impose blah blah blah, a constitutional amendment WOULD become necessary.

Now, from my POV that's still a lie, but the point is that he is trying not to give it his unequivocal support. I don't think he wants it to get to that point and I think it's because he knows perfectly well that a lot of people in his own party would be appalled by the prospect--not because they care about gays and lesbians but because they hate it when people tinker with the Constitution. After all, if they ram this thing through, then what's to stop them ramming an amendment through legalizing gay marriage at the national level if the pendulum ever swings backward?

I have said before and I still believe it: this issue is a loser for him and the more he pushes it the more he'll wish he hadn't. The fundies care a lot. Everyone else is more worried about the next paycheck or hospital bill.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[bilger]

34. Third rail for us I'm afraid...

The Pubs have no downside to harping on this issue, however the Dems do. For this reason I think the issue of gay marriage should be on the back burner. Heres why: Its a hot-button issue that splits the Dem party right down the middle. We've got the liberals on the far left who love this issue, and the moderate liberals on the right who get squirmy. The moderates, like it or not, are not comfortable defending this issue.

If you divide our own party in two, just think what kind of support you will find in the rest of the country where you are trying to sway the average non-voter, or independent? Its not a resonating/winning issue, as cold as it sounds. Realistically harping on the economy, security and the questions over Iraq will yield a lot more mileage. Beating the biggest drums will get you the broadest support, thats how you win in such a tight race.