Russert: Moore now admits that his calling Bush a deserter was a joke.

[The Night Owl]

Did anyone watching today's Meet The Press hear Russert say that Moore has recently admitted that his comment about Bush being a deserter was a joke?

WTF! That better not be true. Does anyone know?

[ewagner]

1. Saw that

That was news to me. When did that come out?

[The Night Owl]

2. On today's Meet The Press...

If Russert put out a blatant lie that Moore said he was joking when he called Bush a deserter, I am going to burst a vein.

If Moore has backed off the charge that Bush is a deserter, my entire head will explode.

[Lone_Wolf]

39. MSNBC/GE

Instead of looking at NBC and MSNBC as news services, people would be better served if they looked at them as networks dedicated to corporate relations. Their shows are designed to provide you with information that is in the corporations interest. Shows like MTP and Hardball are hour long commercials that pretend to be objective.

NBC is owned in part by GE. GE, like Halliburton, is a huge government contractor. They have a huge financial stake in who the next President is. As a defense contractor, it is logical for them to promote viewpoints, candidates, etc. who are jingoistic:

http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=23

[JohnOneillsMemory]

47. And CBS/60 Min's said tonight GE invests in 'rogue nations.' ouch. n/t

[Stephanie]

3. Here's MM's site:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

[Kira]

4. that's not what he is saying on his website

www.michaelmoore.com I hope he calls him on this.

[MrBenchley]

5. So Russert

and all the rest made all this fuss about a joke?

Ho-kay.

[abcdan]

42. disgusted by their disgust

What bothered me most about the NBC's round table discussion about the "deserter" comment was how disgusted they were by it, but couldn't care less about Bush's pathetic military record.

Which is more egregious--a film director calling the president a "deserter" (as opposed to one who went AWOL), or a president who went AWOL?

It was funny to see them dance around and brush over Bush's record. Brokaw responding to Moore's comment said, "That's the phrase that he used. It was. And we do know that he had a big absentee record as a National Guard member in Alabama. That's fixed. But desertion..."

What did he mean by "That's fixed"? Did he mean that it's old news, therefore it's not worth talking about? Reading his quote doesn't do as much justice as watching Brokaw say it. It pained him.

[HootieMcBoob]

6. Did Russert say where or when Moore said this?

Or was he just pulling lies out of his ass again? It's nowhere on Moore's website. In fact Moore has said just the opposite.

[The Night Owl]

7. No. Russert just threw the charge out there. Idiot Broder bought it too.

This is outrageous! How can these people get away with this crap? I am freaking livid right now. What can we do about this?

[salinen]

9. Ooops! No WMD's

We need to define the word "joke" timmy the "pig fucker" russert.

[w13rd0]

10. Put someone in the White House...

...and others in the Congress, that will rightly re-regulate the media, decentralizing control of editorial authority, and bringing small time players back into the broadcast spectrum.

It has gotten quite blatant (the bias). More should wake up, or they'll be sheep to the slaughter.

[dennis4868]

8. When Clinton's Military Record Came Into Question....

it was not a joke for MTP!

[ripplingwater]

11. Not accoding to his interview with Amy

Listen to what he said in www.democracynow.org this past week - doesn't sound like he is joking about it there... He's dead serious, just like he is in his site.

[peekaloo]

12. He's challenging people to prove it's NOT true.

Lil Timmy is full o'fecal matter.

The only backtrack Moore has made recently is an attempt to clarify a satirical statement made in 'Dude.....' regarding Mumia Abu-Jamal. An attempt at satire that backfired with Mumia supporters.

[Mrs. Overall]

35. I saw the interview live on Free Speech TV

and Michael Moore was NOT joking. In fact he was talking in a somewhat quiet, low, very serious tone as he discussed the awol/deserter issue and he gave facts. Usually, he jokes quite a bit with Amy when she interviews him, but this time he did not.
Where is Russert getting this information?

[BiggJawn]

50. "Where is Russert getting this information?" out of his Butthole...

What can we expect from the "liberal" Media? Pat yourselves on the back, fellow Evil DU'ers, we caught it right off, but the Murkan Sheeple will eat it up like Gospel because "My Tee-Vee said thet, an' the Tee-Vee don' lie!"

"To everything Smear, Smear, Smear...."
Karl Rove's lullaby.

[leesa]

13. The documentation for the lost years during Bush's TANG time is

quite easy to find. Wonder how long these traitor's will keep up the pretense?

[Catshrink]

Have you seen the "Top Gun" video?

