Life After The Oil Crash

[RBHam]

Reader,
Civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. This is not the wacky conclusion of a religious cult, but rather the result of diligent analysis sourced by hard data and the scientists who study global “Peak Oil” and related geo-political events.

So who are these nay-sayers who claim the sky is falling? Conspiracy fanatics? Apocalypse Bible prophesy readers? To the contrary, they are some of the most respected, highest paid geologists and experts in the world. And this is what's so scary.

The situation is so dire that even George W. Bush's Energy Adviser, Matthew Simmons, has acknowledged that "The situation is desperate. This is the world's biggest serious question."

According to Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham, "America faces a major energy supply crisis over the next two decades. The failure to meet this challenge will threaten our nation's economic prosperity, compromise our national security, and literally alter the way we lead our lives."

If you are like 99% of the people reading this letter, you have never heard of the term "Peak Oil". I had not heard the term until a few months ago. Since learning about Peak Oil, I have had my world view, and basic assumptions about my own individual future turned completely upside down.

A little about myself: A few months ago, I was a 25 year old law school graduate who found out he had just passed the California Bar Exam. I was excited about a potentially long and prosperous career in the legal profession, getting married, having kids, contributing to my community, and living the "American Dream."

Peak Oil has caused me to seriously question how realistic this vision of my life is.

Whether you're 25 or 75, an attorney or an auto mechanic, what you are about to read will shake the foundations of your life.

Below you find a brief explanation of Peak Oil, the ramifications, and what we can do about it. For the sake of simplicity, I have designed the following explanation for somebody unfamiliar with Peak Oil. If you would like more in depth explanations with graphs, charts, and the like, please consult the extensive interviews, articles and sites I have linked to throughout this site.

more...

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Home.html

[kalian]

1. I was going to post this yesterday but forgot....

this guy might sound like an "alarmist" but he sums up all the
information VERY well.
Remember folks, its not that we're going to run out of oil...that's
not it. We're going to RUN OUT OF CHEAP OIL.
Scary scenario.

[Stoker]

10. And I can't wait for it to happen!

"We're going to RUN OUT OF CHEAP OIL."

And I can't wait! Expense is the only thing that will drive us onto another energy solution. When it's cheaper to power things with hydrogen, wind, solar, you name it, than oil, then that is when it will happen.

There are PLENTY of alternative energy sources that could be put to use almost instantly.

It's all a matter of economic incentive.

Yes, the days of cheap oil will go, and we will be better for it.

Stoker

[Solon]

11. A little optimistic aren't you?

While I agree with the basic premise of your arguement, we cannot implement these things instantly. That is impossible, we need to revamp our infrastructure to implement said changes. That takes time, and we are running out. Maybe the human race needs a kick in the face, but are you ready for mass starvation, disruption in travel, skyrocketing grocery prices, the shortage in plastics, basic building materials, and other neccessities of civilization? We cannot avoid these, even on the most optimistic timescale, and it looks like that scale is wrong. There is no replacement for oil, it gives us more bang per weight than any energy source we have ever known. That is the key, not the energy production itself but the portability of it, how are we going to power planes? With electric motors, or diesel engines?

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. There's no reason to suspect there's a 'cliff' awaiting us

in oil availability, or price; just gradually increasing prices, as people decide their priorities, and find appropriate alternatives. Yes, this means SUVs will become dinosaurs, and their resale values fall, but that's no big deal. Cities will be under pressure to improve public transport; sprawling suburbs will be less attractive.

Air travel may become much more expensive; but it's not actually a vital part of our civilisation. No one important relies on it for their job; what are the vital commodities that have to get there at once, rather than take a few days by ship or rail? None.

[kalian]

15. Re-read the article....

and then re-think what you just wrote. It won't be that "gradual"
nor will alternative energies make the difference.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. I really can't see what causes the cliff

And the whole point about Hubbert and Peak Oil is that it's a bell curve, ie a gradual decline in availability.

The article also claims that world population will shrink to 500 million. In fact, the referenced article has just one prediction, which admits it's not a formal model, which is population reducing to 3.2 billion by 2090. That's why I think the article is panicing unnecessarily.

