Carlie Brucia and Justice in Florida

[JasonBerry]

What if it were your eleven year-old girl who was missing. The twerp in custody is identified by the tattoos and by the evidence in his car and the guy is refusing to cooperate with police. You know your daughter may be dead, or she may be tied up and locked in a storage facility. He's still not talking. As important as constitutional rights are - would you want the police to take the guy in the back room and give him an ultimatum? Tell us where the little girl is or prepare to be taken down and (unspeakable) ---- now, where's the girl?

I know if it were MY daughter, they would have to keep me bound and gagged to keep from getting into the jail and beat the ***hole until he tells me where Carlie is.

Time is ticking - what do the cops do for this 11 year old girl?

[Bunny]

1. If it were my daughter, I would not care what the police did to

make him talk. That may not be very PC here, but there it is.

[pretzel4gore]

24. don't worry, they do

if it was an ordinary situ....and no political mileage to be gained from highlighting 'liberal civil rights' issues, they'd be taping buddy's mouth and putting clothespin on his nose, while watching tv etc as the goof suffocates...then they remove tape ect, let him breathe for awhile etc etc
point is, THE COPS DO IT, and anyone thinks niceties stop them is a fool. This lil girl just caught in headlights of a bullshit society that will sacrifice her to god of mammon
There aren't any liberals in the land...why are the mediawhores trying to say there are?

[Brian Sweat]

33. To be honest, I don't have much of a problem with this.

My only concern is that they might have an innocent man. If I knew for sure he was guity, I would say do what ever you need to do to save an innocent life. No evidence obtained from using such extreme measures should be used in court, but if you have enough evidence to know for sure he is guilty, then you don't need anymore.

But how can you be sure. If you are wrong, you are torturing an innocent person.

[Brian Sweat]

35. Here is another thing to consider.

If this is definitely the guy, then why doesn't he talk.

If the girl is still alive, then he would have plenty to gain from talking. The DA would probably given him a reduced sentence on the kidnapping charge if he told them where she was. Therefore, I conclude that she is already dead and he doesn't want to talk because that would lead to a murder charge. So there probably isn't much to be gained from torture anyway.

[pretzel4gore]

42. eternal problem

what if the guy's innocent? And how often do the innocent get framed, or trapped by circumstance, while the psycho's chuckle in background...
OJ Simpson was innocent!
Humanity has been debating this since forever, and punishing whoever was nearby was always the choice. Legal tradition developed over hundreds of centuries, tiny step at a time....yet modern people can throw out ALL THAT progress and let outright criminality (bushinc) get away with murder etc, because JUSTICE is almost impossible to achieve.
And torture doesn't work cuz people confess just to stop the pain etc...
There's no out, never was...but remember 'Livingstone' the woman who travelled by bike across europe/africa to join dr shweitzer (sp) at the leper colony as a nurse in the 1920's...she was alone and unarmed, yet never had any problems (dark continent indeed!)
a few years ago i heard about 2 girls who spent entire year travelling rough in india pakistan etc...again, 2 skinny lil weaklings who stood out like sore thumbs, and some $$ in their backpacks(?)

[FredScuttle]

2. Here's another scenario...

let's say it was your brother, or uncle, or father who the police are holding now for questioning connected to this girl's disappearance. You may know for certain that your relative could not have been involved, but because he fits a physical description and has been incarcerated in the past, the police are very interested in him as a suspect.

Now, imagine if that was you in the police interrogation. Feel any different about suspending your constitutional rights?

This is an emotional time, but let's heed the lesson of 9/11 and not trample all over the Constitution as a means to an end.

[gWbush is Mabus]

3. word

[JasonBerry]

4. I hear you, it's a big "but" though

And the "but" is the NASA enhancements apparently show the tattoos clearly - and they are his. The p[lace he works says that's their shirts. There is evidence they won't divulge linking his car to Carlie. It's not "matching a description" - it was caught on a surveillance video! I hear what you're saying, but a little girl may be somewhere crying - and dying - and what about her constitutional rights? Tough call.

[FredScuttle]

7. before I'd go believing everything the police say...

I'd check out the rampant corruption in the police departments in Chicago and LA over the past decade. Planted evidence, coerced confessions, etc. Not every department in the nation is dirty, but I certainly don't take everything the cops say as the gospel truth.

Interesting how they won't divulge their evidence linking his car to Carlie if they're so sure they have "their man"

[JasonBerry]

9. Routine

Investigators ALWAYS keep certain evidence confidential in order to have an identifying piece of evidence that nobody would know but the police, the victim, and the perp.

[sangh0]

20. Cops lying is also "routine"

and it's perfectly legal, so why believe it?

[Bunny]

5. Sorry, doesn't change my mind.

I have a daughter in the sixth grade. It this happened to her, and the cops have the guy who did it, I do not care what they would need to do to make him talk.

