AWOL discussion with a puke

[mdmc]

Okay, I date republicans, sometimes even crazy right wingers!
I was on a date last night when the discussion turned to Bush and his military service.

Here is how it went down
Her: Bush is a war hero.
Me: His dad was, W. was not.
Her: Not true!
Me: If each soldier in today's army was as dedicated to their duty as George H.W. Bush (the 41st President), wouldn't our Army be stronger?
Her: Yes!
Me: If each soldier in today's army was as "dedicated" to their duty as W., would our army be stronger or weaker?
Her: It would be just as strong.
Me: Should today's soldier be allowed to leave at will, prior to completion of their term of service?
Her: No.
Me: Poppy Bush, Gore, and Kerry all were elitist. They chose to serve, even though privilege did not require it. They are Patriots.
Her: Dean dodged the war, too!
Me: Yes, Both W. and Dean avoided Nam.
Her: That doesn't make them bad, or AWOL. They were legal.
Me: Sure, they just got out of serving in battle. But Bush claims to be a war hero. That is how this conversation started.

[trumad]

1. First off... Why the hell you dating a repuke

yuk

[bryant69]

6. After all the best way to

Win our country back is to have nothing to do with Republicans. We should shun them as much as possible, and make them feel uncomfortable when we do have to talk to them. IN that way they'll realize the error of their ways and return to the light side of the force.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[NewJeffCT]

12. well

I've tended to date mostly liberal Democratic type women through the years, but that is more based on personality (I'm generally easy going and laid back, while the women I dated pre-marriage were very outgoing, energetic, independent types) ... but, I see nothing wrong with dating whomever you want. In an intimate setting, you can maybe show your partner the error of his or her ways over time.

[alwynsw]

24. Not a good tactic IMO

How does one educate those to whom he will not speak?

If preaching alone worked, we'd all be in church every Sunday. If teaching by example alone worked, we'd all be like Mother Theresa (or insert your favorite good person here).

If we don't get face-to-face and educate in a meaningful way, we'll never win converts. We sure as hell can't breed a majority.

on edit: When the lights go out, political differences are of n consequence. The only matter is, "Who bathed". Moans and grunts don't come in political flavors. (OK, so it's a crude way to illustrate a point. Sue me.)

[leftchick]

26. I married a repuke!

That was 14 years ago and he is almost more left than me now. He can hardly stand to be around his freeper co-workers. Makes him ill! I guess I did an admirable job converting him, of course 8 wonderful years of peace and prosperity under Pres. Clinton sure helped. :)

[mdmc]

30. Sounds like your still anchored on the left as well

Correct, leftchick? Glad to see that he saw the light and that you weren't drawn into the darkness. :)
Good stuff!

[Az]

2. Save your brain

Stop dating pukes.

[mdmc]

27. Save her brain

I already vote Dem. Or progressive. Anyway, she likes Edwards.

[Bridget Burke]

3. His dad's "war hero" status is debatable

Some accounts indicate he bailed out of his fighter-bomber prematurely. His 2-man crew were not wearing parachutes; space was tight & they were only supposed to put them on if needed. Without a pilot to hold the plane steady, they had no chance to escape.

[0007]

13. Just gonna write the same thing.

"Fortunate Son" by J.H. Hatfield. Read page six and see if G.W. Bush is a war hero!

[mdmc]

23. He did better than I could have

My use of "hero" was a concession to the fact that he served in combat, even though he could have dodged combat.
Both JFK and GHW Bush had spotty war records, so we allow both to be called hero's without debate.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. Check out this thread for AWOL BUsh info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1047325

[mdmc]

8. That is a thread by a Raygun "Democrat"

I just date pukes...

[nannygoat]

5. I'm not sure it's true that "Dean dodged the draft." From what I've read

he did show up as required by the draft board but received a medical deferrment. Anybody have any better info?

[mdmc]

7. I mean in the broadest sence

Some folks might hide a back pain, or underage status, or gender, for that matter, to "join" the draft. Everyone who could have fought, but didn't, legal or other, "dodged" the draft, the same way you would dodge a bullet.

Your info on Dean is right on.

[yellowcanine]

14. So anybody who didn't volunteer was a draft dodger?

I think your definition is yours alone. Besides, people who "hide" physical defects or other disqualifying factors to join the military are not doing their military comrades any favors. Suppose that disqualifying factor causes a failure to perform in combat and gets some of their comrades killed or wounded? People who understand combat set the rules for who is qualified. They disqualify people for good reason, for the most part ( yeah, I know, gays and before 1948, blacks).

