The shrub is gonna get pruned. It's in the air after the SOTU.

[Cleita]

Bush is finally getting the criticism he should have gotten years ago. My husband had Jay Leno on and he really laid on some nasty anti-Bush jokes about the SOTU. John McCain slammed him on John Stewart. The worm is turning it appears. Even the speech Karen Hughes wrote for him couldn't spin the lies about the WMD, the Iraq War, the economy, or his education programs into anything believable anymore.

It isn't just us at DU anymore. Disgust with Bush is going mainstream and it appears it's his own that are turning on him. I wonder what's next. I think the O'Neill book has done him tremendous damage and the Repigs are going to let him go down. They are like lions in a pride, who circle in to take out the head lion when he gets wounded and no longer can fight back. They will keep slashing at him until either he leaves or dies.

Stay tuned. I think this is going to be a spectator sport for us. Richard Nixon again being taken down by his own party.

[madrchsod]

1. the old guard of the republican party

is waking up to the damage that is happening. they realize bush is worse than any "tax and spend" democrat ever was. the whole fabric of america is being rotted away and even these guys can`t avoid the stench any longer....

[izzie]

20. I can not see the old guard putting up with to much sh--

The Bible belt zealots will stay I feel but not all religious people in the south are zealots. You can see Bush is trying to hold them in line, with the judge, marriage act, faith base stuff but it is so in your face he is buying them they may even bolt.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. if the 'old guard' is going to do anything to get rid of Bush

it will have to move very quickly. If they don't put up an alternate Republican candidate for 2004, then it'll still be in their best interests to get Bush elected. They'd be able to influence him more than a Democratic president, and then they'd be able to run an 'old-style' Republican candidate in 2008 without facing an incumbent Democrat. All they have to do is work out how to disassociate themselves from the Toxic Texan in public.

[madaboutharry]

2. This is an interesting analysis

I hope your right. There is nothing I'd love to watch more.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Bush has done more Harm to the Pub Party in the past 70 years

than any other Prez, Dem included.

Rove and a few others convinced the Pub Masters Bush W was up to the job.

As it turns out, Bush is an embarrassment no end, and the talk is, Bush gatta fall on the sword.

Bush: "Hell No I gonna give up the Helm. I ain't giving up Nothin!"

Pub Masters: "Can the Terminator run??"

"No?? Damn".

Bush has blown it so far and many believe Bush is Passe... toast.If he couldn't get it after 3 years, he will never gonna get it.

[Kazak]

3. Oooo, baby!

The stench is in the air, if you get my drift...

[bilger]

5. I wish you were right

I wish you were right, but lets not get carried away here. Bush is still a very popular president, and just because McCain slams him, or Leno jokes about him doesn't mean a whole lot. People can poke fun and still like the guy, just look at Clinton.

I don't think you can count on the O'Neil book for much traction either because much of the public views it as sour grapes. It didn't help that O'Neil himself distanced himself from the book after it caused such a stir. He went out of his way to say 'its not my book' after getting so much attention focused on some choice quotes.

Again, I wish you were right, but we've got to stay level headed and keep the pressure on. Rush Limbaugh will often claim the Dems are 'panicking' or 'collapsing' or 'self destructing', when in reality its wishful thinking. I don't want to go there.

[markses]

7. You are, of course, correct

to urge everyone to keep the pressure on. Bush's SOTU performance was not only poor, it was a disgraceful affront to both his own office (however illegitimate his claims thereto) and the nation as a whole.

I think you are wrong to dismiss the obvious effects of O'Neil's claims - the book was a best seeler, and your contention that "most people" view it as "sour grapes" sounds more like a Rush talking point (i.e., a clear fiction) than anything else.

But you're right. Bush is the type of sickening political animal that needs to be kicked repeatedly when it is down. After his laughable and disgiusting SOTU performance, we should be blasting all our artillery at these fascist scumbags.

[Cleita]

8. Yes, Bush is "a very popular President" on Fox News.

Yes, they poked fun at Clinton mercilessly for eight years and beyond, but Bush has provided so much good comic material during his term, doesn't it strike you odd that they just kept recycling old Clinton jokes? What were they afraid of? Apparently, nothing anymore now that the Repigs aren't protecting him anymore.