This is the premise of the original post: if it were your daughter, what would you do? Not: if it were your brother, uncle , or father. I answered the question that was asked.

[FredScuttle]

11. If it were my daughter....

I'd be experiencing emotional devastation. I can't begin to imagine what the family is going through and my heart goes out to them.

I, just like anyone else, would like to think I'm better than causing pain to others to ease my own. I also know that my pain would be doubled if this guy was innocent.

[Arbustosux]

6. amen...

You saved me the trouble of writing that response.

Contrary to what Bush thinks, the ends DO NOT justify the means.

[JasonBerry]

8. But....

Take Bush and presidential politics out of it. "The ends don't justify the means" is an old cliché that is certainly true in most all matters. But again, if it were YOUR little girl, would the end justify the means? If the end is possibly an 11 year old freed from a bound and gagged, dehydrated, starving captivity, I'd say the ends would justify about any means.

[trumad]

10. Give a key to the Cops to do what they want

and where does it end? Do you beat and torture this guy but not another? Do we have a list of offenses that we allow toruture to occur.

You're opening Pandoras Box on that one.

[JasonBerry]

13. I hear 'ya! It's just damn tough. That girls out there and HE KNOWS n/t

[LincolnMcGrath]

18. word

squared

[Elidor]

34. Thank you

You said it much more eloquently than I would have.

[TSElliott]

12. You ever watch the Shield?

I love the show, and I love how they handle scumbags like this piece of dirt.

The only satisfaction I will have is in the knowledge of how he will be treated once he goes to prison. Prisoners have daughters too and they do not take well to those who prey on children.

[ieoeja]

14. If it were my girl?

I suppose I'd want the guy tortured. What's your point? You aren't seriously suggesting we base our judicial system on what people feel like doing, are you?


The next time someone tells you they think, "a person gives up his rights when he commits a crime," point out to them that 5 of the 10 Bill of Rights concern the rights of those suspected, accused or convicted of a crime and ask them why they oppose a full 50% of the rights upon which this country was founded.

[JasonBerry]

15. The point is -

The point is this is a REAL TIME scenario. Right now. There really IS an 11 year old girl out there somewhere and this guy knows. A civics lesson is not what I WOULD want to hear from anybody if it were my daughter. And yes, your damn right, I think it's long past due that mamby pamby lecturers take a back seat at times like this.

[FredScuttle]

16. How are you certain this guy knows?

Based on what? News reports? The thin leak of information from the police? The fact that the guy looks like a neer-do-well?

Are you willing to debase yourself and act like a fascist because Court TV told you this must be the guy?

"Namby-pamby lecturers" would be the only ones saving your neck if you were in this situation.

edit: spelling

[JasonBerry]

17. Read the posts above

Have you seen the surveillance video?

Have you seen the suspect?

Do 2 people have the same tattoos in the same place on their arms?

The man worked at a place that uses the same uniform shirts.

There is evidence in the car that links him to the girl.

I say "mamby pamby" because that's the message from those in their nice comfortable homes in front of their computers who defend the likes of this scumbag while an 11 year old girl is out there and ALL the evidence shows the guy knows where she is. Why go to such lengths to defend this guy? Sometimes evidence is overwhelming. It's hard to get more evidence than his showing up on VIDEO TAPE!

I'm not debasing myself, btw. Fascist is a word thrown around way too loosely around here. Fascist should be reserved for fascists - not fellow DUers. Call me anything - but please, don't call me a fascist.

[BeFree]

19. I hope you, Jason

Are never on a jury that might try me for something. There is no telling what you would do. Justice? I saw it on TV!!

This case is a tough one. Like someone pointed out, there are at least five parts of the constitution that give all of us certain rights that shall NOT be taken lightly.

Innocent until proven guilty. We need to remember that, because any one of us could be charged for something we never did. It happens.

[JasonBerry]

21. If I'm On Your Jury

And you're caught red-handed on video tape, I'll convict you. This isn't exactly a head scratcher.

[BeFree]

23. Would you

Would you give me a chance to make a case that if I could prove the video had been 'modified' that you might question just how much modification it had undergone?

[JasonBerry]

25. I was waiting for that

Conspiracy! Video was doctored! WHY? What is the point of wanting - somehow - to find this guy innocent? I don't get it. Looks like it might be too late anyway:
http://www.newsradio610.com/script/headline_newsmanager.php?id=258995&pagecontent=nationalnews&feed_id=59

[BeFree]

26. Nope, don't want you on a jury. No way.

The video I saw was doctored. NASA enhanced it. Right? But you wouldn't even let me make a case. You'd just shut me down.

It is not a matter of me wanting the guy innocent. He is innocent, according to the laws, and in following the constitution. It's called due process.

From what few facts I have seen, there is reason to believe he is involved, and if a fair and impartial jury eventually finds him guilty, then I would consider that he was fairly dealt with.

