Can The United States Be Saved?

[QERTY]

If polls are to be believed, and I believe they are, how can the two Americas possibly be reconciled? There is a solid 49.9% of the US citizenry who firmly believe in the righteousness, both theologically and ideologically, of President Bush. With blinders firmly in place, they seethe with hatred for those who would challenge the rectitude of their glorious leader. They view the left as a cabal of simpletons, too feeble-minded to understand the real world and too "sophisticated" to understand the commonsense truisms which their leader plainly utters. Some of them are focused on a single-issue like personal tax burden, fetal rights, or hatred of gays and other minorites. Some truly understand and are in accord with the PNAC vision. They view the public as easily deceived and manipulated sheep, with corporate media as the shepherd. They, collectively, are in firm control of all three branches of the federal government and we are seeing the results daily. And they despise us.
Then there's us. Some are educated centrists or disgruntled conservatives. Many are focused on the environment, international policies, free expression, abortion rights, or the occupation of Iraq. Some are uncompromising but many struggle to understand our opponents. We see the infinite shades of gray where they see black and white. We view America with an historical perspective of the good and evil with which we have acted, they see America as flawless and blessed. Where we see a dry-drunk, incoherently embarassing us on the world stage through hateful actions and words, they see a true leader telling it like it is and taking care of business. Where we see a coke-addled, AWOL pretender strutting in a flight suit, they see a great military leader. When he speaks of marriage and family values, we wonder how anyone whose failure as a parent is so evident can have the gall. I might be going out on a limb here, but we hate him. We despise his followers and we honestly and firmly believe that they are destroying America post haste.
My question is this. How can these two Americas be reconciled? Is there hope? Will Kerry's election change the fundamental schism? Or will the now mandatory austerity programs and inevitable collapse of the new bubble economy be blamed on him? Thanks for reading my rant.

[camero]

1. Yes

But we have to do it ourselves. Noone else will.

[Solly Mack]

2. Sure, the not-so United States can be saved

and yes, it's up to the people..and I don't mean the government-which is sadly out of whack.

But don't appeal to my good side, for I have none. I would ban rightwing thought as a way of life if I could.

I don't want to learn to be tolerant of rightwing(ism)...I want to rid the world of it. Through education, of course.

Well, ok...if not rid the world of it can we at least make it the accepted definition of bad government?


if things said tongue in cheek offend you, you're reading the wrong post.

[bryant69]

3. First of all

There have always been divisions in America, and deep ones. Anybody who thinks that our current situation is unique in American history should really study some more American history.

Secondly, what do you mean by saving America? The only constant is change, and so America is going to constantly change. Obviously things aren't all that great right now, but there's no reason to believe that that is a permenant condition. Instead, I suspect that in another 15 years we will see the pendulem swing back to the liberal side. The seeds for that swing are already around us.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[LZ1234]

4. This is exactly how I feel.

Thanks for wording it so well. I have many conservative friends and it's so frustrating to know they see GWB the way you describe. How I see him is exactly how you see him. Sounds like you're a Kerry supporter?

[QERTY]

8. Not exactly...

I support them all with the exception of Joey. And I could even vote for him if I had to. I kinda wonder if Clarke is a tremendously gifted actor. Those videos of him praising Shrub, Dick and Dumbsfeld were quite damning. If I could choose an imperial leader, it would be Dennis Kucinich. I think Dean is awesome but inexperienced. That might be a good thing. Kerry has made very many compromises over the years, which may haunt him, but I believe he has the best chance against Bush and he seems, prematurely, to be the presumptive nominee. Tomorrow will show us.
I foresee a Kerry/Edwards ticket.

[Demeter]

5. Perhaps the Question is Should It be Saved?

After all, Rome got to the point where burning it was the only logical way out, ditto Persia, the Khans, etc, etc.

There is an ebb and flow, and a renewal. I am not convinced that the mindless manipulation of advertising, the creation of artificial wants, the utter wastefulness, the mindlock of religious mania, could be excised without taking out everything else. There is so little of the good left, maybe it's time to condemn the structure and start over.

[mike1963]

6. I don't know the answer to your question, but it's pretty clear to me that

if Shrub does lose in November, the "winner" is gonna have one bitch of a time cleaning his mess up, IF it can even be done.

In my occasional maudlin moments, I even think that maybe the best long-term upshot would actually to let him have 4 more years to complete the job of dismantling the Constitution and the nation on the theory that it might be easier to start from scratch than putting a truckload of band-aids on.

It might be like a bad car wreck...everyone understands there's a threshold of damage beyond which it isn't practicable to 'fix', you just
total the thing, send it off to the scrap yard and get a new one.

Sigh...

[AmandaRuth]

7. seriously

it would help a great deal if we ourselves quite consuming the reicht wing media as we had no choice -

I know as soon as this is posted some will respond saying no no no we just cant do that for whatever self serving reason they will come up with, but just think about this......

What is we all canceled cable, all of us. Half of America thinks Faux msgop and cnn have biased coverage dictated by former and current reThugs, so what would happen if we boycotted until we got some sort of fairness doctrine? Imagine if Comcast has a sudden drop in subscription rates of 20% or 30% (or more!) and we all said give us a liberal network, or we ain't signing up again.. We all know they claim to worship God, but they worship money above all other. What if we didn't use Internet service or cell phone service from big conglomerates that own cable companies. What if economically, we forced them to give us a voice?

I canceled cable many months ago. Comcast calls all the time trying to get me to sign up and I always tell them drop faux and I will think about it.

[earthman dave]

9. I don't believe 49.9% of americans are *that* far right

Misinformed, yeah, but i just can't imagine this horde of frothing-at-the-mouth nutters you seem to describe. Maybe a few are like that, but nearly half? That seems unlikely.

And, to answer the question, probably - first take out the propaganda apparatus. The fact that someone gets taken in by the propaganda doesn't mean that they approve of this really unpleasant agenda. I mean, how could 49.9% of americans view "the people" as sheep?

I'll believe 2, 3, maybe even 5 percent, but don't forget how much money goes into PR in the US.

[cprise]

10. Keep in their face and appeal to their better side

You might not agree, but they want to do the right thing.

We need to stop making their involvement in doing the right thing seem like a complicated and frustrating excercise. We come up with "Southern Strategies" and talk to them in code.

This isn't 1972!

Just straight-talk with them and let them know they are valuable human beings.

[proud patriot]

11. Who knows , but we are going to one heck of time trying

:thumbsup: