Who here has read the Da Vinci Code?

[Melodybe]

I am 1/3 into it and damn, when he said Koyanisquatsi "life out of balance" I almost dropped the book.

My question is does this mean woman are about to take over the world. Not in the near future, but in this next century. He and Hopi legend really seem to be hinting at it or at the very least woman all over the world being treated equally as men.

This is by far one of the most important books I have ever read.

So who here has read it? Any thoughts?

[trumad]

1. God I hope they do

[Melodybe]

4. Have you read it? If not, go out and get it like right now!

It rolls a history of the world, religion, math, and art all into one, with a nice murder mystery to pull it all together. It is amazing, and all of the information about organizations, myths, math, science, biology and architechture is for real.

This book is a classic and will be studied from here on out.

[King Coal]

2. I read it.

I really liked it. The teasers were a little annoying though. I doubt that the Reverend Jerry Falwell would care for it. I also thing Jesus would be quite annoyed with Jerry.

[displacedtexan]

3. Not really. Restoring the balance is a major theme...

and a renaissance of the lost male/female balance, which was thought necessary by so many cultures.
Keep reading.

[JByrd]

5. Wonderful...

thought provoking book. Kinda appropriate for the times.

[Melodybe]

10. Yes that is why I almost dropped the book,

I got my degree in anthropology and knew about the Hopi legend (read up on it and we have Koyanisquatsi on DVD) and an end of these times. I already had a good grasp on all of the things that he talks about, I am just amazed he put it together. It really puts the world into perspective. I was literally shaking, everyone should know the things in this book. Dan Brown is my new hero.

[Mari333]

40. I havent read the book but

Ive studied mythology for over 10 years....one of the most amazing women who I studied was named Marijas Gimbutas, and her archeo-anthropological studies of neolithic and paleolithic Europe is a mind blowing book
Goddesses and Gods of Neolithic Europe
also The Encyclopedia of Myth and Secrets by Barbara Walker is a mind blower
Joseph Campbell and Marijas Gimbutas were good friends..I love his work, and they both share a memorial library at the Pacifica Institute.
Ill read the Da Vinci code too.
Thanks

[Melodybe]

6. That is what i figured, I bet as soon as the US gets a female President

she will fight for the liberties of women all over the world. It will be the beginning of a retun to balance.

God, isn't this a great book!

[Tansy_Gold]

51. Not all women fight for the rights of women

Oh, let's see, can we think of a few, even some of whom call themselves "feminists"?

Phyllis Schlafly
Ann Coulter
Laura Ingraham
Katie Roiphe
Christina Hoff Sommers

Lady Margaret Thatcher was never a liberal.

There are far too many ultra-conservative women in the Arizona state legislature (and a few former ones, too) for me to think that the mere election of a woman to the White House would solve all our many problems.

The DaVinci Code is interesting, but it ain't all true. The problems facing our country and our species and our planet ain't gonna be fixed with simple band-aid tactics.

[Solomon]

7. There was a time in the world when female power was

predominate but that all changed when the paternalistic society came in. Paternalistic society is definitely unbalanced, (look at what the world has been thru since), and the future holds the promise of balancing the male and female principles.

Since man has been dominant for so long, even a slight move to achieve more balance seems to man like "woman are taking over the world". It's analagous to racism. Just to try and level the playing field makes it seem like blacks are getting too much for a lot of whites.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. The problem is a lack of perspective...

Despite the fact that it's impossible to fix thousands of years of injustice in one fell swoop, many of these victim groups seem to think that balance can occur all at once. Try "balancing" a see-saw quickly and you'll see it doesn't really work. We have lost perspective that in the last 80 years, women and minorities have received far more rights than in the last couple of thousand years combined. I know patience is a dirty word to most people, but without patience, there will only be a backlash effect and balance will never be achieved. We still have a long way to go, but we have to get there together now. We have to reach across the lines, on both sides, or else it will never occur.

[HereSince1628]

8. Hmmm,

I like Dan Brown's work, and I hope he continues to write. But I am not sure at all that Dan Brown's writing is any socially important than Dale Brown's writing...

