It's Not Drip Drip Anymore- I hear water running.

[Solomon]

Ahhhh! Sweet sound of water running. Can't you feel it? They can no longer even speak. It's amazing. Listen to Condi, Rummy, Cheney, Bush,... everything out of their mouths is now being ridiculed for the shite that it is. They look haggard. It's not going so good for them now. They the butt of all the jokes now.

By the time November comes, we gonna hear the biggest WHOOOOOSH!! there ever was. I mean WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHA!:bounce:

[wroberts189]

1. Hehe.. I hear that sweet music as well

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/30/politics/30ASSE.html?hp

"They've made a pretty huge mess of it," said one senior Republican who has been talking to Mr. Bush's top advisers about what steps to take next. "They wove this giant story, based on intelligence assessments that in hindsight — and this is hindsight, remember — were wrong.

[ogminlo]

2. I want to see them all in stripes and irons,

swinging hammers on the side of the road like the common criminals they are.

[mrdmk]

3. This is a good thing

Let the Bush Jr. Administration eat crow. They have feeding it to us for a time now.

[guitar man]

16. I wouldn't exactly call what they have been feeding us "crow"

LOL

[wildwww2]

40. They have been feeding us what comes out of a crows ass! 24-7-365!

When will it stop? Not soon I`ll bet.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[HootieMcBoob]

4. It seems like the truth might, maybe, possibly be coming to light

but the way these criminals work, and with the media in their pocket, and the fact that there have been many, many other instances where I've thought they were gonna be outed. I will, as they say, believe it when I see it.

[Solomon]

6. It's gonna happen Hootie. It's gonna happen. Did you hear he's put

in 1.5 billion in his budget to create a marriage bureau? Can you believe it. The party of less government, making patriot acts and sticking it's nose in marriages, spending money hand over fist. It's almost like he's purposely trying to flub it. Maybe he's got what he wants and doesn't give a damn.

[Dhalgren]

30. That's what has really been bothering me for a while.

Bush and his cronies don't seem to care what anyone thinks - not us, not the world, not our allies, hell, not even their own party! It's like they aren't worried at all about the Nov. elections, and that worries me.

[sendero]

47. I think...

.... Bush* has accomplished all he set out to do. Get Saddam to show up his daddy, enact ridiculous tax cuts, etc.

Bush* isn't so stupid as to not know the bill is coming due. I think he'd just as soon not be in office when it does.

Plus, he's got some pardoning to do.

[HootieMcBoob]

34. I sure hope you're right

Also, he's adding more money to the NEA budget? I mean that's a good thing and all but, what's he up to with that? He's not gonna win over anybody in the Democratic party with that little token and he's going to piss off the conservatives. I honestly don't know what they have up their sleeves.

edit: spelling

[0007]

42. Hope your right Solomon. I'm up & down like a yo yo

Some days I can't see junior ever being in office past 04 and then on other days I can't see how junior can be stopped.

You are right about nothing good being said of him these days! And I'm rather enjoying the heat the administration is taking. I'd like to see it get so hot that FAUX News has a melt down.

[NoKingGeorge]

45. Wait until the supporters find out he cut their OT. nt

[dusty64]

23. Unfortunately,

I'm with you.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. They'll just trot out Old Osama Bin Forgotten

just in time for the sElection and all will be FORGOTTEN! and FORGIVEN! :argh:

[BevHarris]

5. Water went from dripping to running. But please take note of this:

Corporations now own the water.

In a sane world, there are consequences for misbehavior. In a privatized world, them that has the gold flaunts the rules.

Hi, Solomon!

Bev Harris

[Solomon]

7. Hey Bev!

Miss ya. I was just thinking about cha. :bounce:

[BevHarris]

9. Yeah. I have missed the balance of political topics

having had to focus to single-mindedly on one issue. I particularly enjoy your threads. DU is still top notch -- on Election Days, I find myself getting bored of the TV quickly, and heading over here for real commentary.

Do you think there will ever be any real consequences for these guys?

I once commented that they overwhelm our ability to take them on in a meaningful way on the issues, because they literally have about 12 outrages going before lunch and we're all on scandal overload. I sort of feel the same way about the WMD (lack of) and the other dirt that's coming out. It's like when the corporations have so many scandals that you stop expecting anyone's hand to get slapped, much less slapped into handcuffs.

Hopefully, a broader population is awakening and will be willing to look at what is really happening.

