Does anybody think we should drop the AWOL issue?

[progressiverealist]

With Bush saying he will "release his records, showing that he did his duty," I am wondering if this isn't an issue that could blow up in the Democrats' faces next fall.

I am sure Bush was AWOL, and I have no doubt that he did everything he could to stay out of harm's way during the Vietnam war. But don't you think Rove will find some pretty good scrubbers to take care of this little AWOL issue? If they come up with documents that the corporate media are willing to peddle and the sheeple believe, does that make this a losing issue for us?

I'm not sure, and I'm wondering what others think.

[demgrrrll]

1. No, I don't think we should drop this issue at all, it is getting great

traction.

[GOPisEvil]

2. No...if some "scrubbed records" are produced later...

...the logical question is, "What the f*ck took you so long? Were you scrubbing the records clean or something?"

[Skittles]

66. EVERYTHING IS ON MICROFICHE

were these so-called records on microfiche in years past?

[molly]

3. No - he did himself in when he said

"I am a war president". Many vets are watching.

[Mikimouse]

8. Man, did I ever misunderstand that statement...

I thought he said WHORE president. My bad.:hippie:

[snippy]

18. That's probably what he meant. Just another Bushism.

[BlueEyedSon]

4. "I did not have sex with that woman!"

Bush's Guard documents are his Blue Dress.

[goddess40]

16. apples and oranges

or should I say non-crime and felony. Going AWOL or deserting are much worse then some stupid adultery charge.

If it is purgery you are concerned about let's but Bush on the stand and ask him about his service time.

While they gave Bush an honerable discharge, it was because of who his father was not because he earned it.

[ArkDem]

36. ????

purgery

\Pur"ger*y\, n. The part of a sugarhouse where the molasses is drained off from the sugar.

[progressiverealist]

27. then why is he volunteering to release them

I just wonder if he took his "blue dress" to a reeeeeallly good cleaner

[snippy]

42. "I did not have sex with that Guard unit." I like it !

[Drifter]

5. I Agree ...

for the most part. It is nice to see the mainstream media at least mentioning it. Bush will not be impeached for using his privilege to get out of Vietnam. Bush will be impeached for misleading the American people (and lawmakers) into going to war. It is more important to expose the lies that lead to the war. Remember, Clinton was impeached for the lies not the blowjob.

The focus should be on the lies that lead to the war. The icing on the cake is the fact the this man used his father political connections to avoid Vietnam.

Cheers
Drifter

[Silverhair]

13. Impeached??? Not hardly.

Since when is a Rep congress going to impeach a Rep President?

[Terwilliger]

31. When their Rep constituents cry out for it

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. No

the AWOL meme has been planted and is growing roots. Once you convince people that someone is a liar, no matter what they do to prove otherwise, it is almost impossible to get people to trust you again.

[Karenina]

23. Hmmm...

Now what does THAT remind me of? ;-)

[420montana]

7. Keep it floating

this is a must, no matter if papers do turn up, it will be too little too late, I know he was awol or at the very least, twisted the rules due to daddy.....Yea for our side....

[MercutioATC]

9. WE should let it go. The MEDIA shouldn't.

There's no sense in the candidates pushing it. Let the media do it. Nothing I've seen makes it a clear AWOL case...I think the candidates should leave it alone and let the media handle it now.

[calimary]

46. The media won't unless they're urged to. That usually means - by US.

Check this out - found it elsewhere here on DU - it's from the New York Review of Books, and it's called "Now They Tell Us" - it's ALL about how the media caved to the interests of the "popular wartime president" and the machinery surrounding and enabling him.

Confirms all my worst fears. The media not only could drop the ball, it's ENCOURAGED to drop the ball. The only people able to fight back are us. Because there's nobody to counter the pro-bush pressures on them from everywhere else. NOBODY.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16922 - link to article in NY Review of Books

[Bronco69]

10. Nope. Make em prove it!

And if any paperwork magically appears we need to go over it with a fine toothed comb to make sure it wasn't forged.

[Dees]

11. Monkeynuts has already admitted they "scoured" the

records looking for evidence in 2000 and couldn't find anything. I take that to mean no record of reporting for duty in the A-ANG.

