I can't help but feel that we are now counting down to 9/11 part 2

[Sperk]

I hope I'm wrong, but Scottie is taking a lot of heat today, you can feel the media is thrilled that they can now do their jobs.

Cheney, Halliburton international investigation

Wilson's wife

Democrats documents thefts

9/11 panel pressure

laughable WMD commission

way too many scandals for even Rovenator to handle.

:scared:

[JasonBerry]

1. So they're going to kill thousands of American citizens?

I hate Bush and probably Rove even more, but I cannot buy that a new campaign tactic is the murder of thousands of innocent Americans in cold blood. Personally, I think DU sounds juvenile when we talk like this.

[seventhson]

2. I think this sounds like an educated intelligent estimate

and analysis of the situation.

Mature and based on experience.

[JasonBerry]

7. Historical perspective

I know that you post in every conspiracy thread and are a "true believer." That's fine. But some of us think it's a silly distraction and actually HURTS the cause of ousting Bush to say that things are going bad so they'll be planning a new attack on thousands of Americans. I'm not sure what you meant by your post as it was hardly an analysis of anything more than my post - just as my post was an analysis of the original. Allow those of us who don't buy into all the LIHOP/MIHOP some measure of room to dissent from all of that.

[Sperk]

9. I'm a true believer in DISSENT! Dissent all you want....

just don't say that we who believe differently are juvenile. That's all. Truce?

[JasonBerry]

11. Fair enough

I would agree that juvenile was a poor choice of words - sorry.

[arcane1]

10. 9/11 was the best thing to happen to George Bush

and he knows it

killers don't mind killing

[Minstrel Boy]

18. If you hope to oust Bush, then historical perspective

is something you need.

Educate yourself about the high crimes of the Bush family. Even excluding the atrocities you consider "silly distractions", there is ample evidence for their guilt in such things as Nazi money-laundering and war profiteering, October Surprise, Iran/Contra, BCCI, the S&L scam, Inslaw, CIA drug running, Carlyle-bin Laden ties, election fraud....

Such a historical context, plus the imperial blueprint of the neoconservatives and the exigencies of Peak Oil, tell me to expect the worst.

LIHOP/MIHOP isn't a religious conviction for "true believers." It's where the evidence led me.

[alittlelark]

48. I, after 40 years of 'comfortable cowardice' had to swallow the red pill

I agree that this could happen. I have never believed in 'conspiracy theories'. I now only believe in the facts as I view them. As my dad (AF Col.) said 'there's no way that could have happened'(9-11 ineptitude). He left the Mil-Ind complex a year or so ago - but he had made A Lot of $. My dad had to swallow that pill too. It is bitter and hard to choke down.:(

[SpiralHawk]

86. Swallow the Red Pill -- great idea for a website

Got to it (I'm great at thinking up work for other people).

PS, you can send the royalty checks to me on the Yucatan's Carribean Coast -- the Mexican Riviera.

[tom_paine]

57. Well said and true, Minstrel Boy

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[TNOE]

29. With that view

you are allowed on the Right Nation discussion board. ONLY liberals who DO NOT BELIEVE that the government was behind or involved in 9/11 are allowed on their boards...... how's that sound??? Oh, and wait until you see the shear stupidity of these people - they know NOTHING and yet will argue with you endlessly with no proof.

It does seem as though they have removed the "Liberal Lies" section - apparently most of it turned out to not be lies after all........

[JasonBerry]

38. What?

Are you suggesting that I would be more at home on a far right discussion board because I don't accept LIHOP\MIHOP? That's not fair at all, and rather offensive.

[TNOE]

73. No - that's not what I'm suggesting

but I am saying to "outright dismiss" ANYTHING that this administration does is not "juvenile". The evidence points quite to the contrary - and there is a mountain of evidence that has been gathered by numerous sources. But NOT believing in LIHOP/MIHOP would allow you to set them straight on numerous other issues that they lie and delude themselves about - if you have the patience..... which I do not. No offense intended. Have you looked at the evidence? It is really hard not to fall in one of the two categories if you see it all put together.

[RapidCreek]

53. Let me ask you this...

Was the war in Iraq LIHOP or MIHOP....perish the thought...how silly. Surely the president wouldn't kill hundreds of American soldiers and maim thousands more for political reasons! Surely he wouldn't kill and maim thousands of innocent Iraqis for the same reason. Nahhh he wouldn't do that. Get real....this man and his cohorts are EVIL! Don't you get it?