Bev

[ConsAreLiars]

13. just an anecdote

Today while I was waiting for a paper delivery, a delivery service driver was also waiting for assistance in getting the outgoing stuff into his pickup and we chatted about this and that. An ex-marine, worried like the rest of us about the way things are going (mentioning the war debt), with three brothers soon heading to Iraq, disturbed about the way the PNACers (my shorthand, I doubt he's heard of them) are using their power. Well, that is sort of incidental but not irrelevant, but a lot of discussion revolved around job insecurity and his observation that my job, producing real paper stuff in the computer era, was relatively secure, since computers and such always can fail. Well, rather than debating my job security, I handed him a few of Andy's brochures and we talked a bit about how what he had said applies especially to voting.

The point of this is not that I worked BBV into some chit-chat, but that the basics of the BBV argument were brought up to me, unsolicited. People already "get it," even before voting is mentioned.

(And I wished his brothers well.)

[BevHarris]

14. Yes. And the military getting stuck with Internet voting is not lost

on many of them. If the military won't vote for Bush, that's pretty damn embarrassing isn't it? Therefore, it's a lovely time to make them vote on the Internet and count the votes at some designated spot in the Bahamas where no one is looking.

Good job, Bumbler, as usual. You are one of those quiet patriots who do real things that make a real difference.

Each one teach one.

Bev

[tom_paine]

25. Bev, what voting machines are in use in New Hampshire?

Manual, elctronic, or a mix?

[BevHarris]

28. New Hampshire: Mostly Diebold optical-scan

The hackable GEMS and the same machines used in Volusia County, which we now know was the victim of an unauthorized vote upload, and quite possibly the New Hampshire machines may have been programmed by the embezzler Jeffrey Dean (memos show he was involved with programming the 1.96 firmware on the optical scan system now used by Diebold.

Yup. I've been thinking about that.

Here's a question: Can you tamper a state that uses caucuses? I'm not familiar with the attack points, but Washington is a caucus state and my husband Sonny and I will be participating in our local caucus to examine this question.

Bev

[hang a left]

32. This question has been troubling me. Thank you for answering.

What kind of machines are used in Iowa, if you know, I would appreciate it.

[Thoth]

50. Optic scan machines can be hacked into?

Bev,

I live in NH and I thought it was only the touch screen machines that were suspect. At least with the optic scan machines there's a paper ballot that is fed into the machine. If the NH general election vote is very close, I hope the Democratic Party demands a recount of those ballots. I'm still awaiting my Black Box Voting book from Plan Nine. I ordered it two months ago and haven't received it yet! (Not your problem, I know - but that would explain how I thought optic scan machines were OK).

Thanks for all that you do!

Markaren

[BevHarris]

52. Answers (and sorry, Solomon, for the slight hijacking)

1) I have received a report today that in many of the Iowa caucuses, Diebold touch-screens were used. Unacceptable.

2) Yes, optical-scans can be hacked. You will find evidence of this in the current Chapter 13: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-13.pdf

Chapter 5, I think, has a two-page section on how to compromise an optical-scan: Chapter 5 -- http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-5.pdf

Much of the remainder of that chapter also applies.

Regarding "but it makes a paper ballot" -- the problem is, we aren't allowed to look at that paper ballot for a proper audit. Saying we can only look at it in the case of a close recount simply instructs the programmer to make sure any tampering does not produce a close recount.

3) Regarding the book: Anyone who has not received the book, please e-mail me personally here: [e-mail]. I will follow up on your behalf and, if you do not receive one promptly, I will send you one of the books I am now having published from my own company, Talion Publishing. The chapter files on http://www.blackboxvoting.org are the final version for my bookstore/library edition, and include table of contents and and index so that you can easily look information up.

Watch for an announcement next week about Diebold.

Bev Harris

[Thoth]

57. Thanks Bev!

Only now I'm more depressed about the BBV situation :-( I will try to contact NH election officials about this. Thanks for the links.

[nostamj]

31. "12 outrages going before lunch"

ah yes!

you're suffering (along with the rest of us) from:

BOOS - Bush Outrage Overload Syndrome

[BevHarris]

53. Hah! BOOS -- I'll have to remember that one.

Bush Outrage Overload Syndrome.

Kinda paralyzing, if we don't watch out. Hey, am I misinformed or is this correct: I have heard that in Italy, a single very-rich man owned most of the media (TV, newspapers and radio) and, surprise surprise, managed to get himself elected in a national leadership role. But the people of Italy, despite him owning the news media, had such a talking campaign going that they all got together and ousted him anyway.