The O'Neill book is only the tip of the iceberg. You wait and see, the whistleblowers are going to start crawling out of the wood work now.

And who cares about Rush anymore. He's blown his credibility and in a year or two won't be on the air.

[frank frankly]

9. cleita, i see that, too

lay it down!

[hang a left]

26. Bush is popular? Says who?

I don't believe that media whore spin for a minute. They are just hypnotizing the masses, the sheep, the lemmings. Bush is going down, unfortunately I am of the belief they have another demon in disguise to finish us off.

Don't mind me, I don foil for every occasion.

on edit: I spelled deskized wrong :-/

[RandomKoolzip]

27. I have to agree....

We have so much in our arsenal now, but look at what they've got:

Moolah: Bush and Dick have raised probably the most campaign money of any president EVER. These dudes were already mega-ludicrously rich, and now they've bilked something like 160 million (I'm not too sure about that figure) from corporations to put towards re-selection. The Dem frontrunners have nowhere NEAR that amount to spend on campaigning. More money=more dirty tricks.

9/11: Unfortunately, a lot of Americans turned off their cerebral cortexes when 9/11 happened, and decided that they would never question the government again. Seriously. I know several of them just at my restaurant alone. What happened on 9/11/01 was so scary to them that it shook their ability to tell fiction from non; they still believe there are terrorists around every corner, under their beds, with shoulder-to-air rocket launchers or a nasty dirty bomb...and the Bushmeister is the only one who will protect them. The crap about Homeland Security and Iraq and our "allies" in the SOTU RESONATED with these folks. they were for the IWR and nothing will sway them. Not even LIHOP.

Fundamentalism: A large section of the populace believes Bush is God's representative on Earth. Period. Sad, but they really believe that shit. If Bush said it, that must mean Gawd approves.

Incumbancy and loyalism: We can talk all we want about how more and more repubs are becomin disgusted with the Boy KIng, but to jump from that to "they'll vote Dem" is a long leap indeed. Bush has got the name reconition, he's got the patina of macho righteousness WE can see through but others are unwilling to, and he's got the epic "living in big times" miasma around him that leads so many to declare that he knows what he's doing, he's a "beer buddy," etc. They get real defensive of the chimp. To make the assumption that lots of crossover votes will take place is to count those chickenhawks before they're plucked.

Tax Cuts: even though those famous bribes didn't do anything to really benefit the working class or the middle class, somehow just the fact that the president would be so nice as to send li'l ol' ME a 3 hunnerd dollar check in the mail has convinced many that Bush is lookin out for them. Never mind that those checks were an advance on their rebates.....And the mere mention of the words "tax cut" gives lots of folks in this country big veiny purple boners. The tax codes upset and vex a large part of the repub base, for some reason....they think our tax system is TOO progressive. They are obsessed, they are sick, they are Grover Norquist. I wish there was a bathtub big enough for all these slapnutses to fit into.

BBV: need I say more?


We got a big big fight ahead of us.

[Cleita]

28. Not only that you wouldn't have even gotten that

advance on your rebate if some Democrats hadn't pushed it through.

[bilger]

34. About those tax cuts...

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I wouldn't under estimate the power of the tax cuts. Almost every tax payer had their rates lowered and got a rebate check. And if you had kids you got a lot more(double child credit, so an additional $500 per rug rat compared to previous year). Add to this that a palpable improvement in the economy and you can see the difficulty in telling the average American that the country is worse off because of the tax cuts.

Some of the Dem candidates want to reverse those tax cuts, but Bush/Rove will tear those people to pieces because it effectively *raises* taxes for millions of lower and middle income people (primairly due to the child credit). I may be in the minority here, but if I was advising the Dem challengers, I'd stay away from the tax cuts or at least reversing them across the board.

[Skittles]

37. OMG

get that, people? Getting rid of irresponsible tax cuts is a TAX RAISE. WHO ELSE TELLS US THAT ?????????

[bilger]

38. Haha

Haha, you're right, sounds familiar! Hey, I'm all for attacking the tax cuts, but you just have to be careful how you do it. You can screw a lot of people at the bottom if you're not careful. Thats why I can't support Dean on this one without some revisions.