RC

[freestatevet]

13. What experience? N/T

[SemperEadem]

51. Given who's in charge and the irrefutable list of grievances

Bush has trailing in behind him, I do believe that he is capable of, if not ordering it--standing by while it happened and the trying to look surprised when it goes down on his watch again. The only thing that will save him is sympathy numbers and a lot of people enjoy being lulled into the stupor his rhetoric of warmongering provides.

I put nothing past that man and his #2.

[Sperk]

4. really...they already killed thousands of Iraqi civilians, hundreds

of American soldiers...KNOWING that the US was in NO danger what so ever. And yes, thousands of Americans feel that they at least "let" 9/11 happen so they could start their conquests around the world. Look up PNAC's own words...paraphrasing here...American's will never go along with this (taking over Arab nations), without a catastrophic event like Pearl Harbor.

And it's a FACT that we would have had a 9/11 decades ago without Kennedy stopping it. "Operation Northwoods"

I think it's juvenile to believe that these people are not capable of anything!

[soleft]

5. Campaign tactic?

It's juvenile to know that the earth's resources are rapidly expiring and that the subscribers to PNAC have a plan to secure American dominance, and that this if faciliated by Bush's messiah complex. It's about maintaining power and control over the world's most devasting military force and using that force to manifest destiny.

This isn't a campaign tactic. It's about securing domination.

[Brian Sweat]

6. I have to agree.

I do not believe that Bushco planned 9-11 or that they are planning another such act. I think that Bush was just incompetent and allowed 9-11 to happen by taking his eye of the prize.

However, there is no doubt that we are counting down to another such incident. It is only a matter of time. The actions taken by Bushco have done little to increase our security while creating thousands, if not millions, of people who would love to top 9-11.

[RBHam]

15. They've done it once

They'll do it again.

[Cat Atomic]

22. I understand your skepticism, JasonBerry. I share it

However, have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? There's no evidence that the plan was ever put into action, but it did in fact exist in the 60's, as documents released under the FOIA show.

Domestic terrorist campaigns have been used in other countries to manipulate public opinion. The Reichstag fire is one example. Apparently we had guys in government that were quite willing to consider the use of such actions right here in the U.S. at one point.

It *is* a possibility, and I think we do ourselves a disservice by dismissing such ideas out of hand.

Personally, I think the Bush campaign would ruin itself by attempting it at this point. He can only sell himself as "protector of the public", and if we're suffering actual terrorist attacks, that'd be an impossible sell.

I do think we'll be seeing alot of scare tactics like terror alerts, rumors, talk of terrorist "chatter", and so forth. I seriously doubt there'd be anything as overt as an actual Bush Administration-run terrorist attack.

[LeahMira]

23. I'd like to think you were right...

I hate Bush and probably Rove even more, but I cannot buy that a new campaign tactic is the murder of thousands of innocent Americans in cold blood.

... but there really isn't any reason to think that they wouldn't murder thousands of us if they think they can get away with it.

If you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

[Terran]

62. Let's just pray

that they're wrong, Jason.

Dirk

[DuctapeFatwa]

79. Don't think of it like that. It's about unity. Remember those poll numbers

after the 9-11 events? In the 90s! Unprecedented.

Without that kind of near-unanimous support do you think an appointed figurehead could have gotten the support he needed to begin the important process to impose America's will on its properties around the world and secure American oil there?

Without that incredible level of unity do you think it would have been possible for the regime to seize and disappear ANYBODY without charges or rights, even US citizens with brown skin?

Do you think that without that overwhelming groundswell of unity and resolve to bring evildoers who hate freedom to justice that Mobil, Shell, Halliburton would be enjoying the spectacular increases in revenue that they do today?

Even the President's brother might be just another politician's relative with a little security company.

[dflprincess]

94. They don't seem especially concerned

about how many Americans they've allowed to be killed or maimed in Iraq. (And you know they don't care about how many Iraqis are dead.)

[info being]

100. These guys have no problem with murder

That is clear...what's the difference between Iraqi's and Americans if it means money to them?

The fallacy is that these people are somehow sane and just like us. They are sociopaths.