The Boston Globe, NY Times, Marty Heldt and AWOLBush.com are sticking to their guns and I am too. I say run with it.

[leesa]

12. I would like to see it lessened in magnitude. I think Bush can fix

whatever documentation he needs to make it slink by and then our credibility is gone. Stick to the important stuff. Iraq, Afghanistan, our governments role in 9-11, deficits. There are plenty of issues and this one is very likely to end up working against us. Keep asking, but not so loud, and be prepared for Bush to manufacture an 'end of subject' proof.

[xray s]

14. Initially I thought so, but now....

...I am starting to believe that the Democratic Op Research people have discovered something really BIG in those records that will really blow Bush away (drugs?).

I believe this because of the incredible amount of focus the party is giving this issue.

Stay tuned

[onecitizen]

54. I'm hoping they have!

I keep thinking they MUST know something more than we know in order to come out so forceful about it. Doncha think?

[KharmaTrain]

15. The Seeds finally have taken root...Sit Back & Watch

I don't think you need to sell a single soul on DU about bunnypant's desertion. Most of us are waiting for the other skeletons in the closet to come out...like that 6 months in the half-way house in Houston.

RoveCo. has really blown this one. By not coming clean with the manchild's military records, then playing Flyjock on the aircraft carrier and Rambo with the "bring it on" crap, he invited a second look into his military past, and his qualifications to play "Commander". This especially in light of the 2 wars he's started and the largest militarization of this nation since Vietnam. People want to know that the man calling the shots is straight up...especially since that's how this boy was sold to the vast majority...most of us didn't bite.

The debate now is in the Repugnican tent...not ours, so sit back and watch the knives come out. There's one segment that didn't know about the desertion until recently and are waking up to the ruse. Another segment is in denial and is now turning on the doubters...trying to whip them in shape. Then there's those in the middle who aren't sure if they've been as had as things are starting to appear. This is going to be especially telling in the months ahead...especially if its proven this boy didn't serve his time and has been covering up all along.

This issue goes to the root of the manchild's credibility with two groups...the "mainstream" Repugnicans...the 10-20% who made the difference in places like Ohio, WV and Missouri...even Arkansas and Tennessee could sway on this issue.

There's also the battle for the military. Not only is the GOOP on the threshold of losing it's iron grip on this vote, but expose the many other "leaders" who now are sending our troops into dangerous, endless missions who shirked their chance to serve when it was their turn.

For most of us, we gave this issue a rest when Jennings boosted it as an issue that started to get some press...and now are just watching the chain reactions the tap-dancing this regime is doing on the topic. Again, the cover-up is doing more damage than the truth and let's see how this dove-tails into other questions about this boy's qualifications to serve as CIC and his regime's ulterior motives.

[Jose Diablo]

29. Objective

We know the chump didn't do what he took an oath to do. Probably wiped out on dope at the time. The point is he did not earn the respect he has from the right wing. Remember he was an officer.

The objective is to fracture the right wing. Their party cannot abandon their leader because he has the power. But their voters can abandon the party.

I would suggest keep the pot simmering until about the end of April, then blast the news through a Dem candidate speech and focus on why the records seem incomplete.

One thing about the military you can depend on, there is ALWAYS a piece of paper that says where you are at any given time. The lack of any paperwork clearly shows a purge of the paper.

Summary, let it simmer, then smoke about April. We need some eye witnesses to what boy George was up to during those times.

[KharmaTrain]

43. This Thing Has It's Own Synergy Now

There's a lot in *'s party who want answers and the ones that used to work..."it doesn't matter" is getting caught in their craw...especially since they were so critical of Clinton and only so many can be hypocrites and actually live with themselves.

Just like many of us had a real strong feeling Clinton did something with Lewinski, it wasn't until he did his mea culpa that the real damage set in. I see the same thing happening with the manchild since the longer he sits on the records or refuses to put out forms everyone knows exists, he's guilty and getting guiltier of lying and deception in his own herd. The boy's really playing with fire.

I think events will do our work for us now. The continuing occupation will always shine a military light on this regime and then the "CIC's" ability to lead. The well's been poisoned and I really don't see how this boy stops the bleeding short of coming up with a perfectly clean record that backs up his story...which would have been done years ago.