[Toots]

39. You are right in a lot of ways but....

But there are ways to pick and choose and to make the tax code more progressive. The wealthy use more resources and should pay more for them. We need to regain fairness in our taxation. Some would say that taxing everyone at the exact same rate is the most fair way to do it. It is certainly the most regressive way. I believe in government so I believe in taxes. I also understand how much it hurts when you don't make much money and how little it hurts when you make a bundle. Right now Americans have just inserted their credit card into the ABM machine and withdrew cash. Remember everyone it's going on the charge card. But it sure is enticing to get cash back. What is our Debt, Deficit, again?

[frank frankly]

6. Cleita, you are 100% correct

great analysis

i see it too

President Stoopid can't withstand a single chink in the myth

i'd think he's a hologram, but he's such a uniquely awful asshole idiot...

[meisje]

10. Don't hold your breath

The Repugs may hate Bush, but not as mush as they hate Dems. Could you hate a Dem so much that it would make you vote for a Repug?? I doubt it! *'s poll numbers are at or above 50% or close to it and that is all that is needed to win. Dean is screwing up, Kerry really has no chance, and Edwards... it just won't happen. I have my fingers crossed and will vote for any dem, but I have yet to see the sun breaking through the clouds.

[Cleita]

11. Historically they will turn on their own to save

their miserable party. They did with Nixon and if they don't with shrub, they will sink back into being the minority party again and that's what they are afraid of. The more rational of them will bring him down. It started with O'Neill. McCain has picked up the guantlet and unless Rove wants to start offing the opposition, he can't stop it.

[Bandit]

31. "McCain has picked up the guantlet"

I heard McCain tell Jon Stewart he was headed to New Hampshire to campaign for Bush* I think you may be suffering from wishful thinking. I do believe that there are a few intelligent Republicans out there and that they will no longer back this disasterous Administration. They won't vote Democratic but will just not vote. That very fact could win us back Congress as well as the Whitehouse.

[Cleita]

32. You are absolutely right that they will still back Bush.

However, if I were Bush, I would wonder why one of my backers is saying bad things about me? This will do nothing to increase his base. IMHO.

[starroute]

13. Republicans are starting to desert Bush

A friend of ours was over today -- a lifelong Republican. (Conservative small town variety, not wingnut or fundie.) He said he was so fed up with Bush that not only would he not vote for him, but he was changing his party registration so that he could vote in the Democratic primary.

I've seen a lot of stories like that here at DU, though this is the first one I've run into in person. Bush is horrifying many Republicans in a way that *no* nationally prominent Democrat has ever horrified Democrats. There really is something uniquely awful about him.

[shanti]

15. the repukes just won't vote

and you're correct - they surely won't vote for a dem.

[diamond14]

12. watch for a possible attempt at the nixonian shuffle...which goes

like this:

the VP resigns (Spiro Agnew resigned as a plea-bargain to a criminal indictment over US Housing and Urban Development (HUD) scandals about money)

for cheney, it'd be easy to resign for 'health reasons' and then still do what he's doing, but behind the scenes....it would also take some pressure off several major investigations


the new VP is CHOSEN (an idea made into law after Kennedy was murdered)...Gerald Ford, congressman from Michigan, was chosen for nixon...they might possibly choose Bill Frist (horrors), because reTHUGS already moved him into position thinking he has pResidential possibility....


then, nixon resigned rather than go to prison and gloriously flew away off the White House lawn....
and Gerald Ford became an appointed president...
and so could bill frist (horrors)

the new appointed President then CHOOSES the VP
for Ford, it was Nelson Rockefeller, who was earlier the Governor of New York, but at the time of his VP appointment, Nelson was just a common citizen holding no political position at all...he was just a filthy rich guy wanting to dally around for a while as the VP....

so we had TWO totally unelected officials, VP and Pres. right after nixon...the reTHUGlicans could have held power, which no doubt was the plan, if only Ford had won the next Presidential election...but he flubbed it BIG TIME....

however, bill frist and some VP might (?) be able to save the reTHUGlicans by running for November and keeping power in their hands...there's still time....especially since the very late reTHUGlican convention nominating their top runner....

end of true story....the nixonian shuffle....

[Cleita]

14. I'm thinking something similar will be tried.

You know the Repigs can't think outside of the box, so they will be boringly predictable. I hope that this time it will backfire and I hope our Democratic presidental candidates or at least the one that emerges will keep his nose in the wind so he can head this power shuffle off at the pass.