[JasonBerry]

27. And meanwhile - the girl? N/T

[JasonBerry]

28. NASA Enhancement

By the way, a NASA employee saw the reports on local TV in a break room and called his supervisor. They had very recently put into operation a new image enhancement system that is brand new. There was a need to develop something that they could enhance liftoff photos. They were already working on this before the Discovery accident - but it only confirmed the need as this would have seen those tiles clearly.

The supervisor saw the surveillance video as well and agreed their new technology could help identify this guy who was caught on camera snatching this little girl. NASA contacted the Sarasota PD. They were hesitant for their involvement to become public as they feared a clamoring of requests (the example of JFK assassination researchers was given as an example) for use of the VERY EXPENSIVE equipment, of which there is only one.

No conspiracy. New technology helped NAIL this prick.

[BiggJawn]

29. Where does it end?

Today, 11-y-o girls. Tomorrow, people who read the "wrong" books.

Jason, what you suggest is mob "law". Perhaps now that the news media is reporting that she "may be dead", then to use your rationale, it's time to take Joe out and hang him from a lamp post, right? Save the cost of a trial, right?

After all, he did it, WE'VE SEEN THE VIDEO!!!!!

Right?

If you want to advocate torture for ANY reason, then you may as well ask Ashcroft for a chunk o' that Constitution (BTW, today is it's anniversary, according to my flip-calender) to wipe YOUR ass on.

And I have a 21 year old daughter.

[JasonBerry]

32. Didn't deserve that

"you may as well ask Ashcroft for a chunk o' that Constitution (BTW, today is it's anniversary, according to my flip-calender) to wipe YOUR ass on."

Was that really necessary?

[FredScuttle]

36. You're advocating torturing a man who hasn't been charged...

and you're getting touchy? LOL

To respond to one of your earlier comments, I did not call you a fascist directly. I asked why would you give in to fascist tendencies?

[RebelOne]

40. He's been charged now with murder since they found her body.

[BiggJawn]

38. Damn right it was.

Because that's what you're advocating, whether you choose to admit it or not.

what diference is there between you saying it's OK to torture this guy because of an 11 y-o girl, and Ashcroft's "for the CHILDREN" stomping on the Constitution.

Nothing.You advocate using "all means" to force Joe Smith to spill his guts on where this girl is.

How is that diferent from the local cops beating the location of a pot farm out of some stoner?

[BeFree]

30. The girl

I wish nothing had ever happened to her and that she was at home, safe and sound. Of course. Did you really have to ask?

[JasonBerry]

22. I think we would be remiss

You just never know. We would be remiss not to put Carlie's picture in this thread.

[FredScuttle]

37. You're absolutely right

again, my heart goes out to her family and friends

[Peregrine]

31. Would you be willing to give up prosecuting him?

Because that is what you would be doing.

Would you trade locking him up and preventing him from doing it to another girl for the information that you want?

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. The police need to follow the letter of the law and lock this guy away

where he'll find true justice at the hands of prisoners that follow their own code.

[devilgrrl]

41. OT: Let's make sure they got the right guy first...

I don't know about you people, but the guy in the video tape and the guy in the mug shot look like two different people. :shrug:

That being said, a court of law should decide the fate of the accused and NOT public opinion!

[Fla_Democrat]

43. Press Conference

Call a live press conference, have the suspect standing next to me.

Ladies and Gentlemen, at this time, the little girl is still missing. Our only lead is the man you see next to me. He has been identified, his vehicle has been searched, and we are certain it was involved in the abduction. However, the suspect has refused to co-operate with the investigation. It seems we have no choice, but to let him go. We will be doing that in exactly 45 min., at 2:00 EST. He will be escorted to the corner of 22nd St. and Westing Dr. (mythical address), and released. Our officers will then return to their search for the missing child.

I wish to remind the public, that there is still a $50,000 reward for information leading to the discovery of Carlie. Since the investigation has taxed our agency, there seems little manpower left for protection of suspects, however, murder investigations will still be a priority.

To sum up, the man next to me will be out of police custody, his life is valuable, and any one who takes it will be facing the full consequences for that action. However any information, which this man posses an abundance of, leading to the return/recovery of the child will net a reward of $50,000, no questions asked.

Thank you for your time.



Then turn to resident suspect, and tell him he has exactly 40 min before he will be turned over to the tender mercies of people who see him as a pay check, not a suspect who has rights. Is there anything he wishes to say?

[resist]

44. Its hard but

Is that what you would want for your daughter's legacy? We have to model the behavior we would want from others. The old saying still holds - an eye for an eye just leaves everybody blind.

[latebloomer]

45. Sorry, the Constitution and the rule of law

were created so that EMOTION does not prevail and murder JUSTICE.

And yes, I have a little girl too.