[Brian Sweat]

24. It's called a feed back loop.

As soon as the supply starts to become scarce, people will begin to hoard. Hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply. The increased pressure on the supply will cause more hoarding. More hoarding will put more pressure on the supply.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Nice, but do you have an argument

based on reality? Or, failing that, economics? Do you really think that everyone would hoard oil rather than sell it at a profit? Why this change in human behaviour from all of history?

[Brian Sweat]

42. Hoarding is a natural human reaction and occurs every time there is

a shortage of a critical resource. I am just old enough to remember people hoarding gasoline back in the seventies.

[kalian]

46. I have, I think, a valid arguement....

Technically, we're have already entered the first phase of peak oil,
which is the gradual increase of oil prices.
Now, what will this give way too, one might ask. Simple...increased
prices across the board.

Think about this... Our ENTIRE capitalist/industrial society lives
off oil...virtually EVERYTHING that you and I take for granted comes
from oil or is produced with the energy derived from oil. Then, once
it has been produced, its transported by vehicles that run off oil
based gasoline/diesel.

The bottomline is: prices as a whole will increase to such levels that
you nor I will be able to purchase the final products. Companies
will then be unable to continue producing these products either
and not because of lack of demand (for there still will be a high
demand for just about everything) but because they won't be able to
pay their overhead.

Then...we get to phase 2, which, I presume would be social unrest,
riots and hoarding.
Remember that people will be losing their jobs because companies will
be laying off tons of people. Companies will be folding. Products
will start disappearing as a whole, etc, etc. Our "known" society will
start to disintegrate...slowly, but eventually it will pick up pace.

Also remember, that while this is going on at home, the perpetual
"war on terror"...ooops....oil grab will continue. Men and women will
be drafted to fight overseas to control the dwindling supplies of
oil.

This will not be "gradual" just because its a bell curve. As this
curve goes down, I predict that social problems will ACCELERATE
and get worse by the year. Its not going to be a "soft landing"
either and alternative energy sources won't be the cure all that
people think them to be...only a select few will be able to engage
in such activities and they will be hounded by the hungry and
freezing masses.

The reality is: oil is a FINITE resource. It will eventually run out
but before that happens...it will become too expensive to extract.

...

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. I think alternatives will kick in

because there is time for people to plan to use them. The world's ability to pump oil is still high - those that make the decision to (OPEC, oil companies) may hold back a bit to increase prices, but they still need to keep paying for all the equipment they've got. As the price increases, alternatives, including nuclear fission, look attractive. I know many here will be against more radioactive waste, but I think faced with a fuel cell transport system, ultimately fuelled by fission, or depression and/or social unrest, most people, and certainly politicians, are going to go the fission route, again.

I'm not saying that things won't change; but if we're half way through the oil now, then we've got at least 50 years to set up a new system, and there's movement already. Wind power is feasible now, for some electrical needs; solar power is becoming steadily more feasible.

The last uses of oil will be those with the worst alternatives. In transport, this is aviation (maybe someone can design a safe hydrogen burning engine and fuel tank, but there isn't one yet; but if they do, it could be more efficient than jet fuel is now, weight for weight); chemical uses are difficult to replace now, but there's work going on there too.

[sybylla]

29. The economic implications come into play suddenly

because oil and petroleum products are traded as a commodity. Their price isn't set based on cost of retrieval and production but on availabllity alone (supply and demand).

Think about what happens every Memorial Day and 4th of July - the price of gasoline spikes. It spikes because there is a sudden demand greater than the supply. Same thing happens every fall with home heating oil, LP and natural gas (not a petroleum product but found with oil deposits, as I understand it). Now imagine this on a greater scale.

When the world begins to become aware that we are on the down hill side of the oil supply, prices will spike to unbelievable levels and never come down until we have workable alternatives. Imagine what would happen to the economy if everyone had to suddenly start paying a great deal more for fuel for their cars, suvs, lawn mowers and homes, & if governments', schools' and business' cost of operations skyrocket because of severe jumps in petroleum product prices. I don't think it's possible to save enough money for that kind of rainy day.

[Terran]

19. wrong wrong wrong

Even if we had the political will and the technology to make a complete switch-over to a new energy source, do you have any idea how long it would take to retool our entire industrial and, maybe more importantly, our agricultural infrastructure? Years. And in the meantime, with the oil already run out, governments will be too busy scrambling to steal each others oil supplies to do what it takes to accomplish such a change. And of course, here in the US, it will all be left up to private interests, so all but the rich will be left behind, initially.