Very hopeful, very appropos, don't you think?

Bev

[SpiralHawk]

35. Real consequences for these guys?

Yep, I think there will be consequences.

I'd bet a whole-wheat, maple-frosted doughnut that the Bell Will Toll by the end of June, 2004.

It may not be enough to remove the illegitimate BushCo from office altogether, but it will Strip the Masks off -- and slam them SERIOUSLY.

Ad Astra, Per Aspera, SH

[shance]

17. There you are! Weve been aching for some real enlightenment***

I looked at this thread and thought yes, I appreciate the confidence, and have you heard about BBV and Bev Harris*s new book?

we never know when miracles will happen***

and here you are...

thanks for posting tonight Bev and THANKS for giving so many of us the will and strength to keep writing and talking about BBV.

There truly should be NO legitimate election implemented until there are fair elections that represent every single American vote.

[stevedeshazer]

8. Here we go....

[Solomon]

36. Yeah Steve!! Now if somebody can only put a graphic of

the bushies in that picture. :evilgrin:

[grasswire]

10. I was at a big....

....liberal church on Sunday, and they showed the documentary "Uncovered" after the morning services. That's the film about the Iraq lies.

The meeting room was filled -- about 350 people.

When Condi uttered her "bowels of the CIA" drivel, from the crowd came hoots and a cry of "Liar Liar, Pants on Fire!"

It was cacophony.

Hooting at George and Cheney and Wolfowitz and the others as they lied and lied and lied.

Oh, how sweet it was to be with people who "got" it.

[jbm]

11. I just dropped by a site with a liberal/conservative mix...

and there are still the few diehard freeper types,but I was amazed to see one of the posters who has always defended Bush state that at this point he would vote for anyone who was running against Bush..even if it was Michael Jackson. My mom (who can't quite bring herself to vote Dem) told me yesterday that she's going to stay home and not vote at all this year,and many people I know who never paid any attention to politics at all seem to be waking up to the fact that complacency isn't a good idea. I think Bush is going down...

[BevHarris]

12. Don't underestimate their continued ability to manipulate voting

machines -- and remember, we still haven't gotten the public aware of this. Most people thought New Hampshire was all okey-dokey because it has a paper ballot (which no one looks at) -- few people realize that many, many New Hampshire townships used Diebold optical scan machines which we now know were manipulated before; they used the tamper-friendly GEMS to tabulate the votes.

If you can't win (and he may not be able to, though I still meet people who love him and compliment him for crushing Saddam due to Saddam's involvement in 9-11, sigh) -- well, if you can't win, might you cheat?

We've got to pull out all the stops. We've got good candidates and I'm truly an "anybody but Bush" voter, but let's not assume that the votes will count.

Bev

[anarchy1999]

15. ELECTION FRAUD IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

Don't believe for a moment that the system isn't being tested and being readied for use.


snip:

JANUARY 28, 2004. I watched the vote count from the beginning, for about six hours.

At the start of network coverage, just after the polls closed, Kerry was listed with 38% of the vote, and Dean with 24%. That was with 14% of the precincts counted.

During the next six hours, I saw Kerry vary only one point, up to 39%. Dean went as high as 26%.

This morning, MSNBC is stating that, with 99% of all voting precincts reporting, Kerry is at 38% and Dean is at 26%.

Kerry is exactly where he began. Dean is two points higher than where he began, but exactly where he sat most of the night.

I don’t care whether they mostly used paper ballots or punch cards or touch screens. As the vote unfolded from minute to minute on TV---and they kept updating, showing the changing count of total votes cast for the various candidates on a continuously running basis---SOMEHOW THE PERCENTAGES FOR KERRY AND DEAN REMAINED VERY NEARLY UNCHANGED

http://nomorefakenews.com/

[shance]

18. So, who and exactly HOW are these machines being tested and ready for use?

Are these individuals anywhere equipped to the level of computer experts from Stanford, Rice and Johns Hopkins. Ive been following this for sometime and if other states are any indication, you are treading in quicksand until the public begins to really understand the magnitude of this issue.

If you truly are concerned about fairness and the truth, you will pursue looking into the fraud, corruption and fallabilities involved in electronic computing.

If any computer is hackable, then you can bet its a feeding frenzy for hackibility in situations where power, money and influence are at stake.