[loftycity]

102. Sociopaths is right on...They are hi -jacking and tearing

everything down that we have worked and shed blood for.
They want the New Deal gone. They want empire--they want Upstairs --Downstairs. And they just might get it. We fought hard to get over empire and now it's coming back full force.
Pity they think they will have some sort of nirvana---but sociopaths don't know what to do after they get what they want.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

3. Wouldn't put it past them.

If they commit such an atrocity, it will yield no political advantage to them, quite the contrary. I am convinced that any terrorist attack on the US now will finish Shrub off. I hope it doesn't come down to that, though.

[arcane1]

12. the next attack will bring Tommy Frank's plan into action

suspend the Constitution, cancel elections, and martial law.

they killed thousands of Iraqis for money and politics, why would they care about American peasants any more than Iraqi peasants?

I put NOTHING past these killers

[freestatevet]

14. Good Gracious

Way to take something out of context. General Franks never had a "plan." And if you said he did, please provide evidence.

[arcane1]

16. Ok

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/211103martiallaw.html

Tommy Franks: Martial Law Will Replace Constitution After Next Terror Attack

Newsmax

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

<snipped>

Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.

“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

Franks didn’t speculate about how soon such an event might take place.

<snip>

[freestatevet]

17. That's not any evidence

of a PLAN. That's evidence of General Franks saying wht he THINKS could happen. Come on, you can do better than that -- show me the plan!

[arcane1]

19. jeez, what's your problem? A little hostile are we?

:eyes:

Franks said it, that's good enough for me

[freestatevet]

24. He didn't say it was a PLAN!

Good grief!

[Minstrel Boy]

28. Tommy Franks, former Commander-in-Chief of the US Central Command

You think his martial law remark was a baseless assertion? You don't think Franks would be privy to discussions as to how the Bush Administration would respond to another attack on US soil?

[freestatevet]

30. I think it was

one man's opinion. And I know who Franks is--I worked for him.

[Minstrel Boy]

37. well then you ought to know that his opinion

is much more informed than any of ours when it comes to the matter of martial law.

[freestatevet]

42. Actually, it's not

Now the NORTHCOM Commander, yes.

[Jose Diablo]

82. Let me see, NORTHCOM Commander would be Mayers, right?

The same Mayers that Commanded NORAD on 9-11?

[JackRiddler]

101. No, EBERHARD

Myers was the acting Chairman of the JCS (Shelton was on a plane to Europe) and confirmed as such on 9/13.

Eberhard was in charge of NORAD and has since been shifted to NORTHCOM, likely to run the country after imposition of military rule.

Remember, these guys were promoted after their performance on 9/11!

[PaDUer]

87. And don't forget

that meeting Ridge had a few weeks ago with the media to discuss how to present the news if another attack occurs...WHY would they meet about this if nothing was in the workings!

[arcane1]

31. fine, I'll say "plan" in quotations, will that appease you?

at least I'm contributing something to the thread besides attacks on the posters.

[freestatevet]

36. Trying for accuracy

and not contributing to yet ANOTHER conspriracy theory is attacking???

[RBHam]

21. You need to educate yourself

It's conventional wisdom in the Beltway that another attack would help Bush.

The “war on terror” and American democracy—some ominous warnings
By Patrick Martin, wsws.org
27 November 2003

Three commentaries published recently in the US media, all by well-connected observers of the US military, have suggested that a major new terrorist attack within the United States could disrupt the 2004 elections and even result in military intervention on the streets of America as well as the suspension of the Constitution.

more...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/warn-n27.shtml

[freestatevet]

25. Thanks

Read it. All BS IMHO.

[RBHam]

26. You trust the neo-cons?

Taking Liberties with the Constitution
by Daniel Hellinger, Professor of Political Science,
Webster University, St. Louis

excerpt:
Already in 1981 under a Reagan executive order, government agents were implementing a plan orchestrated by Lt. Col. Oliver North and the National Security Council to disrupt activities by opponents of the US war in Central America. Hoping to involve American ground troops in a war against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, and with the lessons of Vietnam fresh in his mind, North made plans to deal with the antiwar movement. He and officials at the Federal Emergency Management Administration developed contingency plans to implement martial law, suspend the Constitution, and prepare detention camps. This was too much even for Attorney General William French Smith, who scotched the plan after he became aware of it. But years later the congressional committees investigating the Iran-Contra scandal refused to take testimony on the matter in public.

more...
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:uMKi6d1gi2IJ:www.greens.org/s-r/28/28-02.html+american+martial+law+contingency+plans+evidence&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[freestatevet]

27. Trust them on what?

Some things, yes. Some, no.

