Dem centrists! What do you want?

[ulysses]

Do you want party progressives gone from the party? Want them to be quiet and just vote? Want them to have an equal say in the direction of the party? Want more concession to the GOP agenda? Less?

Help me out here. I really do want to know.

[FreeperSlayer]

1. I want...

Bush out! Straight up the f*** out. Nothing else. Out.

[ulysses]

2. ok.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. Dupe

n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreeperSlayer]

4. No it's not

It was a "Supreme" screwing that got the Shrubstitute elected.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Catfish]

16. Logical error

Winning TN has absolutely nothing to do with winning the Presidency. If Gore had won TN and lost all other states, would he have won the Presidency? For some reason, it's a favorite quip of freepers.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catfish]

21. I didn't mean to offend you

Seriously, I've only known right wing types to say this and I've heard it many times. I've never known a Democrat to focus on this point given that an election was stolen. Even living in TN, aren't you more concerned about what happened in Florida? I think that's what cost Gore the election. I live in WV and Gore lost this state as well, I don't blame him. Republicans used social issues and distorted Gore's positions in the South and in rural states, I blame them.

The logical problem with your feeling that he gave up campaigning in TN too early is that he was probably in another state with more electoral votes and won that state.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Home state

It is a maxim of electoral politics that you win your home state. He didn't. That's pretty damn bad.

[Catfish]

24. Maybe

but it doesn't concern me much. With a National election, I'm more concerned about overall electoral votes. The way social issues play in the South, it's tough for a Democrat, home state or not.

[Astarho]

26. Eventhough there were allegations

of voter fraud in TN that may be just as bad or possibly worse than FL. As far as I know, they have never been investigated.

[Catfish]

29. Yes

I remember reading about them months after the election. You know, it's disheartening, I don't have much faith in our voting system anyplace in this country anymore.

[HereSince1628]

5. I you do whats _right_ there will be nothing _left_

or words to that effect.

[Union Thug]

6. Having argued...

repeatedly with a guy on a local seattle dems list, it really seems like they want anyone with a progressive bone in their body removed from the party. His opinion was that "we don't need antiquated New Deal Policies" because the political climate had moved decidedly to the right. To this guy, progressives are antiquated baggage to be discarded by the new Corporate fuelled Dems. If this is the case, I'm registering as a Green. If the Democratic party is going the way of the Liebermans, I'm going the way of my values and heart, which today is represented best by Dennis Kucinich. Beyond him, it seems like the Greens match my values better than any of the Dems.

This is not to say that I won't support the Dem candidate for Pres, as I believe that we need to expel George "little Caesar" Bush from the whitehouse by whatever means are available to us.

[FreeperSlayer]

9. Brother, I hear ya!

I've been extremely pissed about the entire "political" institution for oh, about 25 years now. I'll do whatever in the hell it takes to defeat BushCo, and then we can go from there.
Right here, right now, we've got to get AT LEAST one branch of the legislature. The Senate is a possibility; DeLay's got the House sewn up through the next term. We got the "Supreme" screwing.
The Executive branch is ours.
BUSH OUT!

[Catfish]

7. Not sure if I'm a centrist

I don't "hate" the DLC, I'm in favor of free trade. I'd say that on economic issues I'm more moderate than many Democrats but I'm very liberal on almost all social issues (I do know that there's a convergence between economic and social issues).

As far as wanting anyone gone from the party or wanting to deny equal say to anyone, absolutely not. I'm proud of my party and want it to be inclusive, want people with differing views to be welcome. Only types I'd toss would be racists, homophobes, etc.

I think the way that a group gains power in a party is by running candidates, working with candidates, and VOTING.

As far as the GOP agenda, I want no part of it because even if I agree with a particular issue, their motives are evil. Besides, they generally mean the opposite of what they say. Leave no child behind and compassionate conservative being just two of many examples.

Regardless of issues, my main concern at this moment is getting rid of Bush.

[FreeperSlayer]

12. Catfish, damn straight..

..Bush Out!
Folks, we can sort out our differences later.

[Catfish]

15. Very true

We must get rid of Bush and NOTHING else is as important to me.