[anarchy1999]

19. yes, so now what?

n/t
and I really am concerned about fairness and truth. What did you misunderstand?

[shance]

20. Anarchy - just fuggetaboutit......

You have shown me nada to reveal that you really are informed on the issue.

Your defense of electronic voting reveals to me otherwise.

As a reminder, this is NOT a Republican or Democratic issue.

Example: If you are a Republican and happen to like an ALTERNATIVE Republican, you are still shot if establishment Repubs own these electronic concoctions because they will conveniently choose WHO THEY WANT if they own and control the machines, which they DO, by the way. SO, because establishment has a better more corporate minded candidate, YOUR candidate evaporates into thin, has been air, and enters the archives of HAS BEEN......

BUH-BYE.

Therefore, your vote has conveniently been invalidated and yet they are still telling Americans via their talking heads ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and FAUX PAS that it was a legitimate and fair election.
They are lying to you with make-up on. So how would that feel to you?

And HOW would it feel to know its already happened? Just come have a chat with some in the Democratic party.

This deal is BIPARTISAN. Dont kid yourself.

[anarchy1999]

21. shance-

I am not sure what you have misunderstood. I believe the most serious issue going into November is BBV. Where are you coming from?
Did you read the article I referenced?

Yes, it is a BIPARTISAN concern.

[Jose Diablo]

22. Yes, meet the new boss

same as the old boss.

[jobendorfer]

41. actually, that kind of makes sense

I'm probably making some assumptions that would give
a competent pollster hissy fits, but --

a) assuming that the ballots come from a wide geographical
range of precincts,

and

b) assuming that the ballots are somewhat randomized with
respect to time (so that you aren't biased towards early
voters versus afternoon voters, for example)

and

c) the polls are actually closed when you start counting

that after you've counted 15-20 thousand ballots, you can
estimate the final percentage breakdown of the vote to
within 1 percent or so with very high confidence. This
is basic statistics.

In fact, if the final numbers had changed radically from
the earlier numbers you mentioned, *that* would be very
suspicious. Enough so that investigation was warranted.

One very good way to test whether a BBV system has been
tampered with is to count a random sample of 5 thousand or
so printed receipts. If the counts from the printed receipts
varies much from the BBV counts, something went haywire in
the BBV machine.

J.

[BevHarris]

54. Disagree somewhat. Random sampling won't reliably catch tampering

It will catch random error and tampering done by a moron.

Random sampling is good, but you also need to establish several checkpoints as the data (votes) moves through the system. At each checkpoint (each time a vote moves) you run a detailed report and compare it with the last checkpoint. All votes should match, at all checkpoints, all the way through the system. If they don't, you must pull the voter-verified paper ballots for a hand count.

The above system costs almost nothing and takes very little time. Wish I had nostamj here right this minute to give it a catchy name.

Bev

[Skittles]

44. you need to advise your mom to put her country above her party

if she feels that strongly Bush should not be in power she should vote against him

[tom_paine]

24. I only hope you are right, Solomon. But...

...the issue of vote manipulation, which I believe has been brought up before, is the main one.

IF the votes are counted and relatively honest, even WITH all the propaganda working for them, the Busheviks will likely lose by 3-5%. However, with the manual disenfranchisement tactics, like giving the most error-prone machines to minority areas, the phony felon purges, and the manual ballot-stuffing strategies such as Freeper Vacation Home Voting alone are enough to cover that margin.

[Solomon]

37. There's always cheating in elections, black box or not, so I think we

can safely assume that there WILL be cheating in '04. But cheating has traditionally banked on close races. Pretty hard to do when there's a whooooosh.

I admit though that bbv adds a significant element to cheating. A flip of the switch can convert one kind of vote to another unlike the old way in which votes are either falsely added or subtracted. This is extremely ominous.

I guess we need to really support and back exit polling.

[DrBB]

26. And then they "capture" Osama around, oh, October 15

...and that gives 'em the bump they need to waft gently into power for another 4 years.

Think that's not in the playbook? That whacko nutcase Madeleine Albright thinks they're quite capable of capturing him and holding him till it suits their purpose. Read Kevin Phillips' book, particularly the bit about Bush I's role in Reagan's October surprise. Unelected people negotiating with a foreign power to undermine the foreign policy of the United States, using the hostages' lives as pawns in their own political game. This is well within the scope of what they will do to hold power.

