Is a Democrat who voted for Nader in 2000, and who still identifies

[ulysses]

Poll question: Is a Democrat who voted for Nader in 2000, and who still identifies

as a Democrat...

[Terwilliger]

1. evil hosers

OB viously

[ulysses]

6. we're up to two there.

Within striking distance. :)

[muchacho]

2. Nader 2008

Nader has the right message, there's too much at stake this year.


Nader 2008!!!!!!

[Althion]

3. You forgot none of the above

So I couldn't vote.

A

[ulysses]

5. added an "other" option.

:)

[TreasonousBastard]

4. An evil hoser, but...

only if he also voted for Perot.

[MariaS]

12. That would

be me. Nader in 2000 and Perot in 1993. It took a new democrat to get my interest back. Don't think I would refer to myself as either evil or a hoser just someone who thinks independently of the same old song and dance garbage.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. Welcome, then!

Or welcome back. :hi:

And a good sense of humor helps to survive this place.

Some of my best friends are evil hosers. Great people.

[lucidmadman]

7. A doofus...

Vote with your 'head', not your 'heart'...

If I voted with my 'heart' in this primary I'd vote for DK. With my 'head' JFK...

'We'll be lookin' real good in August with JFK as the candidate...
Solid, professional, can-do...

[ulysses]

8. hey! One for "no longer a Democrat".

Care to testify?

[JohnLocke]

9. A *********************

[ulysses]

16. aww, c'mon and say it. "Assholes".

Let's not censor ourselves. I've certainly been called worse over the same issue.

Still, though, a question - are Democrats who voted for Bush similarly assholes, or are they "targeted voters" or some such?

[KG]

10. is a democrat who voted for the chimp in 2000

still a democrat?

[Terwilliger]

11. no no no...they're Dixiecrats...they wouldnt have voted for Gore anyway

so it's been said here, at least

[KG]

13. still trying to wrap my fevered brain around that one

dems. that voted for the chimp - dixiecrats and forgiven.

dems that voted for nader - traitors and must be killed.

:wtf:

[ulysses]

14. my point.

:D

[lifelong_Dem]

31. Wrong

Dixiecrats aren't "forgiven" - they're simply written off as a lost cause.

Lots of us hope that Nader voters don't fall into that same category.

[Terwilliger]

54. why are they still Democrats?

why dont they go over to the party they're supposedly a "lost cause" over?

[Dr Fate]

15. I vote "Still a DEM"...

because I voted Nader in 2000 and I know I'm a Democrat...

But it's up to the individual and how he views himself, rather than how others do!... I suppose...

[RapidCreek]

17. Other...I am no longer a registered democrat but an independant

who voted for Gore.

RC

[Tactical Progressive]

18. OTHER - Sorry, but there's no blanket immunity

from their dishonest "Not a dime's worth of difference" demagoguery. Nor was it a mistake as in taking the wrong turn is a mistake: Greens were repeatedly admonished about both the intellectual dishonesty of their 'Republicrat' propaganda, and the practical danger of their disavowal of the realities of grown-up electoral politics.

It is absurd to consider them Democrats in good standing.

I consider them at best Democrats who have alot of debt, ideological and intellectual, to pay. Alot.

To my mind they are categorically: "Democrats on probation"

And that's generous.

[ulysses]

19. I don't recall asking for "immunity".

Thanks for your candor.

[Tactical Progressive]

22. That's exactly what you were asking for

A technical definition of who's a Democrat is anyone that registers as one. Your question was obviously more than that.

Sorry if you don't like my answer.

[ulysses]

23. no.

If you're looking for ulterior motives, I'm trying to find out who would like to drum me out of the party. I give a rat's fat ass about who wants to "give me immunity" or "forgive me" - I'm not asking for either one. As a liberal Democrat, I'm just trying to figure out who my inter-party enemies are.

[Tactical Progressive]

26. Maybe I'm missing something

but you sure sound like you want to understand how Democrats & Progressives view what you did in 2000, and I told you.

If you don't like the term 'immunity' then pick another one, but stop putting things in quotes that I never said like forgiveness.

I think I gave you a version of exactly what you were looking for, but you just don't like that version. As I said, you're a Democrat if you register as one. So your question was by definition, broader than that.

[ulysses]

28. trust me, friend.

I understand how Democrats and progressives view what I did in 2000 (evil bastard that I am) and the polls are mixed. That wasn't my question, though. I don't much care how anyone views what "I" did in 2000, as I've long since reconciled myself to it and am not sorry for it.