[petrock2004]

17. not sure either

but i positively agree with everything you said. :D

thanks for saying it so i didn't have to hehehe

[rman]

34. Is it that progressives do want unfree trade?

I don't think so.
Regulated trade, yes. Why? Well, we can all see where no-bars-hold corporation-controlled trade leads to. Privatisation, deregulation, voluntary self-regulation, corruption, fraud, unemployment, "trickle-up economics", poverty; an anti-social society. Where is that going to end? Lawless trade?

Do we ever get to voluntarily regulate ourselves? I'm not holding my breath for that. This so called free trade is free only for corporations. I don't understand why anyone except corporations would be in favor of this kind of "free trade".

[ulysses]

38. that's what the teevee told me!

Libruls are just another name for dam socialismists, that hate 'Murica. Jesus tol' me that, its in the bible. Libruls wan'na make me pour, an' keep me down and give mah job to some messican! I heard it frum Rush! Rush don' lye!

Whatever powers that be help me, I'm this shy of blowing a gasket. :mad:

edit: not on you, rman.

[Dr Fate]

8. DEM centrists want:

Secure jobs
not to have to worry about healthcare & SS
better education for the kids
national security that works

Most of them are not worried about the "deep" social issues, or even the implications of Bush's FP...

We can get the moderate DEMs active because Liberal DEMS want all of these things I listed as well- it's up to the candidate to define us in a way that is appealing to both centrists/Independents and Liberals...

[Catfish]

14. Agree

For now, with so much at stake, I think we should concentrate more on what we agree on, basic values.

[ulysses]

25. maybe I should have been more specific.

Secure jobs
not to have to worry about healthcare & SS
better education for the kids
national security that works

The problem is, Fate, that the center seems content, at times anyway, with pretty words that don't produce on these issues. Secure jobs - do candidate promises suffice? Health care and social security - ss and the part of health care that isn't exposed to the market are paid for via tax money. We have a quandary, assuming that the Dem centrists still want fewer taxes. Better education - are vouchers the ticket, really? If not, what? National security that works - how?

So, ok. Not so much "what do Dem centrists want", but "what do Dem centrists want to do".

[demothinker]

10. Wouldn't call myself "centrist"...

but I would call myself a moderate Democrat (is there a difference? :) ).

I want less concession to the GOP agenda and for the party progressives to have just as much say in the direction of the party as anyone else. That being said, I don't want a shift to the extreme left, either. An almost shutting down of the GOP agenda, a little more nudging to the left in the country in several areas, and a giant push to the left in a few others (i.e. health care, education), and I'd be happy.

The conflict of ideas in the Democratic party, despite being our downfall at times, is the strength of our side-we celebrate (most of the time) the differences in our party and our country instead of insisting on blind obedience to a particular agenda. I celebrate all members and of our party and their ideas, conservative, moderate, and liberal, except those that are DINOs-they're frauds that are for some political reason calling themselves a Democrat instead of Republican, and IMO are worse than true Republicans that stand on the strength of their convictions.

[Cascadian]

11. If they want them to leave, guess where they will go?

Do they really want them to go to the Greens? The Centrist types NEED the progressives. They need them especially now to get Bush out of the White House. If they insist on ailienating those on the left, they are only hurting themselves. Unfortunately, I think they do not realize that!

:eyes:


John

[petrock2004]

19. IMO,

and perhaps i'm taking this out of context, but i see a lot more dissatisfaction coming from the progressives than from the centrists. i could be wrong, but i think i've run into a lot more "get out of our party" type stuff from the left-wingers than from the mods.

but personally i think anybody who doesn't worship the almighty dollar is welcome in my political party! :D

i'll open my arms to anyone who wants to vote bush out of the white house, and we should all work very hard to not alienate any democrats, because you're right, it does only hurt the party.

[randr]

18. The real question is what do the progressives want.

It will be the huge majority of centrist peoples from both parties that show Bush the door. The progressives, of which I am one, have sat out the last few elections in one way or another and have never claimed, not been offered, their rightfull seat at the table. The issues of open government, fair trade, human rights, the environment, and the emergence of a constitutional ethos belong to us. If we want to play we will have to deliver our votes. We are on the cusp of replacing the far right in being able to influence decisions. We can not become complacent. Nothing can be accomplished without effort.