[HawkerHurricane]

16. Hiding disqualifiers...

is lying on official documents; and punishible under the UCMJ.

Reminded of a story of a man drafted into the military in the early 70's... He told his draft board he was gay. They ignored him, and he ended up in the navy. He volunteered for submarines, and stayed in for over 20 years... then he was outed. They tried to discharge him without benefits, but he proved that he had not enlisted under false pretenses (he TOLD them), and since he hadn't been caught actually doing anything (he had a website where he announced it), there were no charges they could bring against him, so he was allowed to complete his tour and recieve full benefits...

[mdmc]

25. When I posted I was thinking of the folk song

Jack O'Roe, where I girl joins the navy. I've met a couple gay Vietnam vets while volunteering for the Dean campaign. Interesting group.

[yellowcanine]

10. Stress fracture of a vertebrae

Which apparently was enough to cause failure of a army physical in the 60's. Some have made a big deal of the fact that he was an avid skiier at the time but so what? The fact that a person is fit enough to ski (and maybe he shouldn't have been skiing but that was his choice) doesn't mean they are fit for the rigors of basic training or combat. Furthermore he didn't make the rules about the medical requirements for military service and he engaged in no deception about his medical fitness - so if people are trying to use this to dump on Dean they clearly are grasping at straws. I am not a big Dean supporter (but I would definately support him over Lieberman or, gag, Bush) but I think attacking his draft record is just silly.

[mdmc]

11. I agree

but I know that 'no black boys got out with stress fractures, especially if they could play hoops (or ski) all day.

Dean didn't want to go to Nam. Bush wanted to go to Nam, but didn't have the balls.

[yellowcanine]

15. No you don't "know" that no blacks got out with stress fractures.

How could you know that? When you went for an induction physical, the military doctors didn't ask how you spent your spare time. They gave you a physical exam. They had no interest in passing somebody through who might have a chronic condition that would endanger combat readiness. Dean didn't "get out" because of the stress fracture, he was disqualified - there is a difference. He didn't get to choose one way or the other.

[mdmc]

22. fractures, especially if they could play hoops (or ski) all day.

I'm just sayin...
Dean's a patriot. He did nothing wrong. All is legit.

[Beaker]

21. Bush "wanted to go to Nam"????????

huh?

if he "wanted" to go to 'Nam, why did he use daddy's favours to join the National Guard???

just because he probably wanted to get a chance to "kill some gooks" or "zap some slopes", it doesn't mean that he wanted to risk his own ass to do so.

[mdmc]

31. Bush wanted America to go to Vietnam

probably...right? He did not want to go himself, of course. He wanted us to go.

[HawkerHurricane]

17. I don't get it...

Jack Kemp was to unhealthy to serve in the army, but not too unhealthy to be starting quarterback for the Buffalo Bills...

Go figure how soon you'll here a Repub bring that up...

[Brewman_Jax]

9. Save your sanity

Stay away from "those" people. All they do is

All you have to do is ask why can't we see Bush's* DD-214 form?

[HawkerHurricane]

18. Do officers get DD-214's?

Since that's discharge papers, and officers aren't discharged...

[Brewman_Jax]

19. Yes, we do

Everyone discharged from the service gets one. I finished as an O-3 after 6 years in the Navy, and I have mine.

[LTR]

20. I do hear...

...that Repub girls tend to have a pretty wild streak.

If you know what I mean ;)

[Skittles]

28. with all due respect

do you just LIKE stupid women? This one is PATHETIC.

[mdmc]

32. bingo

she is not my favorite. nowhereville, for sure.

[leftofthedial]

29. whatever you do,

don't breed with one of them.

They are damaged and we need to get them out of the gene pool.

Even though pukes are amoral and therefore far more succeptible to disease and perversion, as long as you use precautions to avoid inadvertent procreaton with one, you should be fine. They are stupid in addition to being amoral, which makes it easier to seduce them.

What an ignorant woman. Did you get "lucky"?

[LTR]

34. But it doesn't hurt to go through the motions

Use protection. Lots of it.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

33. If we can't vote the repubs. out . . .

we'll breed them out.

Or, the problem with the republican party is . . . well, it's full of republicans.

[fob]

35. Bzzzt! Wrong answer!

Dean went down to take his physical in anticipation of going to Nam and failed the physical. bush* had strings pulled to get his ass an impossibly quick TANG position and Lt. gig with low scores and THEN blew that off for a year!

Failed physical <> AWOL/Deserter

And if she's really a repuke, tell her to shut up and listen to you, The Man, it's not her place to question you!

[mdmc]

36. Dean and Bush are not war heros

That is how we left it.