Why AWOL "didn't matter" in 2000 & does Now

In 2000, we weren't at war.
Since 9-11 "everything has changed."
That's what everyone says anyway.
Well, if everything has changed then, now it's important if Bush was AWOL, even if it wasn't important before. I happen to think it was important before also, but why not turn the right wing talking point against them?
If Bush wants to claim that everything has changed since 9-11, he's got to deal with the fact that this means AWOL means even more than it did before.

[justsam]

1. what bothers

most people is How can a man that didn't serve his country honorably and pulled strings to stay out of Nam send other people to die in another unjust war??

[Ivote]

2. You hit the nail on the head

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Looks like the story has legs.

NBC had it as the 3rd story and I was listening to KPFK and they were ripping * a new one about it.

To quote the chimp: Bring it on!

3. I agree completely

I was a conscientious objector at end of Vietnam but that's completely different because I didn't serve, but I was honorable about it.
The hypocrisy of all of these chickenhawks really bothers me.

[indepat]

10. Hypocrisy and also mendacity and reichousness I would offer

[Karenina]

28. None of these qualities

square with visceral American "core values."

Imagine a couple thousand Vets, accompanied by any and/or all of the Democratic candidates, senators, congresscritters (to insure the cops don't start pushing folks around unnecessarily), everybody's got photocopies of their military records, signs, buttons and bumper stickers to pass out to spectators, all gather in the closest "free speech zone" to the TV studio where the MTP slobberfest is taped with mock coffins, whistles, bullhorns drums, chanting in unison, "Dubya, Dubya, Dubya, WHERE WERE YOU IN 72?" Oh yeah, and don't forget the sea of flags. Ya think that would pose the question LOUDLY ENOUGH?

Man-o-man, this picture engulfed my brain as I was reading today and I just keep re-posting...

[beyurslf]

14. What bothers me most is that this was reported by the Globe

over 4 years ago and all of a sudden the media acts like this is a story. As if we suddenly know something knew.

[OneTwentyoNine]

17. Remember they bashed Gore for having a "cushy" job while in Nam

All the while their em "candidate" was a deserter. So to shift blame they rallied Whore TV around the fact that Gore Sr. got Al a reporters job while in Nam.

So FUCKING what?? He joined,he served,he went to Nam,he didn't DESERT.To say that anyone who served in Nam and didn't have bullets flying by their head didn't do a credible job and didn't contribute is total Bullshit.

Of course Dems wearing their tutu's really didn't come to his defense like they should or the Bush story would have been a major story four years ago.

David

[Bandit]

20. Just out of curiosity do you know how many journalist have died in Iraq?

Vietnam was way more of a war zone than Iraq is. Would you say journalist in Iraq have a "cushy job" to use your words.

[Hubert Flottz]

24. Remember when The Bush KKKlan Bashed McCain and said...

that McCain spilled his guts to the enemy while in captivity in Viet Nam? How McCain can defend Bush is, beyond belief! How the Repubs can talk about our guys in this race being so MEAN SPIRITED toward each other, is Beyond belief! How anything that comes out of Bush's mouth is, BEYOND BELIEF!

Bush was campaigning last time, on how he was such a peaceful man and all the time he and his pals were planning to roll over IRAQ for it's oil! We know now, that Bush is NOT a peaceful man and was just lying to his voters who trusted him! Bush's military record IS more important just for the morale of the troops if nothing else! If Bush has such a sterling military record, he is simply unpatriotic to not come clean and be the example the troops need in our great time of WAR?

The troop Morale crumbles more than anything, when the men don't, or can't, trust their leaders who set the example! It's time for Bush to step up and support the troops he sent into combat and clear this all up! Bush's secrecy is undermining the total power of our armed forces and thus his actions are a direct threat to our national security! The hiding of the truth about the reasons to go to war in Iraq, is bound to drag the troops morale down also, when we most need them to protect us, from all those known,(wink)"Imminent Threats"!

I rest My Case!

[Tommy_Douglas]

27. Well if I had to guess.

I'd say McCain tows the line because they'll either destroy his career or put an end to his life. Maybe both. Malicious bastards they are.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. Bush should clear this AWOL story up with his military records!

Bush is wrecking the Morale in the military when they need all the support from their leaders they can get! Until Bush tells the truth and the military trusts it's CIC, the morale and trust will continue to decline among our troops! Bush needs to "support the troops", he's either with our troops or against them!

Bush said of Saddam, if he has nothing to hide then let us look for ourselves! Seemingly Bush like Saddam has things he wants to hide also! Your Records Citizen Bush, Bring Them Out! Those records are government property!

[bryant69]

4. One answer is

"How much more experience do you want him to have? He's been Commander in Chief for four years, you can't get any higher than that."

Another is

"We covered this in the previous campaign, and President Bush was exonerated."

I don't think either of those will completely sweep it under the rug, particularly if Kerry (or Clark) takes the nomination.

Bryant
Check it out--> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. That's whi Clark and Kerry are the best that we have.

Both served in the military and it shows that they have respect for that institution.

[Mari333]

6. No humane human being would send our kids to Iraq

and let them die and be wounded, had they ever been on a battlefield and held their friend in their arms as he looked up at them in terror and fear, and asked them to say goodbye to his mom , or cried as he lay there with half his leg shot off, or cried as he discovered the body part of a baby in a ditch, or cried as he dies and wishes he was home, with his mom and his dad and loved ones, instead of in some godforsaken hellhole
Thats why any kind of goddamn military experience means a lot more.
This asshole in the WH hasnt got a clue. And our kids are NOTHING to him.
Damn right he isnt commander in chief. Hes just a frat boy asshole.