[arcane1]

32. hmm, what do you trust them on?

:shrug:

[freestatevet]

39. I trust them not

to kill thousands of Americans for some so called "political gain."

[Minstrel Boy]

40. and you trust them

to do what, exactly?

:shrug:

[SemperEadem]

55. then you will be the one caught unawares when it happens...

secure in the steadfast protection of your disbelief

[freestatevet]

58. Ok thanks

I'll be happy in my ignorance.

[tom_paine]

83. Yes, yes, what do you trust them to do?

I am a moderate (now a radicalized moderate) with an equal distrust of the Extreme Left and Extreme Right.

I DO trust True Conservatives (in the absence of an Imperial Overlord) to do certain things. Allow me to list them:

Protect the right to gun ownership
Counterbalance liberal excesses in matters of Criminal Rights
To continue bringing up the (IMHO) valid points regarding the flawed nature of Affirmative Action, which will perhaps one day lead to a better, fairer solution.
To continue bringing up the dangers of current immigration policy and to help modify it
To carry the flag of Individual Liberty and Privacy over the Big Brother State.

These are but a few things I'd trust True Conservatives to do if they weren't in the same position as we are, having the Imperial Boot on their Necks and forced to support things the Emperor wants though they know it goes against True Conservatism.

I trust the Busheviks to do nothing except lie, steal, defraud, and rig elections. Plenty of evidence they have done PLENTY of all those things. If we had a vigorous, healthy Republic, these bastards would be in the dock already.

But we don't.

Given that the Busheviks agree (not with their lying words, but withtheir ACTIONS, which is the only relevant thing when observing known serial liars) with NONE of these True Conservative positions, I think it is good evidence that the Busheviks are NOT Conservatives, but Totalitarian Imperials with the same respect for democracy and democratic institutions as Ferdinand Marcos.

So, I'd like to know, just what is it you believe the Busheviks would do that is good for America?

I told you what I liked about True Conservatives, and what I once trusted them to do before they, too fell under the Imperial Boot.

How about it? Return the favor? I'm dying to hear what you have to say freestatevet?

[Minstrel Boy]

90. great post, tom paine

Gee, I miss True Conservatives. I could disagree with them without thinking them evil. And even, on occasion, agree with them.

Their Canadian tent was once the Progressive Conservative Party. It had a largely honorable history before the era of Reaganite neoliberal Brian Mulroney. His election in 1984 was the largest margin of victory in Canadian politics, and his regime ended with the greatest defeat. And now, the whole party has experienced a rather hostile "friendly" takeover by the neoconservative fringe. The remaining, truly honorable members have quit in disgust.

From leftists to liberals to radical centrists to true conservatives to libertarians, we're all partners in the venture of making a different world than the one imagined by the likes of Michael Ledeen.

[tom_paine]

98. Notice freestatevet failed to answer my questions in this & other posts

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[supercrash]

84. Ummmm...

Can you explain why the White House staff went on Cipro BEFORE the anthrax attacks ?

Maybe they knew it was coming ?...Or...They just got really really lucky that the terrorists sent anthrax...and they just happened to be on Cipro

[tom_paine]

85. One wonders in Germany 1933 how many said the same thing

"It is absurd to think that the Fuhrer and the Nazis had anything to do with the Reichstag Fire, let alone set it themselves for political gain."

How about the 1980s Phillipines?

"It is absurd to think that Ferdinand Marcos had Benino Aquino killed because he was a politicasl adversary gaining ground."

OOOOH! OOOOH! I got a good one.

The Old American Republic 1972

"It is absurd to think that break-ins and bribery was discussed on a daily basis inside the Oval Office. Absurd to think that aborted plans to murder hostile newspaper columnists like Jack Anderson were bandied about. Absurd to think that a sitting pResident would autorize illegal wiretaps ro try to use governmental agencies like the IRS as political weapons. Absurd! You conspiracy theorist!"

Yes, you are in very good company.

Plus a change, plus a la meme chose (the more things change the more they stay the same).