Check it out....

http://www.anti-bush.com/topgun.html

Way cool.

[RebelOne]

57. That was originally on the BushFlash.com Web site.

[Toots]

14. Maybe he said Bush* was a joke ~ especially for deserting

or probably more accurate leaving his unit. As so many right-wingers have so elequently stated, The military doesn't give honorable discharges to deserters. Bush* does have an honorable discharge, no getting around that. However it doesn't hurt to bring up questions about his military service and why he won't release his records. I for one am curious as to what he did to warrant a "Special Commission".

[1songbird]

15. No, Michael does not joke like that. He has written about this somewhat

in his latest book I believe. Russert wants Clark to retract the statement so that people won't start questioning. I missed the interview but I sincerely hope that Clark did not fall for it.

[evil_orange_cat]

16. AWOL is different from desertion...

Bush was AWOL... not a deserter. ;)

[LeahMira]

30. Question!

Bush was AWOL... not a deserter.

What exactly is the difference?

[The Night Owl]

44. The difference between Desertion and AWOL...

Section 885. Art. 85. Desertion

(a) Any member of the armed forces who -
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit,
organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away
therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent
to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed
forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another
one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he
has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed
service except when authorized by the United States;
is guilty of desertion.
(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after
tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance,
quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to
remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.
(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert
shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by
death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but
if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by
such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

Section 886. Art. 86. Absence without leave

Any member of the armed forces who, without authority -
(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time
prescribed;
(2) goes from that place; or
(3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit,
organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at
the time prescribed;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/10/subtitles/a/parts/ii/chapters/47/subchapters/x/sections/section%5F885.html


I am no lawyer, but to me, the difference between Desertion and going AWOL seems like a difference without a distinction.

Maybe that's just me.

:shrug:

[Terwilliger]

17. That doesn't square with his reaction to Jennings on his website

So, if he DOES say he was joking, then someone will need to point out that reply.

[Cocoa]

18. Clark continues to handle this perfectly

really, he couldn't possibly be handling this better. He's expressing his sincere opinion that Bush's record as president is what he's focused on, and at the same time strongly supporting Moore's right to speak his mind.

And he's not just saying he supports Moore's right to say it, he's encouraging him to say it. He's not going along with the idea that Moore is wrong for saying it.

[hippiechick]

21. .. and he's inviting others to look into it ...

... by saying he hasn't 'looked into it' on his own, he's leaving the question out there for any researcher/digger/journalist to get to
the question and cough up the truth.

:hippie:

[Sterling]

24. If it;s true just say it.

I am so tired of game players. Tell the truth or get off the stage.

[HootieMcBoob]

19. from the transcript

Here's exactly what they said. Russert clearly says that Moore in now saying it was a joke. I wonder if Michael Moore will respond to this.

MR. BRODER:  Tim, I was at the event where Michael Moore did that introduction and asked General Clark about it immediately after the event.  I couldn't believe that he didn't kill that snake immediately.  And here it is eight days later...

MR. BROKAW:  Right.

MR. BRODER:  ...and he's still trying to answer that question.

MR. RUSSERT:  Well, Michael Moore is now saying it was a joke.

MR. BRODER:  It was not a joke.

MS. BORGER:  Well, it wasn't.

MR. BROKAW:  But, also, Clark just a few moments ago, "I haven't checked out those allegations.  I had been aware of them."

MS. BORGER:  Why not?

MR. BROKAW:  That's the phrase that he used.  It was.  And we do know that he had a big absentee record as a National Guard member in Alabama.  That's fixed.  But desertion...

MR. BROWNSTEIN:  ...is a big--it's definitely...

MR. BROKAW:  ...is a very serious, felonious rap.

MR. RUSSERT:  Punishable by death.

MR. BROKAW:  Right.

MS. BORGER:  Also, in terms of veterans, you know, Clark has been saying, or said once, "I'm a general, and Kerry was a lieutenant," which didn't go over very well with the veterans that were traveling around with John Kerry, nor did it go over very well with John Kerry, who said, "Lots of lieutenants have shed blood."

MR. RUSSERT:  That's why Fritz Hollings, the senator from South Carolina, came here and said, "When we go to South Carolina..."

MS. BORGER:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  "...we'll find out there are a lot more lieutenants than generals."

MS. BORGER:  Right.

MR. RUSSERT:  We're going to take a quick break and come back and talk about John Kerry.  There have only been three sitting members of Congress ever elected to the White House.  Why?  Right after this.