[nostamj]

9. Koyanisquatsi "life out of balance"

have you seen that movie? (with the score by Philip Glass?)

stunning!

the book (Da Vinci Code) is fascinating. not so much for the 'thriller' aspects of the plot, but for the insights into art, math, etc.

i've actually done a line of mugs, t-shirts and mouse pads based on ideas from the book...

[Melodybe]

12. Have it on DVD! Seems like that time is now.

Makes me feel like the RW are the fossils hanging on to this way of life. Thinking about the way they see women assures me of it. They are the last kicks of a daying time, people are moving past it and it scares the hell out of them.

[goddess40]

30. How is the reader?

We love books on tape but sometimes the readers are drones. I guess that since you listened to it all it can't be too bad. I'll admit I'm spoiled by the Harry Potter books. Al Franken did a good job on his book also.

[Retrograde]

45. really atrocious faux french accents

One problem with books on tape is that it's hard sometimes to back up when I hear things that make me go ??What the ...!!???? (Did he really just say that the ultra-stereotypical Englishman takes clotted cream *in* his tea?? Why are they going to Lyons from the Gare St.-Lazare Oor was that Lille? Doesn't matter, wrong station for both.)

I listened to The Da Vinci Code on tape since the wait list at the library was shorter than for the print version. The narrator tries to do all the French speakers in what he thinks is a French accent. With the tape version you apparently miss one episode of feeling superior to the characters by being able decipher a clue several chapters before they do, and it's a little more difficult to do the anagrams. But as for the rest of it....

This was one of the most infuriating books I've encountered in the last year. Gratuitous Catholic-bashing aside, IMHO any book that starts with a disclaimer stating that everything is meticulously researched had better get the bulk of its facts straight. By the end of the 1st tape I was beginning to wonder if the author had actually been to France - or England. And I am still bemused by the concept of the ultra-conservative English lord owning a - wait for it - stretch Jaguar. The supposed authority on cryptanalysis doesn't recognize the most simple codes? The expert on Da Vinci is surprised to find mirror writing in a Leonardo-related clue? It goes on and on and on. It's a page-turner alright, mainly because the reader (or listener) has already solved the puzzle the main characters are spending chapters on and is wanting to GET ON WITH IT.

Read it if you want, but bring a potato masher to deal with all the expository lumps that slow down the threadbare plot. Better yet, read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", which is at least original (and where Brown stole his idea).

Did I mention that the main character, a supposed expert in religious symbolism, who goes on and on about the surpression of the sacred feminine by the Catholic church starts the book at a seminar on Chartres cathedral - aka Notre Dame de Chartres? Yeah, he seems to have conveniently forgotten all about the cult of Mary the Mother of Christ in Catholicism, probably because it doesn't fit with his selection of facts.

linda

[SpiralHawk]

33. "Pitskwani" is the antidote to Koyanisquatsi

Pitskwani means the tools, techniques, and "medicines" that the human beings may use to set things back into balance in the time of Koyanisquatsi.

In the time of the White Buffalo (August 20, 1994), the Whirling Rainbow (Sunbow) will begin to appear more frequently. This will be the sky sign language of the era. The wheels of Koyanisquatsi will be turning wildly.

At this time let the people look to Pitskwani -- their own good knowledge, gifts, traditions, and abilities -- to bring the Sacred Hoop of Life back into balance. It will take all the colors of people, and all the faiths no matter their name. In this way Pitskwani undoes Koyanisquatse. In this way the earth and life is made clean and secure for the next Seven Generation., This is the direction I am walking in, and on this path I find hope and strength.

[MrPrax]

55. Great Flick...seminal

Godfrey Reggio's other two...
Koyaanisqatsi (Nature)and its sequels, Powaqqatsi (man) and Naqoyqatsi(machine) are not as successful as his original Koyaanisqatsi

Philip Glass's music works great with all of them...
good double bill with Paul Schrader's Mishima - A Life in Four Chapters


http://www.koyaanisqatsi.org/films/koyaanisqatsi.php

[qb]

11. This book is awesome.

I have felt for a long time that male-dominated theology was out of whack. Now there is a compelling popular compelling novel that blows apart centuries of religious propaganda. The controversy has hit the headlines, too (Theologians decode The Da Vinci Code...)

I hope this is the start of a truly "New World Order".

I say this as an atheist and as a man, but if we have to have religion, I would much rather see women in charge.

On edit: This post brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department!