Thanks for helping me make my point, though.

[Dr Fate]

21. What have you done for DEMS?

You are full of it. A lot of Nader voters are very active with their local DEM organizations, like me. How 'bout you?

[Tactical Progressive]

25. Not vote for Nader, that's what.

And not spread the dishonesty about there being no difference.
More than that: Not actually even believing the dishonesty about there being no difference.

I do most of my fighting on the net. You're right that I should volunteer, and maybe I will, but that's not what this question is about. It's about betraying the political power of your group, and the question of ideological amnesty, as it were. At least as I'm interpreting it.

And by that measure, I don't understand why anybody, even Nader voters, would think anything but that they have something to make up for.

[ulysses]

29. ...

And by that measure, I don't understand why anybody, even Nader voters, would think anything but that they have something to make up for.

Keep pondering that whipping-boy strategy.

[Tactical Progressive]

36. There's no pondering

and there's no whipping-boy strategy. That's silly.

There is simply my and many other's support for any centrist compromise or candidates that the Democrats want to make, based on the recognition that the left side of the Progressive spectrum, my side, can't be trusted to behave with electoral maturity.

[ulysses]

38. "That's silly" - no, that's reality.

There is simply my and many other's support for any centrist compromise or candidates that the Democrats want to make, based on the recognition that the left side of the Progressive spectrum, my side, can't be trusted to behave with electoral maturity.

Please, define "electoral maturity", oh mature one. :D

[Tactical Progressive]

41. You know exactly what electoral maturity is

It's what left-Progressives have proven they can't be counted on to exhibit on election day.

[ulysses]

44. I do hope that you'll pardon me

if I put a little more stock in my own deliberations than in your arrogant wankery.

Question: do you *want* progressive votes?

[Tactical Progressive]

46. Your "deliberations" gave us Cheney and Bush

I didn't know you could call people things like 'arrogant wanker' under the new rules. Fine by me, but here I've been avoiding pointing out how petulant and defensive you sound. And you're kidding yourself if you believe you've resolved your behavior within yourself. You wouldn't be asking questions like you did, nor whining about the answers if you had.

And no, to be honest, I don't want progressive votes from the sanctimonious ideologue contingent on the left. They simply can't be counted on, and I'd rather have Democrats shift to the center than worrying about how much compromise an ideologue will brook before taking their vote and stomping home. That's how we ended up here.

[Terwilliger]

49. Yeah, so Democrats aren't partisans and shouldn't be working against

Republicans


that seems to be your slant...so, get rid of the two parties in favor of a single party?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

20. I was tempted to vote "Just a rich college kid"

because that's pretty accurate.

[ulysses]

24. Hi there, I'm John.

I'm 35, educated, and I make less than 18k/year as an elementary school math teacher. I voted for Nader. Twice.

And I'm not sorry. Hell with your definitions of "accurate".

[Hippo_Tron]

30. As much as I don't like Nader running for president...

Do you really think that you are helping the problem by pissing off people who support Nader?

[ulysses]

32. are you asking me?

If I'm pissing off Nader supporters, I'd truly like to know. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Whoops I misread the poll question...

I thought it read "do you still identify people who voted for Nader in 2000 as democrats". Ignore everything I just said.

[Nlighten1]

33. Watch this movie...

http://gnn.tv/countdown/

This is how I envision a Democrat talking...yet...not ONE of the current candidates even come close to this...

[ulysses]

34. I'd love to read more from anyone

who voted other than #1.

[KG]

35. i'd love to see a companion poll

about the dems that voted for the moron. they outnumber the dems that voted for nader. where's the vitriol for them? :shrug:

[ulysses]

37. they're all forgiven

for having voted in their own interest. You *know* the left gets nothing like the same consideration.

[Terwilliger]

39. b/c they're all quasi-marxist

left-wing fringe on a mission to subvert capitalism and destroy America!!

[ulysses]

40. that much is obvious, yes.

:crazy:

[Tactical Progressive]

45. The left doesn't deserve the same consideration

You're expected to understand both politics and elections if you want to be on the left. It's a higher standard, as I see it, and one that many of my fellow left-Progressives haven't lived up to.

Any Dem who votes BushCo has alot to answer for, but let's face it, if you're a Conservative Democrat you're pretty much in the pool of voters that everybody lies to to get their vote. They're more like customers, not held in anywhere near the trust that Progressives are and should be held to.

Progressives pretty much stabbed Democrats in the back in 2000. It's a matter of betrayal.