[Stuckinthebush]

7. I agree, but...

I am very uncomfortable with the notion that only people who served in the military can be the best Presidents. One day in the near future, we will have no one left to run who had been in or had avoided combat in Vietnam. What then? Do we only support/elect people who fought in Iraq? Where does this lead us?

My short-term strategic thinking loves the idea of pitting AWOL against Kerry or Clark, but long term, I am very wary of keeping this litmus test around for fear of it being used against us in future races.

8. I'm uncomfortable with the same notion,

Particularly since I was a conscientious objector.
For me, the issue is not whether you served in the military, but whether you had a conviction that you held to and took the consequences for, one way or the other.

[kclown]

12. You misunderstand the issue:

Bush pretends to have served in the military; Clark/Kerry did
serve in the military.  The issue is the pretense, not the
service.

[ThoughtCriminal]

9. GOP Brought it On

1. Questioning our courage and patriotism, openly calling Democrats traitors and terrorists.

2. Ignoring the contributions of liberals to the defense of this country and it's progress as a prosperous democracy.

3. Betraying the freedoms that thousands of Americans have died for.

4. Posing bush* in a flight suit in one of the most inane publicity stunts in US political history.

AWOL is just a start, we're not going to rest until the whole steaming pile is exposed.:kick:

[MarianJack]

11. I Think that what makes it an issue...

...is the fact that the commander in thief has been blatently trying to wrap himself in the military since 9/11.

By the way, has anyone else ever noticed that we never see resident bush going through a crowd shaking hands or interacting with people?

Can you imaging the time that Bill Clinton's people would have had trying to keep him AWAY from a crowd?

[opihimoimoi]

13. The Bush wus is a blatant bad president who is faking it.

A fraud of the worst case.

[MarianJack]

32. Look Very Close...

...and you'll see not one word of disagreement with you in this post.

I used to think that harding was the worst president in history, but I think that * beats him hands(or beer mugs) down!

Thanks for your response.

[enough]

16. The issue here is not military service, but honesty and character

I agree with posters above that we don't want to make it seem that military service is a pre-requisite for the Presidency.

The significant thing here is that Bush signed up for a commitment and did not honor it. This is even more horrendous in light of the fact that others who did honor their commitments paid with their lives.

Now as commander in chief he wants others to honor an equally dangerous commitment.

The minute Bush set foot on that flight deck in that absurd suit he put this issue front and center.

[Karenina]

18. He also wearing a pin

he was NOT entitled to wear for that photo op, IIRC. Anyone remember?

[heidiho]

19. The congressman from South Carolina said

I think his name is Rep. Clyburn said in an interview that Gore was wrong to let it go in 2000 but we are NOT going to let it go this time.

I think we all feel the same. It was more difficult in 2000 since Gore actually got some preferential treatment by being a photographer (at least he was there) but Kerry's war record will enable us to hit him with both barrells on this issue.

[DemLikr]

21. Exccccccccccccccccccccccccellent

:)

[Mari333]

22. All chickenhawks sending OUR kids to THEIR Bloodbath

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks

damn right it matters.

[moof]

23. Great Chickenhawk image Mari333, but

The link doesn't work, at least for moof,
is it functioning for everyone else ?

[Cooley Hurd]

29. it works for me...

You aren't on AOL, are you (or Road Runner)?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1087937

[skippysmom]

25. plus we have a pattern of behavior established

He lied about his Guard Service.
He lied about WMDs.
Rinse and repeat.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Here is how the chicken hawks eat their own!

Why is Bush Spreading these Vicious Falsehoods to Smear McCain?

What are the lies?

<snip>
They began by spreading the story that John McCain has a temper, and still has a “woman” problem. When they found out that having a “woman problem” doesn’t mean anything to the voters anymore, not after Clinton, they put that slander on the back burner and began to hit very hard on McCain having a temper. That temper accusation is an old worn out political smear. Remember how they used that one against Dole in the ’88 campaign, and Muskie before that?

As if that weren’t bad enough, when the temper accusation fell flat, the Bush campaign and Republican leadership went from dirty politics to sick inexcusable human behavior.

They began to spread the rumor that McCain was emotionally unstable. And how did he become emotionally unstable? (As I write this I find it impossible to believe that otherwise responsible men in positions of power and leadership would actually do this.) They took one McCain’s strongest qualities, his unbelievably heroic endurance and behavior through five and a half years of POW torture, and twisted it to say that that experience left him emotionally unstable. MORE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..........

http://www.billyjack.com/politics/991123_mcain.html

While I don't go along with some of this McCain forgiving Repub's total forgiveness for J M , there is some very important history here, as to why Bush's military record should matter today, if every other American's record matters! The Bush Bible Club even went as far as to hint that John McCain was a traitor because he broke in captivity under torture in Viet Nam and talked! The GOPers hinted that McCain was in fact a war criminal, because he gave the enemy important information!

You folks help me dig into the things the Bushco Boyz did in selection 2000 to trash McCain's war record! Then Bush has the GALL, to say that people like us are shameful, for asking for the truth about Bush's military service!

I rest my case again!

[Taeger]

31. ISN'T IT AMAZING

The press went nuts over Clinton smoking a fucking joint during the 60s. They also went AWOL over him getting a scholarship and a deferment based on MERIT as opposed to privelege.

Now we have a president who derilicted his duty to the National Guard. He even refused to deny that he did Cocaine sometime before 1974.

And, THE PRESS IS ABSOLUTELY FUCKING SILENT ON THE ISSUE!!!!!

Not only that, there isn't a peep on Bush's questionable service from people who once claimed that this is the number one concern for a presidential candidate. Not a word from people who were so hung up about A JOINT in the 60s.

Liberal Media. Bull fucking SHIT!!!! It's a corporate media that serves itself. They are allied to the Republicans.