[Bozola]

14. Just remember....it's FICTION

There's some interesting bit, to be sure, but his sources are HIGHLY speculative, not to mention some gross inaccuracies.

It's fun, and very light, reading to be sure.

[Melodybe]

16. The story is fiction, but I have read up on almost all of the different

subjects on my own and more stuff than not fits. There is some truth to this book. Have you seen Koyanisquatsi? It is eerie to say the least.

Look I am as skeptical as the next guy/girl but I refuse to think that that we are all just a happy accident. String theory alone justifies some structure to the universe.

[leyton]

18. Indeed.

This is fiction, and it's not going to revolutionize anything. I have a real hard time believing that it's anything more than a conspiracy theory. I mean, it's a good read, and I enjoyed the book immensely, but I need more proof before I hail it as nonfiction.

[Melodybe]

22. i didn't say it was nonfiction

but the stuff about Da Vinci, art, math, and science is pretty dead on. The Religious stuff is where the line is blurred but our history does fit what he is describing. I mean really who is running the world right now? Rich white men, other than Queen Elizabeth, name ten important female politicians that have substantial power over their nations.

Things are definitely out of whack.

[Bozola]

25. I mean he left out the penis references

from "The Madonna of the Rocks".

[Dudley_DUright]

50. I have read all of his books

and sometimes he really screws up the science and mathematics, but I like his storytelling skills all the same.

[grisvador]

15. Balance

in all things - wow that is revolutionary concept if we have not read the Tao De Ching, Aristotle, Einstein, and Lovelock. Dan Brown just said it in an accessible and mainstream book (no mean achievement).

I agree that life is out of balance - and the universe will restore that balance for us if we do not do it. The Universe has ways of restoring balance that we may not like as humans though....

[Melodybe]

19. i thought of the Tao as well, literally everything i have ever been

interested in is winding up in this book. While I am not naive enough to tout this book as "real", many elements in it are correct and should be seriously considered. Light and fun is not how I would describe this book. People should be thinking about everything he mentions, it is worth our time and scrutiny.

[reprobate]

35. Yes, the universe WILL restore balance. But, and it's a big BUT...

The universe cares naught for humankind. We are no more than an mote in the eye of planet earth. Could it be that the current climate change is an attempt by planet earth to dislodge and minimize the effects caused by humanity? Not that it's conscious, just a natural reaction to our meddling.

What goes around comes around, and paybacks a bitch.

[Blue_Chill]

17. Women taking over the world will balance what exactly?

Nothing.

The only goal worth reaching it equality. When men and women are equal yet still special in their own ways the world will be much better off.

[Melodybe]

20. I was kind of being factitious about the women taking over the world

I am much more of the thought that women will be taking an equal role in the how the world is run.

[John BigBootay]

47. YES- That defines "balance." n/t

[Kookaburra]

21. The fundie preachers around here can't stand it...must be something there.

Some of them are devoting entire sermons to debunking this book. One of these guys has even taken out 30 second ads on the radio telling the world of this book and promoting his Sunday morning sermons to dispel any and all inaccuracies in it. Seems to me that if it's just a work of fiction and nothing more, these guys wouldn't get so upset over it.

[bleedingheart]

26. but maybe you are on to something

perhaps this work of "fiction" worries them because their book may be a work of "fiction"...

[elfin]

23. Yes, it is fiction BUT

I think it may have a political impact in our favor. Even tho it is not lableled as "liberal", it does skew that way and the sheeple don't even recognize that.

Just think of the impact of all those "Left Behind" productions and books - they popularize a certain (and wrong IMO) view.

Maybe Brown has widened a genre - the thriller diller with a liberal bent. Away from the courtroom where most of those are and into the religious/historical conspiratorial skeins of power.

[noonwitch]

24. I'm currently reading it, am about 2/3 through.

I've read a lot of books about the lost goddess spirituality, but this is one that has a lot of people reading it, not just women. If many of the author's ideas about the grail myth are true, I'd believe that the RC church, along with a lot of fundamentalist protestants, would do just about anything to keep the knowledge from getting out.

[highlonesome]

27. bloodline of the holy grail

....is an interesting book written by richard gardiner. It's all about this stuff. I haven't read Davinci, but highly recommend this book if you're interested

It basically states that the Holy Grail legends are talking about this -- that is that the Holy Grail was not a literal cup that held the blood of Jesus, but his ancestry that carried his blood to the royal houses of Europe.