[Terwilliger]

48. uhhh.....who....when....which????

What are you talking about progressives stabbed somebody in the back in 2000? What are you talking about?

[mdmc]

43. If Raygun Dems

are dems, then dems are dems.

[Unforgiven]

47. Other Please Elaborate.......

may consider him/herself a Democrat or not, but helped to contribute to the mayhem of the 2000 elections/selections by siphoning votes from Gore. This was a boon to the RepubliCONs.

Greens should have known better, there was so much to loose. And now we have the proof. Ugh!

Greens need to build their base from the ground up, not the reverse, if they ever want be taken seriously.

[Terwilliger]

50. what about Dems that voted for Bush?

There were SO MANY more of them than leftist Dems who voted for Nader? Any "should have known better" for them?

[Unforgiven]

51. Why are we

discussing dems who voted for Bush? We are beating up Greens here please stick to the subject.

[Terwilliger]

53. Dems that voted for Bush are rarely (if ever) criticized

and they're the ones that cost Democrats the election

Al From himself has said that Nader did not cost Gore the election.

[Unforgiven]

55. Couldn't

have helped either. As far as the dems voting for Bush, it's well...
unthinkable, and I simply don't understand it, and never will.

What were these people thinking?

Do you have any access to actual numbers nation wide for the 2000 election? I'm curious if that data would be available from one source with out having to go state, or for that matter individual counties for that info.

[KG]

52. it's bizarre

it's like the dems that ACTUALLY VOTED FOR THE CHIMP don't exist for these people. nope, SO much easier the slam those that didn't vote for gore.

they're never going to admit that it was dems that voted for the chimp because clinton got a blow job that cost gore a slam dunk walk off win. :eyes:

[Unforgiven]

56. What About

the shenanigans in Florida? The R's needed that state, and they stole it. Plain and simple. It's more than Dem's voting democrat?

The masters planned well and still only barely were able to steal it through the supreme court.

[Tactical Progressive]

57. It's not bizarre,

it's greens who don't own up to what they did in 2000. Like you here pointing to anyone but yourself. Or the person who started this thread, who's so resolved the issue inside of himself that he has to come to a board to ask loaded questions about it; who's so resolved the issue that he gets all pissy whenever anyone answers the question he posed.

That's bizarre.

Listen, Chimpo-Dems deserve and get plenty of scorn, but at least they didn't stab the left in the political back. Progressives should be the people Dems can count on. Think of how nice it would have been, to be able to tell Conservative Democrats whatever they wanted to hear, without having to worry about politically adolescent lefties throwing fits because they don't understand word-one about politics.

Worse than even that was the dishonest 'not a dime's worth of difference' mantra that the greens used against the rest of the left. How sleazy was that? How many centrist Democrats and Independents did that turn off from voting Democratic? How many 'Bush Democrats' and 'Bush Independents' did it help create? How many Senate and House seats did it help lose? Besides all the votes in Florida.

Look at you all innocent. My attitude is that the green actions in 2000 deserve much more scorn than mushy traitor-Dems in the middle, and yes we dislike them too, so stop whining that you're being picked on. More importantly is that practically speaking, greenie undependability warrants Democratic party moves to the center. Which is tough for far-left Progressives like myself, but an absolute necessity as I see it. Left-Progressives simply can't be counted on to risk doing otherwise, until we see tangible proof that they've grown up. Unfortunately I can still hear resonances of the political immaturity that gave us BushCo, like in this thread.

[Terwilliger]

60. Well sir...I hope you do well on your quest

to believe you're anything resembling progressive

When you stop bitching at real progressives, maybe you can figure out why they don't give shit-one about your sad state of political surrender.

[Tactical Progressive]

61. Greens have no influence in this election cycle

Their betrayal of America in 2000 has seen to that. So shit away. Democrats and even Progressives like myself are smart enough to toss all green baggage this time around, and it's already making for a better election than 2000.

I'm doing extraordinarily well with Wesley Clark, thank you.

[Michael Harrington]

58. It better damn well be

"Still a Democrat", or else I'll have to leave...

That's the funny thing about everyone who is bashing Wesley Clark: He's voted more times for a Democrat for President than I have.

(Just to recap: voted for Mike D in '88, Clinton in '92, neither in '96 and for Nader in 2000. If I lived in a competetive state, I might have forced myself to vote for Gore, but I don't, so I didn't.)

[Dover]

59. They are likely a Green OR a Progressive Democrat

But they no longer accept the current Dem leadership which has shifted too far to the right to accomodate their issues.