[JDPhD]

23. I want a party where pro-lifers can feel at home too.

As a pro-life Democrat, I want the party to stop taking its orders from NARAL. Being pro-choice should not not be a limus test for candidates and judges who the party will support. This issue should be out of the courts and out of Congress and left to the states to decide. Do this one thing and people like me would no longer feel alienated in our own party. I also believe that this one change would create an overwhleming Democratic majority, because I know lots of people who believe in social justice but who vote Republican anyway--just because they can't stand the idea of the Democratic party supporting the killing of innocent babies. Just give-in on this one issue--to the point of getting it out of the courts and out of Congress--and I would be happy.

I don't bring this up to start an argument about abortion, but just to answer your question about what I want.

[ulysses]

27. much as I appreciate your candor,

I doubt you're going to get much sympathy demanding that the Democratic Party abandon reproductive rights. Nor should you.

Being pro-choice should not not be a limus test for candidates and judges who the party will support.

Sure it should.

You'll get all sorts of opinions regarding human rights, taxes, education, welfare, etc., but thank god we're united on reproductive rights.

[randr]

28. All Democrats are pro-life

One difference amoung us is that people on the choice side see the causes of unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortions as weaknesses in our societies ability to care for and educate itself. The fact that many women are not secure enough to bear and raise their babies is an indictment on us all. When the world is safe for children, abortions may become a thing of the past.
As a side note it is important to remember that the Roe v Wade decision had to do with the fact that the laws against abortion were not being imposed fairly and thus were found unconstitutional. The ruling had less to do with condoning abortions than with equal treatment under the law. At the time of the decision it was widely known that wealthy people, of all religious persuasions, had access to abortions without legal or life threatening repercussions. It was the poor who were suffering with loss of lives and a legal system designed to intimidate them.
When it comes to the issues of making the world safer for children I am glad you are on the right side.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. How do you define centrist?

I support John Kerry because I believe he has very good liberal ideals and will make a great president. Does that make me a centrist because I don't support an anti-resolution candidate?

[ulysses]

35. I trust that DU centrists will identify themselves.

In my book, supporting Kerry doesn't make you a centrist (I'm a leftist in support of Dean, who isn't), although I'm interested in hearing your rationale.

[Iverson]

32. Speaking as an illogical left-wing extremist ...

... when I read a thread entitled "The Democratic Leadership Council is Correct" and this comment within it,

"Then we never win an election.
Would that make you happy? Hell, we used to be the party OF the people. So why don't we try representing them for once instead of socialists, Nader voters, aging hippies and the like."

I get the impression that centrists want progressives simply gone. Fortunately, not all centrists identify with the DLC.

[ulysses]

36. I think I replied to that very post.

:)

I know, without a doubt, that there are a great many centrists who would like for the left to simply vanish. At the same time, I know, with you, that not all centrists are cut of the same cloth (a close reading we're not likely to be allowed in return). Ah well.

[greendog]

33. The real question.....

...do Dem centrists want American workers to compete with sweatshop, prison, and slave labor.

[Snappy]

37. Compromise

To some that is a negative concept. I feel that some of us must compromise this time. I am in the Green Party but will vote for a Dem for Pres., any Dem. America cannot afford another term of the Neo Fascists. The Repubs dominate the Senate and House. America will be down the drain if they also control the Supreme Court.

I feel that America is a Plutocracy. The Dems by and large have folded to the Corporations. The American people are mostly still confused as to what is happening to the Middle Class. The Neo Fascists are striving to decimate the Middle Class and turn America into a Third World Country and on the way to bankrupting the American economy. The general aim is to Globalize marketing and mfg. and control of world markets by the Neo Fascists and the Multi Natl. Corps

[MisterC2003]

39. Sadly, I think you're onto something there

The destruction of the American middle class is definitely on the BFEE agenda, and I fear that some Dem "centrists" are just another variant on the BFEE. As I understand it, every last Senator and most members of the Repubs are millionaires. Regular folks may not understand the huge gulf that exists between the millionaires in Congress and themselves, but the difference is becoming increasingly clear.

What I'm interested in is, how many Dem centrists are proponents of free, unregulated trade? You willing to let the American middle class go down the toilet to keep the Invisible Hand working the way you think it should?

[nemo137]

40. i want a government that

stays out of my wallet, my bedroom,and my church, isn't reckless, and that provides me with some economic security, me (at this point, and in the future my kids) with decent schools and maybe some healthcare. if it does something to stop major corporations from screwing me over, all the better. i think that's all that anyone wants, really.