Here's another relevant quote:

"All over the world I dread the self-deception which we have experienced - that this could not happen here. It can happen anywhere. It is improbable only where the broad masses of the population are aware of the possible menace and thus will not be lulled into security; where they know the type of totalitarianism and will recognize it in its rudimentary stages and in each of its manifestations - this Proteus who keeps appearing in ever new masks, who slips eel-like out of our grasp, who does the opposite of what he says, who distorts the meaning of words, who speaks not in order to communicate or tell the truth, but in order to numb, to distract, to hypnotize, to intimidate, to dupe - who will exploit and evoke every fear, and will promise security and utterly wreck it at the same time."
--Karl Jaspers, german psychiatrist, lived through the Rise of Hitler

Just WHO could he be talking about?

[RBHam]

41. Some things, yes?

Like pre-emptive War? Forcibly democratizing the Middle East?

By the way, who do you think "Al Qaeda" actually works for?
Why are they continually shielded by intel agencies like the FBI and MI6?

Al Qaeda financier's company had FAA access, was protected by FBI
by Dan Hopsicker
http://www.madcowprod.com/

SHAYLERGATE:
British Press Gagged on Reporting MI6's £100,000 bin Laden Payoff By Paul Joseph Watson (Updated 11th Nov.)
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/shayler_gate.html

November 11th Update -
London Observer: MI6 'halted bid to arrest bin Laden'
The London Observer today confirmed the story I reported on last month. Shayler was imprisoned for 6 months for revealing British Intelligence's protection of bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.

"British intelligence paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice."

Full story at http://politics.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,9174,837333,00.html


QUESTIONABLE TIES
Tracking bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas

by Wayne Madsen
http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/25/25/feature3.shtml

THE REAL ENEMY WITHIN
The Neo-Con hijacking of America
Manuel Valenzuela
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_3981.shtml

[freestatevet]

45. Oh Al Qaeda

works for us. Sigh, I give up. Conspiracies everywhere. I wonder why there is any tin foil left in the supermarkets at all.

[Minstrel Boy]

47. "works for us"? Well, that all depends

on who you mean by us.

By the way, it would be nice if you tried responding to, I dunno, let's say any of the evidence before making with the tinfoil cracks.

[freestatevet]

50. What evidence? N/T

[Minstrel Boy]

54. I was referring specifically to the evidence of complicity in RBHam's

links posted above, but, well, anything would do.

But if you mean "What evidence?" because you see none, then you need to inform yourself.

I'm not even asking for a particularly open mind. Just an honest, critical one.

Start here, with the 9/11 timelines and outlines, drawn from mainstream sources:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/index2.html

[freestatevet]

56. M Boy

No matter what you post, I will NEVER believe that anyone in the US Government allowed 9/11 to happen. Period. I've read all the data, and remain unswayed a bit.

[Minstrel Boy]

63. Now that

is a statement of faith. I'm always prepared to be convinced that I'm wrong.

But then, you've "read all the data." Which is more than I can say, and I have nine binders full of the stuff.

[Sterling]

92. Wow that's big of you

"No matter what you post, I will NEVER believe that anyone in the US Government allowed 9/11 to happen. Period. "

At least we can write you off as incredibly biased and willfully misinformed based on your own words. You save people a lot of time that way.

I tend to respect people who are objective and fair minded. I find that these people are interested in the truth and not making the world fit into their own agenda whatever that may be.

Sometimes the truth is ugly. I don't make the rules.

[SemperEadem]

59. the evidence you didn't provde to refute what has been said

where's your proof it could never happen?

[freestatevet]

66. Can't prove a negative

Nice try though.

[Sterling]

93. Can't prove it but it does not stop you from saying it?

Funny how that works. You accuse everyone here of baseless accusation?


The funny thing is more often than not people can prove a negative. It's called an alibi. It keeps people from going to prison.

Although the burden of proof is on the accuser in our system it is completely untrue that you cannot prove a negative.

AFor example I can prove I did not kill OJ's wife. Can you?

