Want to steal an issue from the Repubs, and still be compassionate?

[plurality]

Here's the issue...illegal immigration.

We all know how many conservatives LOVE to rail about illegal immigrants, and the Repukes play it up to high hell.

We know the line, "These damn illegals are coming in here taking our jobs and then using up our tax dollars by getting welfare, etc., etc."

The thing we need to realize is that this is a common supply/demand issue. As long as there's a supply (ie companies hiring illegals) there will ALWAYS be a demand (illegal immigrants).

So, the way we solve this problem, and in the same instance steal millions of votes from Republicans is we shut down and confiscate the assets of any company found to be employing illegal immigrants. Believe me, this will end illegal immigration REAL fast.

[absolutezero]

1. I like it

If we can force companies to pay immigrants the same wages as americans (removing all incentive for them to hire illegal immigrants), and severly punish a company for violating the rules we can make everyone happy. Liberals are happy because we're stickin' it to corporate murika, and conservatives are happy because "there are no more immigrants stealing jobs" /repuke

[Toots]

2. Who's gunna pick the fruit ~ you?

I hate to say it but American workers just don't have the work ethic of the Mexicans. The Mexicans will work for low pay because they need the money, not because they love the labor. Americans won't do it. They will sit home and collect some government benefit until they can find a "Real Job". Americans have priced themselves out of many labor markets but still demand a .$30 apple or a head of lettuce for under a dollar. Americans are quite spoiled and in for a very rude awakening. It ain't all Bush*'s fault either. We need to come to grips with our own faults before finding so much fault with others.

[plurality]

4. i'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind doing that job

maybe the guy living in the bus stop out in front of my apartment. and maybe with this plan they'll actually get paid a decent wage for doing it.

of course there'll be consequences, we might have to pay more for some of our goods, but when the alternative is low prices and 25% unemployment, jobs with no benefits, and mass homelessness, I think i'll pay a little more for my goods thank you very much.

[Serenity-NOW]

6. I hear this but I simply know better

I know plenty of Americans who have worked picking grapes, apples and so on. A friend once came to Cali for the summer and worked picking grapes for the crush. He had a great time and finished the season. Meanwhile I slaved away in a taco bell which was my next job after being a paper boy, before that I swept up in front of a store in Isla Vista for a dollar a week and before that I made money removing snails from gardens in the neighborhood. Spare me the mythology please.

[Philosophy]

7. Apples are only 30 cents because

because the people that grow them can get immigrants to pick them for very low pay. If Americans had to be paid more to be interested in picking them, they they would cost more, and people would buy less of them, but wouldn't you agree that a few high paying jobs for Americans is better than lots of low paying jobs for guest workers?

[K-W]

8. geez

If people wont work for the pay they are offering, in a proper free market system they should RAISE THE PAY. Of course american workers dont want to do hard work for low pay, the fact that economically depressed illegal immigrants will has nothing to do with work ethic. And your statement is patently racist.

Why dont you take your 'race to the bottom' logic and go to a corporate boardroom or a republican strategy session. America is fully capable of sustaining a very high (though not as wasteful) standard of living. The problem is that the top 10% want continuing and growing profits out of the system.

[Sugarbleus]

17. I beg to differ..

MY family worked the fields, orchards, and cannerys for YEARS when I was a child. When I was ten, I worked with my mother and sister in "cutting sheds" where we were paid 50 cents a box to cut and lay out apricots to dry. My oldest daughter was a Nanny for a Doc for about four years. I worked cleaning houses when I was a young single mother. My mother retired from cannery work (teamsters).
Doesn't anyone remember the "Dust bowl" era? My grandson's father is an illegal immigrant from Mexico. I love the Mexican people as well as I do any other group. But saying that "white folk" or Black folk or any other folk won't work fields and do janitorial or any position you can name is ludicrous!! Maybe YOU are too good to do it, but that isn't the case for me and my family.
In addition, the people doing the hiring of illegals in many places are EXPLOITING them! Low wages, no benefits, work the tar out of them, substandard housing etc. Remember Caesar Chavez? He worked his heart out to stop the abuse of migrant workers...but it still goes on. I think we should insist that MEXICO to do it's J O B in terms of providing for thier own citizens. Raise the wage level for all people working everywhere so no greedy business will be able to pull some seedy shit like exploiting illegals and blowing off the American workers. :spank:

