ive just heard the second man complaining about abortion on wash. journal

[veganwitch]

what the fuck. thats not even the topic but once again. its only the men bringing up the subject.

flame away.

[salin]

1. they have no more issues - so have to hit on the culture wars

harder than ever. Points to desparation.

They can't speak to the economy and the benefits of having CEO pres/vicepres (presiding over the largest jobloss recovery since the Hoover administration doesn't exactly inspire confidence...)

They can't speak to credibility in national security issues... (for any last holdouts - the Kay proclamations make it hard to use this issue - even the diehards who rationalize the war with hindsight are backing off on using this issue b/c even former supporters are so disgusted with the implications)

They can't speak to integrity of the Wh (though occaisionally they still try to deflect by attacking Clintion... yet interestingly many now USE Clinton policies as a shield - as if NOW Clinton policies were good ones ... as must be implied in the logic if those are refered to as strong justification of current policies - but of course the two don't translate as there has been a BIG change in policy...)

So abortion and gay marriage have become the main calling card. I expect the "gun grabber" line of arguments will return as a recurrent theme as well. They have nothing left to try to rally their own.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Hard on crime and war on drugs

We'll be seeing more of that as well.

[salin]

6. yep but more WOD than on crime

as the statistics don't across the board look good for bush compared to the previous admin. Indeed I don't think these numbers often reflect policies in DC, but seem to be more tied to economic trends. Weaker economy - some crimes go up... stronger economy - those go down. Not quite so simple, but it is hard to campaign on the issue if one hasn't presided over numbers that are strong.

[Bandit]

10. "Hard on crime and war on drugs"

Rush Limbaugh comes to mind. We'll see how hard on crime they are. Rush committed over ten felonies according to prosecution. That is Crime under anyone's definition of crime.

[catzies]

7. I agree with you fully Salin dear, and have a point to add

It seems to me that using these cultural distractions when led by the highest elected officials is a way of them telling those people that everything else is all right and the issue at hand is the only one that matters.

To put it another way, "Our President tells us what's important. He's not talking about jobs, or the economy so those things must be okay and not worth worrying about, but this issue is."

[havocmom]

3. men who insist on no abortion options should have fetus implanted

on their spleens or livers. It was done with apes and it is possible.
If they are so concerned with this issue, give them active participation in it!

[beyurslf]

4. I have a couple of gay male friends who

are anti choice. Talk about someone who REALLY will never be in the situation!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. Better be careful! The usual suspects will show up on this thread

and spew their anti-woman talking points!

[veganwitch]

11. ive got them on ignore anyway

[ellie]

13. Yes, they will

I expect them any moment now.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Fundie Church Rabble...

I heard one of the WJ callers...sounded like a hard-line Catholic (referred to the Pope) and gave the "little boys and girls" line...as though kids pop out fully grown. Yes, men have little say in issue unless a woman seeks their help. But religious goons will never keep their paws off others lives. I wouldn't worry about this moron...I live in one of the most Catholic cities in the country (Chicago) and if * gets 15% of the vote, he'll be lucky.

On the Culture wars, a neighbor who attends a large "non-demoninational"...yet Fundamentalist (his definition) church, made a couple of interesting observations. A year ago there was a lot of flag waiving and "God Bless Our President" and "God Bless The Troops"...there were food baskets sent to military personnel and anyone who dare question the regime was looked on as a traitor. Now, he says, there's little flag waiving and *'s name is only mentioned on the pulpit in passing...the emphasis on the troops for prayers, then this regime. This is surely a fundmental shift worth noting.

He also pointed to the increased rhetoric about the Marriage ammendment idea...and the scare tactics that are being thrown about regarding gay marriage. Yep, as noted, it's one of the few "hot buttons" (and one created by Rove) that is stirring up the congregation. His reasoning (and he's as neutral as an observer as I've met) is that the economy has hit almost everyone and the Iraq invasion leaves many queasy. It wasn't that quick, clean, neat, Gulf Oil I war everyone was expecting. Guns really aren't an issue these days, so what's that leave? Even he thinks it's goofy to think that someone allowing two people of the same sex to marry will destroy his 25+ year marriage or affect his life. But this is all they've got to rally their troops right now. The past couple months have been tough in wingnut-land, but don't think they're down by any means. They're more dangerous than ever.

[skippysmom]

9. I swear, these types have projection issues

When I hear them going off so vehemently on abortion (or gay rights, or whatever the culture war du jour is) I wonder why they care so much?

[Jane Roe]

12. Abortion law is an issue . . .

that does *not* skew by gender. The assumption that men are antichoice and women are prochoice is wrong for this reason. This is a mistake that get repeated so often on DU that I think people have begun to believe it.

In the past I have cited to opinion polls that show that women and men have highly similar splits in opinion on abortion. These polls always get attacked for the way the questions are framed. However, even if the questions in my polls were poorly framed (and I am not admitting they were), you would still expect to see a gender skew if women and men systematically felt different about abortion law.

This time I challenge the posters on this thread and other readers. Show me an abortion poll with a significant gender skew.

By significant skew, I don't mean a couple percentage points -- I mean a skew bigger than the Democratic Party skews female and the Republican party skews male. On abortion, I assert that this skew simply does not exist and that fact should make a lot of posters on this thread rethink their insulting sexist assumptions about how callous men are.

On edit: Roe v Wade is a decision that instructs us as voters to balance fetal interests against the interests of the pregnant women, at least when the issue is discretionary 3d trimester abortion. If you are going to make the sexist assumption that a man's gender prevents him from having objectivity and a lack of bias in performing this balancing act, then the burden of proof should be on those asserting that we should discriminate by gender when deciding who can participate in this legally mandated balancing of political interests. Gender discrimination should *always* be the narrow, only-when-absolutely-neccessary exception -- not the default rule.