[bleedingheart]

29. of course it was the royal houses of europe...

so they could prove their "divine right"...

[Malva Zebrina]

28. I listened to it on an unabridged tape

excellent. I seldom am interested in fiction but there was a lot of information in this book about many subjects--the quest for the grail and much about the orginal goddess worship and how it is carried over into modern day religion without people even knowing.

[barbaraann]

31. I just had a thought!

I wonder if this could finally be the book to counteract all of the damage done by "Atlas Shrugged."

[loudsue]

37. Good thought, Barbaraann....

I also wish some REALLY BRILLIANT author would pen a novel that shows all of the flaws in Ayn Rand's philosophies....that takes her ideas to their full narcissistic development, to show how her philosophy destroys the fabric of evolved civilization.

Ayn Rand was, without a doubt, a really great writer. Unfortunately, she was screwed-up in the head, and has spread her brain virus far and wide to deify the greed creed.

:kick:

[barbaraann]

38. That book has negatively influenced a lot of people I have met.

Just another thought: :-)

I think that The DaVinci Code can counteract her "greed creed" with something positive, which might work better than attacking the flaws in her philosophy; but I'm with you in hoping a great writer comes along with a novel taking the exposure tack. Do you suppose Gore Vidal has thought about that?

[Malva Zebrina]

53. Ayn Rand--well should we take some conisderation to her?

there are a lot of considerations in Randian philosophy that needs to be explored.

Are we all signed in to a Randian philosophy that promotes the surivial of the individual over the collective survival instincts of a society?

I submit, that those who would expect to get tax payer vouchers for the private school education (religious included) of their little "genius" kids who cannot make it in the public schools, because, well because there are too many black and other groups that disrupt the little "geniuses" and cause them to be anxious and afraid and therefore failing and dumb and not able to keep up with the curiculum, and because there are, additionally, dumb and evil teachers who do not recognize the genius in their child, will be in favor of a Randian philosophy. Private schools that recognize their genius child is the answer!!! It does not seem to matter that these private religious schools have no, virtually no, specific means of reporting to we the tax payers or the government as to how they are progressing.
That is best left "secret" so that they can continue to get our moeny to educate the little "geniuses" into the flock of the religion which disdains others.


Let our children be privatized!! in order that we may recognize the genius hidden within!--let our uinrecognized, little geniuses be accoladed by the private school system and give us satisfaction that our childten are indeed far smarter than any public school teacher has recognized, and let that entire , religious school system be paid for by the tax payer--but whatever else our "genius: will graduate from that school recognized as a "genius" . That he/she was on a drug called Ritalin in order to do so, is not, and will not be mentioned. I find that amusing and very sad at the same timel;
Objectivism-=we will do anything to promote the surivival of our own genes--and once survived, we will do anything to maintain that elitism and sense of

[loudsue]

32. It's a great book....Holy Blood, Holy Grail goes into the research

of the Da Vinci Code. In fact, they mention the reference HB,HG in the book.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln is another excellent book about the history of the Church, done by three leading investigative journalists. It was made into a documentary, and showed on BBC many years ago (in the early 80's). The Church got FURIOUS, and all the fundies were running around like headless chickens, freaking out over the research that was presented.

After I read HB,HG, I had always wished someone would make a more readable novel out of the research, and Dan Brown did just that. I thought he did a great job....he's a good writer.

After seeing how much the power structure in this country has bastardized the truth about issues, and how they have slid lies into everything they touch, it was easy for me to see the same type of megalomaniac fundamentalists re-writing (or selectively writing) the Bible.

After seeing the research concerning the cultures involved during the lifetime of Jesus, it becomes really hard to imagine that Jesus was NOT a literal King of the Jews (the Jews, who at the time had no real political power), and it's hard to believe Jesus did NOT have children. Holy Blood, Holy Grail goes into the accounts of the Wedding from the Bible, and makes a great case that it was surely a wedding between two royal bloodlines, joining Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

:kick:

[bobbieinok]

36. Holy Blood, Holy Grail is fun ........ but a lot of the research is ifffy

I'd look up the reference to a statement/claim that I really wanted to check out.