Personally, I like third party surrogates, like Michael Moore or Max Cleland tweeking the issue now and then if it quiets down, but now the precedence has been set about the deception of this regime in the mainstream media...we have so many other ways to expose it. This is just opening a door...now let's storm the party!

[calimary]

49. TOTALLY! I love this - "the objective is to fracture the right wing."

You BET your bippy it is! This is excellent. We need to keep gnawing away. Sow the seeds of "reasonable doubt." There are more people wavering now, especially as they see the Democratic primary juggernaut dominating the news. The media cannot help but cover the Democrats. It just can't. It can't get around that this is big news because it's an election year and it's primary season and they HAVE to cover it. They can't just go around canonizing or being apologists for bush 24/7 with primary season to cover. They HAVE TO COVER IT. So that means what they're covering is the Democratic viewpoint - it's FINALLY getting out, because all those stump speeches and campaign sound bites and cheering crowds and campaign signs and posters and man-on-the-street interviews with DEMOCRATIC voters (this IS the DEMOCRATIC party primary season, that is), ALL of it is finally getting coverage. There is absolutely no way the Democratic message can be ignored or swept under the rug now, because it's primary season. So FINALLY, our side of it is getting out. And it IS influencing people. The proof is in the polls. Our boy bush hasn't had a strong uptick in his numbers since the SOTU, and it's only going downhill with everything that's happened since.

If nothing else, all this "new" input for America is beginning to provoke questioning. When the voters start hearing the other side of it, they have more to think about, and more to weigh. And for many of them, they're hearing this stuff for the first time.

We need to do everything we can to contribute to that objective - "to fracture the right wing." That's what observers always say is the problem with us Democrats - too many fractured pieces that don't come together in a smooth whole. That's supposedly what the republi-CONS do so well - come together in a smooth whole. Now, it's THEIR turn to be fractured and in disarray. We need to encourage this, every possible way we can.

[onecitizen]

56. Six months in a half-way house?

That's new to me. Wow! What's that about?

[flamingpie2500]

17. would you ask your milkman to do your taxes?

My point being that this is a VERY important issue because this war-monger has blood on his hands, and the qualifications for him to deal with war issues are NOTHING compared to Kerry's.

We have a president who AVOIDED the war and a candidate who FOUGHT one. Who better knows the horrors, the death, the destruction, the tears of the families, etc.

We unfortunately are in a quagmire of destruction and death and the American people may find they have to trust someone ELSE to get us out of it, the war in Iraq is far from over.

[bambo53]

19. No, do you think Rove will be civil?

I think at least 70 million dollars should be spent investigating the whereabouts of his penis for the last 30 years too. Make them cry uncle!

[Onward]

20. Drop the AWOL issue

I'd like to see a shift to the "daddy got me out of the war" issue.

That shows where his heart is, and it's indisputable. I'd like to see more on the "Champaigne Unit" that took care of rich Texas kids during the Vietnam War.

That's a more lasting, more "universal" issue than whether or not he showed up for drills. Maybe he couldn't be bothered to show up -- that may prove he's lazy and arrogant, which we all know. But more telling is the fact that he, and so many other rich kids, got to skip the bullets in Vietnam.

[Woodstock]

71. Good point - the daddy got me out of the war issue is BIG

And should be hammered. The AWOL stuff is fine, too, but I agree, the most important point is that he used his exceedingly privileged elite background to get out of what he's putting so many through now without a second thought. And they have so very much more to lose.

Someone posted an article about how the big con is how Bush has a manufactured good old boy image to overcome his background - this is the big thing that the Dems need to expose. He's NOT a regular guy.

[dusty64]

21. If he had the real

documents they would have been released in 2000. The continued stonewalling just proves they (once again) have something to hide. This should be only the beginning as his entire past comes under scrutiny and ALL the lies of what a "great and upstanding person" get refuted to show him for the evil POS that he REALLY is.

[enough]

22. It should stay simmering in the background, not as a "campaign issue"

No matter what kind of documentation they bring out, the undisputed facts are terrible for Bush. Whatever he did was the absolute minimum, always.