[Cat Atomic]

16. But doing that would be an admission of wrongdoing- not just

in a little breaking and entering, but in starting a war. That's such an enormous stain.

And if the appointed President pardoned the outgoing criminal? It'd wreck the Republican Party's chances long past the next presidential election. That sort of thing would wreck their party.

[Kazak]

23. *wretch*

Frist is such a JOKE!

[jmowreader]

29. They can't do it in an election year, though

If they try the Nixonian Shuffle ten months before the election, we could win with Dukakis. (Any Dukakis will do.)

Last year, they could have run him off before the war started and been fine--choose someone innocuous-looking, maybe John McCain. They'd have to flush the PNAC maniacs out of their positions. McCain would be perfect for them. He's a decent Republican, he's a war hero and he's got some grip on fiscal reality. Back him up with a winger as VP to appease the wingnut base. I'm thinking Frist, who is fairly low on the wingnut hierarchy--bad, but anyone here can name ten worse ones without thinking.

Let these two make some changes, ones that benefit the majority of Americans, and the Democratic Party would be in for a serious fight.

If they start shuffling these nutcases around now, the people will see it as a method to remove Bush before he destroys the party; that will destroy the party.

[Eric J in MN]

17. John McCain criticized Bush's spending on The Daily Show, but also said

John McCain criticized Bush's spending on The Daily Show, but also said he's going to New Hampshire to campaign for Bush.

We still have heck of a lot of work to do to even come close to beating him.

None of the Democrats are ahead when the poll question is, "would you vote for Kerry or Bush?" for example.

Even if one were, Bush has $200 million to promote himself with.

[radfringe]

18. CNN reported yesterday that "approval" for SOTU

was only at 45%

[dusty64]

19. Wow, that means

it must really be MUCH worse. The repubs have been VERY quiet lately, no more talk of the "VERY popular wartime pResident". I'm cautiously optimistic, been let done so many times. Keeping my fingers crossed that the regime is going down.

[goddess40]

21. SOTU approval

Last night O'Leilly said polls showed a 76% speech approval. However, he did not say what poll. The only poll I saw that approved of the speech was one taken in Mississippi.

[Stabidak]

33. Information Wars

I have not made up my mind how I will vote, I host a radio show locally and the people who call in really seem to like Bush, they cite "integrity" as a key issue.
Information Wars does have some serious questions regarding this administration.
If Bush begins lagging in the polls will we see another terrorist attack or will Osama be conveniently "captured" right before the election?

http://pub63.ezboard.com/binformationwars

[Cleita]

36. Let's hope his camp doesn't stage another terrorist attack

to get votes. How calloused and evil would that be? Do you think, also, that they have Osama and are waiting for the right opportunity. There have been rumors about Osama being allowed to escape because of the Saudi connection and the rumors have been buried as quickly. If someone wants to do some investigative reporting, here's a conundrum to dig into.

[catmandu57]

24. I think the old guard is going to sit this one out

Let the neoconvicts take the lumps. Sure the chimp* has the support of the ratwing, but, thats not going to get him reselected.
There is still plenty of time for someone like perot to start making noise and really divide the pukes.
This one term loser is going down, and hopefully down so far, that this nonsense will never again raise it's ugly head.

[Cleita]

25. Bill Seidman, freeper extraordinaire on the money channel

CNBC, and fanatical apologist for President Bush said that the President had become such a fine speaker since his last SOTU, almost "Churchillian", which was a choker, coffee all over the keyboard time.LOL He couldn't defend the rest of the speech. Ted Davis, one of the few true liberals left on cable TV pointedly asked him how he thought he was going to cut the defict in half like he promised and even Seidman couldn't spin that and said that it was reaching high and almost impossible.

Also, another Enron executive was arrested this morning. Stay tuned. Things are turning around.:bounce:

[proud patriot]

30. I've noticed a couple of firsts since the SOTU

1)showing protesters of bush visits
2)More discussion of Voting Rights
3)GOP invading the privacy of Dems (watergate style)story breaks

I think of more , but that's it for now

[dennis4868]

35. Disgust with Bush is going mainstream ?

I dont think so....wishful thinking. Everytime I think that the tide will return I am wrong. So I have given up!