This spells something bordering on anarchy for the average person. It is in no way a good scenario.

[Silverhair]

28. Are you aware of Thermal Depolymerization?

Check it out: http://www.changingworldtech.com/

[Terran]

32. Yes, a little

although not that company. I think you miss what was perhaps my main point. Yes, there are many technologies out there now that can save our butts. I've read wind power could actually supply the world's needs by itself. The obstacles aren't technological, they're economic and political. What do you suppose the cost would be to build enough plants converting waste to fuel via thermal depolymerization to supply this country with energy, in ALL it's forms? It took decades to build the industrial infrastructure we have now. But we don't have decades to remake it again--things may start falling apart in just a few years.

There is also the matter of the will to do this. Do you actually think the currently vested interests will just go quietly? Do you think some governments won't see a potential benefit in going to war to get a hold of existing oil resources, instead of the more difficult choice of radically altering their energy infrastructure?

Technology is not the problem; politicians and consumers are the problem.

[Silverhair]

33. TDP plants will be very profitable.

Remember, the oil "bust" won't be sudden. As oil becomes more scare it's price will go up and the demand for TDP plants will also go up. TDP plants don't require high tech to build. It is just old fashioned plumbing technology. Pipes, valves, boilers, pressure tanks, etc. As they show greater profit, more will be built. The oil companies will be in the lead in building them, as it will mean money for them. They would much rather sink some money into a new TDP plant, (guaranteed to produce oil) than in an expensive offshore test well (that may not find any oil). Once the oil if produced by TDP, it then goes into the system as does petroleum. No difference, except that TDP oil is cleaner.

They can be built quickly too, once the first few plants are built and get the bugs worked out. And they will be cheaper than many current methods of disposing of waste. How much does a landfill cost to operate? The trash company would quickly consider contracting with TWC to build a TDP plant, sell the oil (making money), and save the cost of operating a landfill.

[kalian]

49. Sorry to burst your bubble....

but TDP won't cut it...and remember, it REQUIRES energy to run....
The article talks about TDP as well as other alternative energy
sources...its not a cure all...

[Silverhair]

53. Read the Discover magazine article.

It operates at 85% efficiency, which means that it only uses 15% of the energy input (which is ALL wasted otherwise)to run its own process.

So if you put in garbage that contains the energy of 100 barrels of oil, you get out the 100 barrels of oil, but it used 15 doing it.

The key to the whole thiong is that your input is GARBAGE, SEWAGE, TOXIC WASTES, ETC. So if you don't TDP the garbage, what ARE you going to do with the garbage?

[BeHereNow]

2. I sent this out to friends last night-

They were all very upset after reading it.
It is a disturbing picture, but one that we had better come around
to considering.
BHN

[Solon]

3. With the story about OPEC cutting production...

And NG peaking in the states and indonesia, these are all symptoms of a major problem. Three dollars per gallon gas is definately possible by the summer. But the major point is that the price will never decrease from here on out, only increase. It seems that more evidence is pointing to the fact that oil production has peaked around the year 2000. We are in for a rough ride.

[kalian]

5. That's the FIRST phase of peak oil....

increased gasoline and energy prices in general. From there...its
all downhill...

[JackRiddler]

4. A great site.

Notwithstanding that Cassandra was always right:

This is a challenge that humanity can solve.

Starting today, within 20 years we could cut energy consumption in half, shift much of the rest to other energy sources, quadruple the time we have to develop or discover longer term solutions, and actually improve the lives of the majority in the process, while maintain the present population.

Unfortunately, the only obstacle is insurmountable: mindset.

[kalian]

6. The mindset is only here in the United States....

and Americans aren't about to give up their heated homes, gas
guzzling SUVs or any other little "perk". Just not going to happen.
Perpetual war, brought to you by oil tycoons, is here to stay.

[JackRiddler]

20. No, are you kidding?

The values of "growth" (industrialism as cancer), automobilism, consumerism, the definition of "wealth" as things, the idealization and mythology of private ownership, the magical faith in the market, the measuring of people by their productivity and hours worked, the meat-rich, high-calorie calorie diet, the defense fetish, nationalism, power hierarchies... all these are seen near universally as goods and most people see them as solutions, not interrelated causes of the problems. The Chinese attitude is very much, "to get rich is glorious," they have completely bought the Western mindset (and given their circumstances regard the Western/left critique of growth as a form of condescension that tells them to stay poor). Ditto emerging Eastern Europe, East Asia. The material wake-up call won't work, by then it will be too late. We need a universal and radical change in the mentality during the period remaining in which there is still plenty of easy energy for the transition.