[OneTwentyoNine]

27. The Bush Cabal will have to keep painting her as a kook

Just like they did with millions last year that said the SH wasn't hiding a fucking thing. Then when they pull UBL out of his hidey hole in Oct the media will never ever repeat Albrights story.

David

[BevHarris]

29. Re: Getting painted as a kook

Sorry, Solomon, for letting your thread get hijacked up there. Back to your original post and the painting of kooks.

Lessee now, how many people who they painted as kooks have since been vindicated?

However, this really hinges on what TV does. If TV journalists really want to be journalists, they'll push to keep exposing things. The American public doesn't read nearly as much as it should, but when a news topic hits the TV news circuit, public opinion can be influenced very quickly.

So, I expect to see some nauseating propaganda pieces about how our economy is on the rise and, of course, how Bush saved America and we're all safer now. And yes, they'll probably smoke someone outta their cave at a strategic time.

Solomon is right, though. Water is flowing. When corporations own the water, though, they can plug the holes or, failing that, reroute the flow. I think citizens need to put real effort into doing the most important thing of all: Talking to others. Get the words out in the open, start a dialog. We still outnumber them.

Remember "watch what you say?" -- Thank God that is over now. We need a new mantra: Make up for lost time when everyone was watching what they said, and talk these issues up to anyone who'll listen.

If TV doesn't talk it up, we'll have to do it ourselves. It's been done. Urban legends, of course, don't spread on TV, they spread through the populace by good old-fashioned talking.

Go forth and blab. It may be our best chance to take back this country.

Bev

[Solomon]

38. LOL! Hijack away!! I'm honored to be highjacked

by the non-pareil Bev Harris. You made my day. :bounce:

[OneTwentyoNine]

33. I'm getting a 1992 feeling once again!!

I though after poppy's Desert Storm all was lost for Dems in 1992 until about June or so when Clinton did his bus tour and told the truth about Repigs daily. I realized then we just might have a chance,by Sept,Oct I knew the election was ours.

David

[Solomon]

39. Time for that old spiritual

"We Shall Overcome". Haven't felt like singing that song since the King days. "Deeeeeep in my heaaaarrt, I do beleeeeeve." Teehee.

:evilgrin:

[Skittles]

43. they will trot out Osama and all the sheep will forget

and there's always election fraud if that doesn't work.

[freespeechhere]

46. Jon Stewart was pretty funny last night

He made fun of Condi's talking points on the Today Show (?) yesterday.

He spliced together the clips of her saying that Sadaam was "dangerous" and ran them all together...it was hilarious!

Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous

[Solomon]

48. This is what I'm seeing now. Everything they say is being ridiculed

now, and some of the anchors are even challenging statements just a wee bit.

[freespeechhere]

49. Dan Rather did a story on soldier suicides last night

I was shocked. That's been in the Indy media for months and CBS picked up on it. It kind of restores my faith a little...like maybe this thing could turn around.

[On the Road]

51. One Good Thing About Kerry

is his background in anti-corruption. He might actually be more likely than other candidates to make a case out of it, and not let it drop.

[RedEagle]

55. Dems need to stop using machines in the primaries NOW

Machines can be used to chose your opponent, too.

Or they can be used by party factions to pick "their" candidate.

Maybe Kerry's sudden surge is real. But it sure took me by surprise. I thought he was out of the race.

I don't know who the best candidate is.

But start figuring out if a Dem wins in November, who would do the least damage to the neocon agenda? Liberman can't get elected.

Yeh, that's tinfoilhat stuff.

Kerry has a record of investigating. But hasn't he always stopped just short of really getting to the bottom of things? Someone fill us in here.

[Jose Diablo]

58. I think the fix is in n/t

[Seldona]

56. I hope I am not being overly optimistic,

but I feel the exacly same way. I have seen to many die hards changing their minds lately.

And as you pointed out, this administration has seemed to be taking it on the chin lately. Not enough imo, but it has begun.

PNAC and the neocon ideals are slowly beginning to unravel.

I really think there isn't a whole lot they can do at this point, short of martial law, that is going to keep them in the WH.

I could be wrong, but I tend to trust my gut.

And that is what it is screaming.

I feel the best I have since 9/11.

I feel like there just might be light at the end of the tunnel.

Now if Clark can just get the nomination, I would REALLY be optimistic. :)

[Norbert]

60. As Barry Goldwater would havew said

"It looks like they got their butt caught in a crack."