[doc03]

19. Tired of this Americans won't do the work BS

In this area Walmart built a distribution center with scab southern
and illegal labor. Our local construction workers would have taken those jobs in a minute. Cabela's sporting goods is building a similar
facility in this area and they have had no problem finding qualified
local union workers to do the job. But yet the short sited greedy American public has made Walmart the largest employer. The local Sheriff picked up several (illegal) workers from the Walmart project
and tried to turn them in to the INS and they wouldn't take them, they said they had bigger fish to fry. As for picking fruit the free
market should determine what the job is worth. I think for every Hispanic vote you may loose by supporting (illegal) immigration you will gain 2 from American citizens. I saw a poll recently that the
overwhelming majority of American citizens Republican and Democrat oppose (illegal) immigration. The right wingers like Pat Bucanan and Lou Dobbs care more about American labor than our party does anymore.

[Virginian]

3. They sure are inconsistent.

What about Elian Gonzales? They sure wanted him to stay. Wasn't he an illegal? Didn't have a dry foot when the "fisherman" reeled him in.

Even if he had made it to dry land, I don't understand why they were all so united in wanting him to stay. Even though we don't have these treaties with Cuba, I thought it was violating the spirit of custody treaties we had with other nations if we didn't honor his father's custody rights.

I think they were pandering to the Cuban voting block. It wasn't about the little boy, it was about votes.

[plurality]

5. of course they were

did you know that cuba is the only country that refugees are granted instant asylum? anyone else gets shipped to INS prison while their case is examined, and most end up being deported.

[jmowreader]

11. Only the ones who "make it" get asylum

The Navy and Coast Guard patrol the seas between Cuba and Florida. Anyone they can fish out of the ocean goes back to Cuba.

[plurality]

14. that's true

but make it to the beach and you're home free.

[Virginian]

16. Which was he

Was he Wet foot because he was fished out of the sea or was he dry foot because the officials didn't fish him out of the sea? I don't think the officials saw him until he was on dry land.

[plurality]

18. i think they found him at sea but made an exception

because his mother had died. it was just such a heart wrenching tale that the INS felt they simply HAD to kidnap Elian from his father.

[library_max]

9. Be anti-immigrant. Yeah, that'll get us the Hispanic vote.

I mean, I see what you're saying, but think how it will play. And I'm well aware of the fact that the Hispanic vote is far from a monolith, but a lot of Hispanic voters (I live in a 94% Hispanic town, so I know what I'm talking about) identify with immigrants the same way good ol' boys identify with Bush. We can't make friends with them by kicking their dawg.

[plurality]

10. it's not anti-immigrant

I imagine most immigrants don't like illegal immigrants either, because they came here legally and often get lumped in with the illegals.

Plus this doesn't have anything to do with the immigranta themselves. This has to do with the businesses that are exploiting people and in most instances giving money to Republicans that use anti-immigrant racist rhetoric.

Plus, and this may come as a shock, but I generally find it best to do what's best for the country and not what's the best way to pander for votes. And I consider this to be an important issue. Why, did you notice we're about to hit a population of over $300 million soon? How long do you think we can sustain that kind of population growth?

[onecitizen]

12. On Thursday I saw Peolsi.......

with Dash. and they were talking about this. This was not the press conference they had earlier in the week. And I swear I thought Pelosi said something about controlling the borders (southern). I was not able to stop and listen at the time. I googled and could not find anything. Checked CSpan as well.....nothing. Did anyone else catch this? It was like they were changing their position. Which I think would be a smart political move. People want those borders closed desperately. Since I don't live around any of the borders I can't say. But listening to people who do, there is passion in their voices. We have to do something about illegals. WHAT to be done, I cannot say.

[plurality]

13. closing the borders won't do it.

there's still ships and cars/trucks they can be smuggled in on. as i said, the only way to do something about this is to clear up the demand for illegals. i guarantee after the first two businesses are shut down permanantly for hiring illegals, you won't see it happen again. and then the illegals will stop coming here because there won't be any work for them here.

much better than militarizing our border if you ask me.

[w4rma]

15. I agree. (n/t)