That picture of him on MTP, practically grovelling, hunched over and smirking -- "I got an honorable discharge!" Disgusting, as if this is what we want in the leader of the country. Is this the best you can do, George?

So the candidates can keep their distance from it, let the investigators and the angry citizens keep it alive.

Even the new evidence being reported today does not really help Bush. The White House says it shows he did his duty, but what it really shows, once again, is that he did practically NOTHING and was given the absolute minimum credit for it, and slid on out of there.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/02/10/bush_credited_for_guard_drills/

Anyone who was in Viet Nam at that time, or loved someone who was, or simply worried about the war, can remember exactly how long that year was during which Bush* supposedly showed up nine times for two or three days at a time.

This kind of evidence doesn't help him. You can add shirk to the smirk.

Just let it simmer.

[tabasco]

24. This vet doesn't think we should drop it.

If I needed records detailing what I was doing every day of my service, the Army has them. Of course, I have them too. W didn't show up in Alabama. If he did, the records would be there.

[freestatevet]

25. Not at all

it goes to character. If it was important for Clinton, it's important for Bush. If you have an obligation, you should fulfill it.

[ldoolin]

26. Yes, drop it.

By even making this an issue, you are insulting every single person who did the right thing by going to Canada or Sweden during the Vietnam War. By saying that Bush was wrong, you are also saying that the others, many of whom were following their consciences, were also wrong. You are using a reactionary issue of the right wing to attack Bush with.

Bush is a sleazebag, warmonger, and a right-wing extremist, and surely there's plenty of stuff to criticize him for without bringing up the one thing that would make me *more* likely to vote for him. (Don't worry, it'll never happen.)

[freestatevet]

30. No, those who fled

did not break a pledge. Bush may have. There's a difference.

[ldoolin]

35. Actually I think the difference is...

...that Bush was a rich kid who easily got into the National Guard with his family influence. And that his AWOL status was overlooked, because of his privileged family background, while working class kids who wouldn't go to Vietnam had to pay a price. That is the issue I think we should be emphasizing, not the mere fact that Bush was AWOL.

[freestatevet]

38. That's not as important to me

because so many others did the same. The big deal to me is that he made a commitment he did not live up to.

[enough]

34. Have to disagree.

I don't think this issue implies that those who went to Canada or Sweden were wrong. It means that Bush* has been making political hay out of a lie, as usual. It's the dishonesty, the hypocrisy and the wheedling that are the issue. Particulary for "Bring 'em on" Bush.

I'm saying this as one who actively protested the Viet Nam war for years. My husband, father and father-in-law were conscientious objectors. (In different wars -- my father went to jail for it.) I seriously do not believe that the issue here is loving war. I think it is character and truthfulness.

Also, there is a deeper issue here -- how seriously do our leaders take their own actions in going to war. The people who fight wars (the soldiers) and the people who have to change their lives because they don't believe in wars (conscientious objectors and those who leave the country) have to take wars ABSOLUTELY SERIOUSLY. George Bush* does not have it in him to understand this, either as a so-called "soldier" or as a so-called "president."

[ldoolin]

78. See my post below. We don't have any disagreement that I can see. (nt)

[Kahuna]

41. Wrong argument. The real "draft dodgers" are not hypocrites.

They were honest about the disdain for the war, or their cowardice. Bush was not honest. He supported the VN war, but was AWOL while the war was ongoing. Expose the phony!

[ldoolin]

77. See my post below (nt)

[drdigi420]

60. you cant possibly be equating

bush, who "supported my government" while hiding out in the guard with Clinton's concientious objection to the war on moral grounds

Clinton refused to fight because he knew it was wrong

Bush refused to fight because he's a coward and wanted OTHERS to fight in his stead.

[ldoolin]

76. No, I'm not...

I'm sorry you read it that way.

The problem is that too much of the talk about Bush being AWOL is focusing on the act itself, as if there were anything inherently wrong with AWOL or desertion. To frame the argument in that manner is to insult every single person who did it out of reasons of conscience.

The issue here is Bush's rich-boy connections getting him off the hook then (while poor working class kids were sent to prison or forced into exile), and his hypocrisy in sending others to Iraq now. The issue is not the AWOL itself.