[JackRiddler]

22. As for Americans...

& their goddamn heated homes: the efficiency of those could be doubled across the board in the course of normal renovation.

& their goddamn SUVs: well, yeah, they gotta give those up. Oh, well, deal breaker, let's go genocidal dark ages (a.k.a. Project for a New American Century).

The cities could be restructured for rational, efficient transport - the wars & arms buildups ended - the factories made efficient - useless production ended - meat & processed food consumption cut (huge energy savings) - useless work ended - with nothing lost - a worthy life gained!

Except our mythologies, our mindsets, the boundaries that define us against others.

Add wind, solar, tidal, biomass (from waste) - it all chips away a little, it adds time.

Stabilize population.

Use the time to to develop a credible alternative (hydrogen needs much more development to be in any way viable).

There is so much time! & so little will.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. But what to do about China?

The US guzzles the most, but China's coming on strong. The rest of the developing world, too. Demand is not a constant; it's increasing at a staggering rate, even as supply dwindles.

[brokensymmetry]

7. Kick!

Important information.

[kalian]

8. I'll kick it all night as well....

well..not ALL night. :D

[Robbien]

9. Read a story a couple of weeks ago

which said that Peak Oil has already happened. It had some comparative time graphs of oil production in South America and the MidEast. Wish I would have bookmarked the story, but basically it said the extraction from the pools of oil are on the downside of the peak right now.

Scary.

[gold_bug]

50. some say peak was a few years ago

others say it will come in about 5 - 10 years. Most free-marketeers and conservatives seem to believe it's more like 40 years away. I'm not sure who to believe (I just started learning about peak oil recently). There's a brand new book by a physicist, David Goodstein, called "Out of Gas". It looks really interesting, I think I'm going to get it this weekend.

Another one on this subject is, Richard Heinberg, The Party's Over. See this website:
http://www.museletter.com/partys-over.html

The more I learn about this stuff and the more I think about the possibilities and all the implications, the more disturbing it becomes to me.

[KayLaw]

13. Interesting

I've just become interested in this issue and have done searches on survivalism and self-reliance. I asked on another board but got no response - are there any left-leaning or middle-of-the-road survival or self-reliance sites?

[kalian]

14. Not really....

most are right-winger, rapture-ready groups that you don't want
to have anything to do with in the first place. ;)

[Lars39]

16. It's been a while since I've looked at them, but the Foxfire series

has a lot of "lost" knowledge on self-reliance. There's about 10 books in the series, I think.

[Serenity-NOW]

30. http://www.ecovillage.org/ n/t

[Nevernose]

21. Mel Gibson will save us, in the last of the V8 Interceptors!

n/t

[Jose Diablo]

23. It 's going to be a uphill slog

But we can get through this. The oil peak is reality. We must plan for the eventual oil exhaust.

I suggest we undertake a project to implement renewable energy sources. This project would be massive in scale. It would be above the scale of the Hoover Dam/Golden Gate Bridge. Truly massive, something mankind has never done before. Something that could be seen from space.

We have another problem. It is the transfer of resources from the younger generation to the previous generation, called social security. The problem is we cannot have growth in population indefinitely. The social security plan depends on more people working than retired. This ratio is changing.

Our Generation x'ers are questioning why they should give an ever larger percentage of their earnings to support their parents. This is a valid concern.

My generation (I am a boomer) have supported our parents. I also see wrong in expecting my children to support me. What can be done?

To transfer to some system that works for the generation x'ers and the boomers seems like a solution. However there is a danger in investing earnings in something like a stock market. The market can be manipulated. It would be foolish to "stake the sheep" in some kind of system that can be pumped and dumped. You can be sure the financial predators would love to see the generation x'ers money nailed in system they could eat.

I suggest we solve 2 problems with 1 solution. We have a need to build renewable energy sources. We also have a need to solve the social security problem of a diminishing ratio of working versus retired.

Here is the deal. Lets build infrastructure to generate energy from renewable sources, large solar photovoltiac systems, using the revenue stream generated from those under 37 years of age going to social security taxes. They would have a share in the future profit stream from these large energy generating systems. For us boomers, we take the stream of those over 37 and maybe a little of the federal assets until we pass-on.