[Terwilliger]

20. "That's fixed." What's fixed? What is Brokaw talking about???

MR. BROKAW: That's the phrase that he used. It was. And we do know that he had a big absentee record as a National Guard member in Alabama. That's fixed. But desertion...

Fixed? Fixed how?

[Sterling]

25. Daddy fixed it.

Why do you hate America so much that you would question George the 1sts right to premanuptia?

:eyes:

[The Night Owl]

26. There you have it, folks! A complete fabrication by Russert and NBC.

I am looking forward to Moore's response to Russert's fabrication.

Can Moore sue Russert and NBC for such an outright lie? If so, I would send Moore a lot of money to help him put that smug pig Russert in his place.

[OneTwentyoNine]

32. Doubt if he could sue

Its not really any kind of slander,just a lie about what Moore said or re-canted.

Russert is one boot-licking piece of crap though..

David

[0rganism]

54. Problem is, Moore is a "public figure", so he'd need to prove intent

Unlike slander of a normal shmoe, celebrities and politicians have to prove malicious intent to deceive.

Russert would say, "oh, I was mistaken, blah blah blah."

Judge would say, "case dismissed."

But... if Moore could prove malicious intent to deceive, Russert's credibility would take a huge blow.

[kentuck]

27. I had read documents ...

when this story first broke that the Bush records went to Denver, CO and were "cleaned" up on request and that he was able to get his honorable discharge from the Guard? However, I have not been able to retrieve those documents or any stories about this since that time. I had actually saved those on hard drive but my computer crashed and I lost that information. Does anyone out there have any information about his military records being shipped to Denver? I would love to read those again...

[joanski01]

37. I hope someone has those

stories, Kentuck. I recall that the general who cleaned up the records (I can't recall his name now) was promoted to the Commander of the entire Air National Guard.

[NewJeffCT]

53. death penalty?

Wow, I might change my mind on my long standing opposition to capital punishment if that were true for desertion...

(just kidding, folks)

[reprobate]

22. Anyone have email address for MTP or Russert?

Went to their web page but for some reason their contact list won't work for me.

I have a bunch of sh*t I want to sent the gentleman.

[The Night Owl]

23. [e-mail]

Here is the letter I sent MTP...

Exactly where did Tim Russert get the idea that Moore recently said he was joking when he called Bush a deserter? Did Russert just make up the charge that Moore backed off comments about Bush being a deserter? Hello?

If I were Michael Moore, I would bring legal action against you people. If I were head of NBC, I would fire Russert immediately.

[Mrs. Overall]

38. Thanks for the address--

I just emailed MTP and sent an email to Michael Moore, hoping that he will say some things about this rumour.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Russert is lying again. What a surprise.

[The Night Owl]

40. Russert's lying today really affected me for some reason...

I am used to the media whores lying, but this latest lie by Russert really got me steamed for some reason. I think the fact that he so nonchalantly said something so utterly false is what pissed me off the most.

That Russert lied again does not surprise me. Regardless, we must not allow ourselves to become numb to the lies and deception. We need to be sticks in the mud about everything these GOP shills utter. Every DU member has a responsibility to email NBC and express outrage at Russert's blatant lying.

:grr:

[OneTwentyoNine]

29. Time for a mass E-Mail to NBC,this is GD Bullsh@*

They need to drop Timmy like a bad habit. He's no reporter anyway,just a pimp for Bush and Republicans. Get your ass over to FOX where you belong Tim.

David

[scarface2004]

46. he meant

he is a joke!

[FloridaPat]

31. I watched the show but don't remember him saying that.

He sure was trying to get something out of Clark though

[The Night Owl]

33. Read the transcript. Here is a link to that transcript...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4028066

Here is the relevant excerpt from the transcript of NBC's Meet The Press...

MR. BRODER: Tim, I was at the event where Michael Moore did that introduction and asked General Clark about it immediately after the event. I couldn't believe that he didn't kill that snake immediately. And here it is eight days later...

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MR. BRODER: ...and he's still trying to answer that question.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, Michael Moore is now saying it was a joke.

MR. BRODER: It was not a joke.

Surreal, is it not?

[OneTwentyoNine]

34. Its in the transcript....eom

[Wapsie B]

36. Oh had me going there.

At first I thought it said Timmy admits that HE's a joke.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

41. If true, this is good.

One less reason to attack Clark.
Not to mention the fact that Bush wasn't a "deserter", and that is a serious charge that can't be backed up. AWOL, sure, but not "deserter". Moore should just watch his choice of words since he's now representing the General, thats all.