[RBHam]

61. What? You've never heard of mercernaries?

Al Qaeda Recruited Gulf War Vets in 1992, Effort Linked To Saudi Gov't

http://www.intelwire.com/hamptonel010604.html

Intelwire.com ^ | 1/6/2004 | J.M. Berger
In 1992, al Qaeda recruited U.S. veterans by exploiting a Saudi government program that had converted thousands of G.I.s to Islam after the Gulf War. Clement Rodney Hampton-El, an African-American convert to Islam convicted of plotting in 1993 to blow up New York City landmarks, was called to a meeting at the Saudi Embassy in December 1992 and given the names of U.S. servicemen about to finish their tours of duty, whom he attempted to recruit as volunteer mujahideen and paramilitary trainers for a bin Laden-sponsored insurgency in Bosnia.

-------------------------

And what of Grover Norquist's shenanigans?

Friends in high places
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/11/news_pf/Floridian/Friends_in_high_place.shtml

St. Petersburg Times ^ | MARY JACOBY
Friends in high places WASHINGTON --

excerpt:
Norquist and Saffuri founded the Islamic Institute in 1999 with seed money from Qatar, Kuwait and other Middle Eastern sources. Among the contributors, records show, was Saffuri's former boss, a Muslim charity director and founder of the American Muslim Council, Abdurahman Alamoudi.

The records show Alamoudi gave at least $35,000 to the institute, although Alamoudi said in a written statement he did "not recollect having been quite that generous."

Also funding the institute were two Virginia-based nonprofit organizations. The Safa Trust donated at least $35,000, and the International Institute of Islamic Thought gave $11,000, the records show.

Last March, federal authorities raided those groups and others in Operation Greenquest, a major assault on suspected terrorist financial networks.

Among the more than 50 targets of the raid were people and organizations connected to Norquist and the Islamic Institute. They included Sami Al-Arian, a charity associated with Alamoudi, Safa Trust and the International Institute for Islamic Thought, or IIIT.

-----------------------

More truth most Americans are ignorant of...

America used Islamists to arm the Bosnian Muslims

The Srebrenica report reveals the Pentagon's role in a dirty war

Richard J Aldrich
Monday April 22, 2002
The Guardian

The official Dutch inquiry into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, released last week, contains one of the most sensational reports on western intelligence ever published. Officials have been staggered by its findings and the Dutch government has resigned. One of its many volumes is devoted to clandestine activities during the Bosnian war of the early 1990s. For five years, Professor Cees Wiebes of Amsterdam University has had unrestricted access to Dutch intelligence files and has stalked the corridors of secret service headquarters in western capitals, as well as in Bosnia, asking questions.
His findings are set out in "Intelligence and the war in Bosnia, 1992-1995". It includes remarkable material on covert operations, signals interception, human agents and double-crossing by dozens of agencies in one of dirtiest wars of the new world disorder. Now we have the full story of the secret alliance between the Pentagon and radical Islamist groups from the Middle East designed to assist the Bosnian Muslims - some of the same groups that the Pentagon is now fighting in "the war against terrorism". Pentagon operations in Bosnia have delivered their own "blowback".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/article/0,2763,688327,00.html

-----------

IT GETS WORSE!

"OSAMAGATE"
by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO110A.html

Who Is Osama Bin Laden?
by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Osama bin Laden's Bush family
Business Connections
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html

Notes On Osama bin Laden
http://www.spongobongo.com/her9989.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

8. The tension's building.

And the more dismal their numbers, the more I'm expecting something.

If there isn't an attack opportunely timed for Bush, I'll be extremely surprised, not to say relieved.

[loftycity]

20. Add no jobs, worst economy , no healthcare I think

that also qualifies as slow murder of millions? Don't you think?
And they would stand aside if something came up and let it happen again.
The constant scare tactics to draw our attention elsewhere and they have not done one thing to protect us(except spend more of our money)...we are more unsafe than ever.
Carlye is the company that destroys to re-construct to make cash ...don't forget that either

[Karenina]

33. Allowing *corp cronies

to POISON the AIR, WATER AND FOOD SUPPLY? Does THAT count?

[theorist]

34. We have Michael Moore's "deserter" comment to thank. n/t

[Bronco69]

35. I absolutely agree!

I've had this feeling for a few days now.

[western mass]

43. These are the people...

who have already condemned millions to premature death, disability, and/or misery through rollbacks of pollutions controls and health / environmental standards, opposition to medical coverage, disastrous economic policies... not to mention the thousands of non-Americans and 500+ Americans murdered in their illegal war, and you believe that they'd suddenly show qualms in murdering some Americans in a more dramatic way?