Many times the ftn would refer to an unpublished letter in the Paris archives that had disappeared when the authors went back to check something.

[Tansy_Gold]

44. Don't take "The DaVinci Code" and related works as gospel

And I say this as someone who found the whole thing fascinating and believable and who then spent a lot of time and money on additional reading material.

http://www.epwijnants-lectures.com/davincicode.html

This is one of several debunking sites I found last week while checking out some intuitive thoughts I had upon finishing Dan Brown's book.

I had read Holy Blood, Holy Grail in the early 80s (still have a very tattered copy) and did a great deal of follow-up reading over the next 20 years. Readers of Brown's book might want to contemplate the possibility that the character "Leigh Teabing" is a play on the names of two of the HB HG authors, Richard LEIGH and Michael BAIGENT, which is anagramatized to TEABING.

Anyone who hasn't read or finished The DaVinci Code may want to stop reading my post at this point, because I've got a bit of a spoiler to come.

The ending of the book is exactly the kind of cop-out I expected, given my familiarity with the foundational materials. Had Brown been trying to push an agenda along the lines of Ayn Rand's in "Atlas Shrugged," the ending would not have been so ambiguous. (For whatever it's worth, I own an autographed copy of Atlas. . . . .so yes, I've read it and reread it, along with a lot of supporting analysis.)

To be truly polemical, the way Atlas is, The DaVinci Code would need to have ended very differently. But the world wasn't a different place at the end of the book than it was at the beginning. One person was changed, but not the existing political power structures.

About ten years ago, SF/Horror author Elizabeth Hand wrote "Waking the Moon," which treated on some of the same issues of metaconspiracy theories, goddess theology, etc. Hand is acknowledged as a "feminist" writer, and I believe the book won an award for its treatment of "gender issues" in the context of science fiction/fantasy/ horror. But like "The DaVinci Code," "Waking the Moon" does not leave the world in a different state than at the opening. The existing power structures remain firmly in place.

If and when someone writes either a single novel or a series of novels -- along the lines of Tim La Haye's "Left Behind" series, which I have NOT read and have no intention of even looking at lest my eyeballs rot in my head :evilgrin: -- in which the influence of a goddess-based theology effects significant and lasting change in the political landscape, then we can talk about the power of a novel to change. But if the novel itself doesn't portray that change, how can it effect that change?


Tansy Gold, dusting off her writing shoes

[SpiralHawk]

34. Women taking over the world? Here She Comes

One point of view on this, courtesy of Margaret Connolly:

HERE SHE COMES
Since my earliest spiritual awakenings, I have heard variations on a teaching passed down over many long years in the oral tradition. The teaching suggests that as the old world is passing away, but before the new world is fully born — in an era of unrelenting crisis — the feminine spirit will rise to heal the chaos, the madness, the willful destruction of the Earth.


As various elders have said to me over the years, watching the feminine spirit rise is somewhat like watching grass grow. It doesn’t happen all at once, or dramatically, but it happens all the same.

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%208-4.html

[Az]

39. Good fiction but

It relies too heavily on Conspiracy theory to hold its theories together. The book appeals to the human desire for someone somewhere whether for good or for ill to be in control of things going on.

I have read his works and they are very good works and richly researched. But where he has an excellent grasp of history and art he seems to fall to populist ideas of conspiracy. That of the all reaching all controling group operating behind the scenes. Human nature and natural patterns are a much better explanation for the order in which things happen. But because we cannot percieve these patterns we seek to apply meaning behind them and create gods and conspiracies. Cut from the same clothe. An attempt to create and identity to a percieved pattern in the chaos.

Tests were peformed on groups that deemed themself skeptic and believers. They were each shown a quick series of chaotic patterns interspersed with occaisional coherant patterns. The self declared skeptics had a much higher accuracy count but a higher miss of actual patterns. The believers on the other hand had a signicantly higher number of false positives. That is they more often believed they saw a pattern in the chaos.

Some minds seek to force patterns onto clouds and stars. Others seek to understand the actual thing itself. Grand Conspiracy theories fall apart over time. Either their focus becomes inconsequential or their secrecy is broken. Or any number of other problems disrupt their continuity. A conspiracy can remain small and localized for a time but its reach over time is limited.