[snippy]

28. It should be integrated into the theme that Bush lies about everything.

The AWOL issue has done some damage but it may or may not do additional damage. I would leave it to the media and wait to see whether something new turns up.

But, the lies about his Guard service should be added to the never ending littany of lies Bush has told. He has lied about war, tax cuts, jobs, 9/11, medicare, deficits, Valerie Plame, his flight to Baghdad, the Mission Accomplished banner, flying to the carrier, who was responsible for the uranium lies, who dropped the dog, his Guard sevice, and much, much more. He has lied about nearly every thing.

There is no subject so serious, somber, or shallow that Bush will not lie about it. If ridiculing Bush about his incessant lying becomes commonplace among people who do not follow politics, he is a dead duck come November.

[skippysmom]

32. It's all about credibility

People are finally waking up to the fact that our "president" is a liar in chief. Iraq is just one of a long string of lies we've been told, stretching back to the AWOL issue and perhaps earlier. He's established a pattern of behavior.

That said, let the media attack him all they want.

[Karenina]

33. What "we" are you talking about?

Two words: Visceral... response...

I will NOT let it drop. These guys will NOT let it drop.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1081070

It's about STANDARDS.

It's about CHARACTER.

It's about EQUALITY.

I know the issue of double standards has been a lifelong hot-button for me. Now there's blood everywhere, kids missing limbs and senses, soldiers returning to tell the REAL DEAL. And YOU think I should "let it drop?"

You can personally "let it drop" if you wish. I choose NOT to do so and will continue to promote it to the rafters. The *dauphin cannot string 5 words together unassisted. He PERSONALLY flunks my tests of the 3 issues above. This *pansy is fronting for *forces "exporting death and destruction to the entire globe" in defense of their power. I don't think so. OFF WITH THE MASK.

It's SUCH a *BAD JOKE! Look at all the pictures of this *aWol POS "commanding" the military. Lächerlich.

[Mari333]

37. and its about these kids

Kids sent somewhere on the pretense of a lie, by a warmongering group of men and women who have never seen action, and dont care what happens to these kids. No decent person who has seen the horrors of war will jump into it so easily as the comfortable cowards in the WH did.

[calimary]

62. All the folks on that post who are vets - MAN-oh-MAN! I'm in awe.

So many DUers here served their country with honor. Unfortunately their service has been mocked by the First Dog-Dropper, his lies, misrepresentations, poor excuses, and other assorted crap. I am so sorry, and so ashamed. Our veterans and our active duty people have truly served their country. That makes me proud, and grateful, as a civilian. That OTHER guy, well, he just makes me gag.

[Kahuna]

39. No! Thanks Peter Jennings for making it an issue!

nt

[Terwilliger]

55. Michael Moore

Jennings did what Moore expected him to do. It was Moore that introduced the topic.

[Brian Sweat]

40. Sometimes it's what was not said that was important.

If the allegations were false, then Bush had a perfect opportunity to deny them on Meet the Press. What I saw was an answer designed to create the impression of a denial without actually being a denial. Bush's performance on MTP indicated to me that the allegations were not totally off base.


Also, if you look at the records that are available it becomes more obvious. I will not go into detail, but the fact that Bush appears to have been assigned to a unit called ARF seems pretty damning. Supposedly, he would only be assigned to this unit for disciplinary purposes.


Finally, if Bush wants this to be over, he should simply release his DD 214. Until, we should ride this poney for all that it is worth.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snippy]

45. What does the Vietnam War have to do with Bush's lies about his service?

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snippy]

48. Who is Clinton?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snippy]

51. We should treat Bush like the biggest liar by far ever to set foot in

Washington, let alone the White House. Clinton is irrelevant to all except except the most grotesquely evil Clinton haters unless we amend the Constitution and he runs for president again.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snippy]

58. If a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of your mind

then don't vote for Kerry. Bush is the biggest liar ever to set foot in Washington. Bush lied and thousands died. Bush has killed more innocent people than died on 9/11. The Bush administration is the most criminal administration in the history of this country. Bush should not be president of a tree house boys' club in Texas. Kerry's alleged inconsistency is a very minor flaw compared to the foul filth and vile evil of the Bush presidency.