Please, lay out your logic for me.

These are people who have demonstrated, dramatically and unhesitatingly, their utter lack of morality or concern when the well-being of other Americans comes in conflict with lining their pocketbooks or consolidating their power.

In any case, they won't have to murder 3,000... a hundred would do. It's the scare that's important, not the body count.

(comment to the skeptics, not the original poster! :)

[RBHam]

44. 9-11 is an updated Operation Northwoods

Kennedy refused to sign off on "Operation Northwoods",
would Bush have refused Unka Dick and his cronies when they presented him with "Operation 9-11"?

The bastards killed JFK before I ever got to know him, but I am confident in stating that George W Bush is NO Jack Kennedy.

Go to - http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430 /

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Actual US military documents from the National Security Archives (online) that the best selling author - Bamford used for his book - Body of Secrets, which exposed and documented the Joint Chiefs of Staff plans to terrorize/murder Americans solely to 'justify' to the American public the war the military wanted to start against Cuba - Operation Northwoods.

There is absolutely no doubt. The information is not heresay, nor is conjecture. The National Security Archives documentation is the March 13, 1962 TOP SECRET Joint Chiefs of Staff's report.


Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.


here's an excerpt of the book review at Amazon -

"...In the name of anticommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba."


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from The NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVES :


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430 /

April 30, 2001


In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington, including sink a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated), faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a Remember the Maine incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.



Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba , March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.

(go to link for pdf file)

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this is another excellent review
GO TO -
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/4383

[freestatevet]

46. Has anyone but

Bamford seen that supposed document?

[Minstrel Boy]

49. From the National Security Archives of George Washington University:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

[freestatevet]

52. And this is proof that the

SECDEF or anyone outside the JCS saw it?? LMAO Not even close. Sorry, I still don't buy into these conspiracy things. Make fun of me if you want. Call me names, whatever. LMAO

[Minstrel Boy]

60. This is proof that

senior US officials have entertained false flag terrorism upon American soil for strategic gain. Why does that make you want to laugh your ass off?

Northwoods reached Kennedy's desk. If he'd approved it, and a wave of Cuban terrorism rocked America, it would have been madness to believe the Pentagon complicit. Yet it would have been.

[freestatevet]

68. It reached Kennedy's Desk??

and you know this how??

[Minstrel Boy]

69. there's this:

Operation Northwoods was a document drafted in 1962 by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and presented to President John F. Kennedy on March 13, 1962. Long believed to be residing in the imagination of conspiracy theorists, the document was declassified in recent years by the Freedom of Information Act.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Operation-Northwoods

[freestatevet]

71. The question remains

how do you know it reached Kennedy's desk?

[Minstrel Boy]

74. Why do you doubt that it did?

The document was signed off by the Joint Chiefs. It's a matter of public record that Lemnitzer met with Defense Secretary McNamara to argue for Northwoods, and that three days later Kennedy told Lemnitzer there was no chance of overt force being used to overthrow Castro.

A few posts above you doubted Northwoods existed outside of Bamford's imagination. Then you doubted it reached civilian oversight. What will be your next fallback position?

[freestatevet]

75. I still doubt NORTHWOODS really "exsisted"

outside of some planning scheme. There is no evidence it ever reached SECDEF or POTUS. In absence of such evidence, I can only conclude it did not happen. McNamara, of course, denies that he ever heard of Northwoods.

[Minstrel Boy]

76. "some planning scheme"

Well, to some degree, of course: that's exactly what it was. It didn't go operational. No one says it did. But this was a scheme sponsored by Lemnitzer and the joint chiefs. They signed off on it. Or are you saying even that's false?

[freestatevet]

77. I'm saying I don't know

I have no idea of they really signed off on this or not.

[Minstrel Boy]

78. I find it interesting that your burden of proof

for Northwoods is so high as to be beyond proving, and yet your presumption of innocence for the Bush Administration regarding 9/11 is so forgiving. It appears to be really an article of faith for you, that the US government could not conceive of such things. Never mind the reality of http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf . You simply can't permit Northwoods to exist.

And why? Well, as you said above, "No matter what you post, I will NEVER believe that anyone in the US Government allowed 9/11 to happen. Period."

That's not thinking critically. That's credulous faith.