[OneBlueSky]

41. well, given what men have done to the world . . .

having it taken over by the women wouldn't be a bad idea, imo . . . might actually have leaders with a little compassion and some common sense for a change . . .

[highlonesome]

42. yeah,like...

Margaret Thatcher! Sorry, but espousing the moral superiority of one gender over the other seems to me to be counter to any ideas of how the genders are in fact quite equal if but somewhat different.

Funny thing about compassion in government -- it's tough to say what that actually is and given that, it's darned easy to take it away whenever one feels like it. Truth, justice, and liberty trump compassion any day of the week since it leads one to his or her own devices and if he or she falls, leaves us all to make the choice to help. Many don't remember history, but the ideals of justice and liberty came about for compassionate reasons which is why I can't understand why they seem so undervalued these days among many of us on the left.

[bluescribbler]

43. I read it last summer.

I thought it was a good read. Since I'm no theologian, I can't say anything about its accuracy, (or lack thereof). I did get an email from a friend shortly after I read it, which calls into question the accuracy of some of what he writes, but I don't recall exactly what the discrepancies were. I'll try to dig it up and post it here, (again, without vouching for its accuracy).

[Killarney]

46. I loved it!

[John BigBootay]

48. I like the book--

but I am treating much of it's insights as speculative at this point. Perhaps the historical issues will eventually be revealed to be truthful.

[rustydad]

49. I read it a few weeks ago

The central theme that Jesus married Mary Magdalene (she was not a whore) and sirred children and that the 'men' of the Church suppressed that information in order to keep the Church a matriarchal entity may have some basis in fact. The plot line of the book though is soooo full of 'coincidences' and twists and turns as to be utterly beyond belief or even imagination.

To me it is a very disappointing book written for the masses and the masses dollars. It will do little to open the average readers mind to the notion that Christ was one in a long list of Avatars including Mohammad, Krishna, Buddha and several hundred more that we know about. Most did lead normal lives and many did have wives and families. Bob

[Tansy_Gold]

52. not to pick nits here, Bob, but "the Church". . . . .

. . . .is not a matriarchy. Doesn't matter if you mean the Roman Catholic Church or the lower-case-"o" orthodox Christian church or the generic judeo-christian-islamic "churches" -- none of them is a matriarchy. They are all based on a male father-God and a male son-Jesus and a gender-undeclared "holy spirit." They all posit the Eve-woman as the author of sin and hence all women as sin-full and therefore inferior.

[Mari333]

54. some of the symbology used in the church

still represents the divine feminine..the early catholics had to use it, or the peasantry wouldnt enter the place...Mary is just a watered down version of Astarte, all 3 monotheisms relied on previous goddess worship to re invent their newer male gods, even Allah was once Al Lat, the old woman, Goddess of the black stone, in Judaism Lilith as the consort of Yahweh was recast as a demon, and the fundamentalist christians in this country refuse to even acknowledge women as anything . Misogyny is rampant among the big 3, and I pretty much ignore them all..however, they produce political social engineering that destroys the world, and does not embrace the nurturer within of any human being.
Its not about a male body or a female body..its about, imo, the embracing of the nurturing qualities of every human being. Thats what I pray comes forward in the world.

[Blue Gardener]

56. Read "Angels & Demons" too

If you like DaVinci Code you'll probably like this Dan Brown book also. Another look at the Catholic Church, plus the Illuminati and and Freemasons. Pretty interesting.

[October]

57. Thanks for posting this

First of all, I love your signature line. LOL!

You were the 3rd person to recommend this book in as many days, so I went out today and bought it!

Our children were off from school today because of snow, so my daughter invited her 13-year-old friend to come along with our family to the bookstore. Well, when this young girl saw my purchase, she said her mother and father had read the book. She said she wanted to read it, but her religion teacher told her not to because "it was bad."

Having not yet read the book, I couldn't defend it -- so instead offered that if her faith was strong enough, there should be no problem reading other theories -- even fictional accounts. Not wanting to interfere too much (or have her parents come down on me), I left it at that and suggested she talk to her mom/dad about their reaction to the book. Then my daughter chimed in, questioning the motive behind her religious teacher's condemnation of a book. (Whoa!)

Quite controversial, and I haven't read a page yet! I'm starting tonight.

Thanks everyone.