[raysr]

43. Moore

That's not what he said on "Democracy Now" last nite, deserter it was!

[OneTwentyoNine]

62. He wasn't a deserter?? Yeah he was!

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/afreg/blafi36-2911.htm

Click on view publication and go down to page 4 section 1.5 and tell me what you read. Yeah,this is from the Air Force but its the same in most all branches. Ask anyone who served in WWII about not showing up for a year you'll get the exact same answer: Your ass would be in front of a firing squad.

Bush was not AWOL,he was a fucking deserter plain and simple.

David

[Stephanie]

45. Did someone send the transcript to M Moore yet?

I'm sure he'd like to correct Russert himself!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

48. The sycophants rally around the Achille's heel. The statue tumbles. n/t

[colonel odis]

49. maybe they got to moore......

same way they got to o'neill.

isn't it funny that two people who have specifically criticized the administration in pretty damning ways have (at least one has) backed off.

moore has a family. maybe he got a phone call or was visited by someone who reminded him of that.

not saying he's said his statement was a joke. but if michael moore ever backs off something like that, it'll be because he was threatened.

[spindoctor]

51. Spinsanity.com and factcheck.org recently published some articles

These articles basically negate the whole Bush AWOL theme, although at least one of them did make the comment that he got off easy, probably due to family influence.

These are respectable unbiased sources, so perhaps it is indeed time to drop it. Besides, in Rovian fashion this tale has done its job and will continue to do its job until it slowly fades out.
Now would be a good time to distanciate yourself from it.

[bobbieinok]

52. fastcheck was WRONG

Anyone who followed Martin Heldt's work in 2000 knows the George article was a whitewash.

Nothing to see - move along

[rodbarnett]

56. FacktCheck.org : Bush A Military “Deserter?” Calm Down, Michael

Clark backer Michael Moore calls President Bush a “deserter” for missing Air National Guard drills 31 years ago. Puh-lease!


This one has been around since Bush’s campaign against Al Gore, when a Boston Globe story appeared saying the newspaper could find no record of Bush attending required Air National Guard drills for a full year in 1972-73. Bush says he missed some weekend drills during the period in question, but attended others and later attended extra drills to make up for those he missed. Several news organizations looked into the matter and reached mixed conclusions.

Websites devoted to criticizing Bush have kept the matter under discussion on the Internet ever since. It surfaced again when Michael Moore, the populist author and movie and TV producer, called Bush a “deserter” at a rally supporting retired Gen. Wesley Clark in New Hampshire. Clark then said during a debate that “I think Michael Moore has the right to say whatever he feels about this.”

The fact is Bush was honorably discharged without ever being officially accused of desertion or being away without official leave.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=131

[Woodstock]

58. So? What does the last sentence prove?

It doesn't prove jack.

They gave it away with the "the fact is" nonsense. The fact is also that he was absent without leave. And while there is evidence to support this, Bush has never proved otherwise.

[buycitgo]

59. what a JOKE!

to give you an idea how worthless that site is, here's how they dealt with his SUSPENSION from flying for REFUSING to take a flight physical:

But the Globe said Bush “began to disappear from the Guard’s radar screen” with two years still to run on his six-year commitment, giving up flying for good in 1972

"giving up flying"?????????

anyone slightly conversant with the facts knows why he "gave up" flying.

mr. barnett, do YOU know why he "gave up" flying?

there's SO much more to this story than right wing apologists like Brooks Jackson would have anyone know

all the pResident has to do is release his military records. he should have had plenty of time to clean them up by now. but....guess what, he's already been caught changing them, hasn't he?

nice try though.

who you going to quote next, Reid Irvine, or Brent Bozell?

[spindoctor]

63. Pick your battles

You don't have to convince me on how the game was played. ;)

The point that these sites make (I couldn't find the spinsanity piece, but I'm sure I read it) is that Bush did not went AWOL, he definitely did not desert. Sure, he wimped out. So did Howard Dean, so did Bill Clinton. But what are you fighting here? The establishment or an incompetent Administration?

Let's move on and focus on the real issues.

[Cat Atomic]

61. That's sort of... the whole point.

"Bush was honorably discharged without ever being officially accused of desertion or being away without official leave."

If he weren't the son of a wealthy, well-connected family, he would've been officially charged.

[Dr Fate]

64. Why cant we see his records then?

Like the dates he did show up, what he was trained to do, who he worked with, etc?

[hippyleftist]

55. joke my ass

[Supply Side Jesus]

60. *sniff sniff*

Smells like monkey