[tom_paine]

97. Well said, Minstrel Boy

He has a Fair and Balanced burden of proof, you know.

VERY Fair and Balanced.

[loftycity]

96. Maybe reading a bit more history would help you...

I never believed this stuff and just started to read history and then you might change you mind or not.
As in the Bhagavad Gita--don't wake the sleeping man--if you do wake him you will enter into the nightmare. Just Happens.

[Norquist Nemesis]

65. The trouble with conspiracy theories

is that the "plan" is not exposed until the dots can be connected. What is a conspiracy but a "plan" put into effect. If you can connect the dots on a series of events, then there is proof of a "plan." If the dots are random, unrelated events, then there is no proof of anything except the possibility that opportunity was recognized and exploited for advantage.

Now the question is...Can you connect any of the dots?

[loftycity]

67. Conspiracy Theory are words from the makers of the Plan

The dots are connected.

When the media does not report the Plan--that does not turn it into a Conspiracy Theory.

[Redneck Socialist]

64. Take this with as much tinfoil as you like...

...but FEMA already has all the powers it needs to take control in the case of "national emergency."

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

What Franks talks about is not beyond the realm of possibility. Unlikely? Yes, but not inconceivable.

[kaitykaity]

70. I believe what I've seen with my own eyes.

I saw a split-screen presentation of where Bush was when the four planes went off course on 9/11. (CBC broadcast January 2002, The Great Deception.) http://www.karscot.com/sept11.html

The son-of-a-bitch sat there in that classroom after the first plane hit. "That's one horrible pilot."

Now, I don't know at the resident skeptic in this thread, but that tells me all I need to know about the participation of the BFEE in LIHOP.

Why wasn't the fearless commander-in-chief on the phone with NORAD as soon as the first plane strayed? Ordering war planes into the air to intercept those planes?

Hello? Anybody home?

[jokerman93]

72. Remember the 87 Billion Congressional Payout?

Remember the 87 Billion Congressional Payout? I distinctly remember someone from the Congressional Black Caucus expressing outrage over language related to establishing domestic martial law with allocations of money being slipped into that bill.

The 87 Billion was supposed to be to "support the troops". Yep.

I have never found anyone who knew specifically what that language in the bill was, but I believe it would be rather revealing -- at least suggestive of any malice of fore-thought.

Anyone know anything about it? Can anyone find out?

[tom_paine]

88. And Jokerman, some of that money found it's way to Miami where it funded

a Police Riot (some might say Miami ushered in Imperial Amerika's Future)

www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/11/280.shtml

www.newsreview.com/issues/reno/2003-11-13/fray.asp

www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1104-03.htm

[mopaul]

80. Ridicule is a powerful tool...

i remember when kennedy was murdered, it was years before anyone dared to suggest it may have been an inside job. even today, those who suggest it was a vast conspiracy by our own government are ridiculed. the nazis used ridicule to instantly shoot down any arguement. whenever anyone has the audacity to suggest 9-11 may have been deliberately orchestrated by our own government, 50 people will instantly call you a conspiracy theory nut, and they will suffer no other ideas of yours. no one can believe that u.s. citizens would be so evil as to do that, to murder thousands of people to gain power.

normally, i'd agree, but we are talking about the most evil and corrupt administration in history. not only would i not put it past them, i strongly believe they actually set the whole thing up, and WILL DO SO AGAIN SOON. it worked out so well the first time, how could they resist? men CAN be that evil.

so when someone suggests crazy theories like a conspiracy to kill kennedy.......hmmm...it's not that crazy when you think about it.
but who wants to be ridiculed and thought of as a fool....?
certainly not i.

[mopaul]

81. remember this photo?

it was 12 or 15 years before anyone even realized that this famous life magazine cover was a cheap photo-re-touch fake.

[ComerPerro]

89. ?????????

What's up!!!!

How have you been?

[RBHam]

91. Remember this one, mo?

I still have it up on my 9-11 links site as the section header.



Kind of still sums up the situation, eh?

[latebloomer]

95. Welcome back, mopaul!

We missed you very much!!

[Wapsie B]

99. I think there may be

a foiled terrorist attempt in chimpy's future. He'll claim credit for stopping those godless terrorists and regain lost support. What else does he have to run on? All of this will have to be strategically planned to get the maximum bounce in the election cycle.