Like Bush himself, many Bush supporters who deceptively and mendaciously post here have no principles or integrity.

[Cooley Hurd]

61. Huge difference - Clinton did nothing illegal...

...in regards to Vietnam. Bill Clinton received student deferrments (not unlike Cheney, who received FIVE of them) and then, upon graduation from college, registered for the draft. He had a high # so he was never called. Bush, however, signed up for the ANG and couldn't be bothered to complete his time. 30 years later, Bush is sending men and women to fight when he himself couldn't be bothered to do so when it was his turn.

[Terwilliger]

59. who's bringing up the Vietnam war? Bush was nowhere near that

I think the important question is: Should a right-wing conservative who blathers incessantly about the military, and "our brave troops", and "the necessity for war", and "the rightness of American ideals", etc should be taken to TASK for a military record that suggests that one has no military honor at all, much less someone who should be in command of the armed forces of the US.

[Imalittleteapot]

52. The AWOL issue is about deception.

Although I have family and friends who went to Nam, there are plenty of friends that did everything they could to avoid service there. I don't criticize GWB for not wanting to go. Yes, he was privileged which enabled him to jump ahead on the list to get the National Guard position, but there was plenty of that going on during that sad period.

What bothers me is that they have apparently used the same priveleged position to cover the facts, which has become a trait of the Bushies. AWOL or not, the truth should be told because the question has been asked. They don't know how to do it.

There are bigger issues, but they all boil down to one four letter word...LIES.

[BillZBubb]

53. Never drop it!

This issue is like the steady drip of water on a rock. The water doesn't appear to be making much headway for a very long time, but eventually it will erode the rock.

Bush based his whole reason to be president on his character. We must continue to show exactly what kind of character he has. The truth and his character don't even have a passing acquaintance.

[chelaque liberal]

63. Absolutely not!

It goes to his character.

[Wapsie B]

64. Nope.

n/t

[Karenina]

65. And I ain't lettin' the damn thread drop either.

:mad: :kick: :mad: :kick: :mad: :kick: :mad:

[mike1963]

67. See this thread if you've missed it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1104746&mesg_id=1104746

[devinsgram]

68. Absolutely, possitively NO

[Karenina]

69. Harrumph!

The very idea... I gotta go practice now. :kick: for "good measure."

[jokerman93]

70. We need to hit them with truth

We need to hit them with the truth relentlessly. As much as we got. If you want to trade blows one for one like usual, yeah, some will backfire. But Bush needs to have his face bloodied and his ribs and teeth broken with the truth.

We need to use the Truth as a weapon and be fearless. At this point we have nothing to lose -- and the future of a free nation to win.

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

As if the Republicans and their deceitful apologia were entirely besides the point. That's their way of war isn't it? Let's take it to them.

[ThomWV]

72. Absolutly Not

No, this is a matter of the man's integrity, or lack of it I should say. This man should be shown all the forgivness he showed to death-row inmates during the time he served as Governor of Texas.

[waldenx]

73. yes

Vietnam should not be an issue 30 years after its over.
I don't care if anyone was awol during that war.

[Karenina]

74. Excuse me????

The effects of the American military presence in Viet Nam are felt TODAY. Environmental destruction, illness and what all else. The best diplomatic work has subsequently been done by THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE CLUSTERFUCK, NOT by the U.S. Gubmint. You must be very young. Folks I grew up with are STILL on America's streets, crazy as loons, FUBAR, homeless and uncared for because of the LUNACY of Viet Nam.

[fob]

75. Yeah.

bush*, cheney, poppy, perle, rice, powell, scott mcclellan, freepers, neo-cons, and a similarly slimy list of repuke chickenhawks!

As for the rest of us, Hell No!

[Mobius]

79. UM NO

The records will fry his ass. keep em comin!:kick:

[Karenina]

80. Two words

Core... Values...

Sind wir egal als Menschen oder nicht?

Is the *dimwit-doped-up-dauphin so much "better" than you that he deserves "special rights?" Just asking. :shrug:

[proud patriot]

81. Absolutely Not

:hi:

[Karenina]

82. "WE" are toasting his *pansyass with it.

:D Works for me. Does it work for you?

[David Zephyr]

83. No.

Absolutely not.