The amount of new jobs created, would be huge. The benefits, we get to keep our civilization.

How about it you generation x'ers? Are you up to the task?

[donsu]

25. kick

nt

[Silverhair]

27. Not hardly. Thermal Depolymerization could well change that.

Here is a link: http://www.changingworldtech.com/

It is a process that converts most trash, sewage, toxic wastes,and other agricultural waste into oil, in only a few hours. Costs about $15 per barrel of oil produced this was. First commercial plant went active in the last few weeks in Carthage, MO.

[Fleshdancer]

34. the article discusses thermal depolymerization

"Thermal depolymerization" which can transform many kinds of waste into oil, could help us raise our energy efficiency as we lose power due to oil depletion. While it could help us ameliorate the crash, it is not a true solution.

Like all other forms of alternative energy, we have run out of time to implement it before the crash. Currently, only one thermal depolymerization plant is operational. Thousands of such plants would need to come online before this technology would make even a small difference in our situation.

Furthermore, whatever comes out of the process must carry less useful energy than what went into the process, as required by the laws of thermodynamics. Finally, most of the waste input (such as plastics and tires) requires high grade oil to make in the first place.

The biggest problem with thermal depolymerization is that it is being advertised as a means to maintain business as usual. Such advertising promotes further consumption, provides us with a dangerously false sense of security, and encourages us to continue thinking that we don't need to make this issue a priority.

_________________________

it's interesting though that the article of the original post links to the company you cited.

[Silverhair]

40. Most of the input will be agricultural waste.

The current commerical plant is processing turkey guts. They can process sewage, toxic bio waste, household trash (Great savings on landfill there.)

[kalian]

47. Actually....think more on the lines of Soylent Green....

[JackRiddler]

35. No, excuse me for being dense...

But where does the "thermal" for the depolymerization come from?

The process requires heat, water and mechanical energy to convert waste into oil. Adding up ALL inputs, including transport of waste to plant and delivery of fuel to end user, what is the NET ENERGY produced by thermal depolymerization?

The site offers no clue of that, far as I can see.

Which leads me to suspect... as with ethanol, the production of which takes about 1.25 gallons of oil to produce the equivalent of one-gallon of oil oil ... that the net energy produced by TP is close to negative.

But disabuse me, please. I want things to work out well!

WAIT...

I went and googled it and there are varying claims but it appears the TP process, once provided with the waste input, indeed efficiently recycles that back into useful energy at a net energy gain.

POSITIVE: http://www.ericberlin.com/mt/archives/000591.html

HOWEVER, THE BIG NEGATIVE:

Similarly, the new technology of thermal depolymerization is not a legitimate alternative energy source. This process transforms carbon-based wastes back into hydrocarbon fuel. This technology is useful, and may help us on the downside of the Hubbert curve, but it will never replace fossil fuels. Why? Because the wastes were produced by the use of fossil fuels.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/052703_9_questions.html

Now argue against that... even if it efficiently recycles (i.e. the process itself produces fuel with more energy than the energy used to make the fuel), the necessary material input of TP is still the waste product of hydrocarbon use, i.e. this is NOT a new source of energy. It derives entirely from hydrocarbons.

A useful process, as it extends our time towards real solutions.

Enough for now, I'd like you to answer this, Silverhair.

[Silverhair]

38. It also process stuff that was not petroleum in the beginning.

It will process sewage, grass, turkey guts (That's what the plant in Carthage, MO is processing), household garbage (The solid stuff that won't process just goes to the bottom of the tank.)and lots of other waste.

How much do we spend on landfills? Most of the stuff that goes into a landfill can be processed by a TDP plant.

An article in Discover magazine estimated that the agricultural waste in the USA alone would be enough to completely replace all of our imported oil.

Add to that the other types of alternative energy and some price induced conservation, (SUVs will become unpopular due to higher gas prices.)and we will be OK.

There are other things that I am very concerned about, but peak oil has been solved.

[AG78]

41. I wish I had that optimism

About peak oil being solved. I'm no historian, but if I've learned anything from history, it's that nothing ever gets "solved", it just seems to change into another problem.

If this TDP does solve the problem, and everyone on the planet can waste all they want, only to have it be recycled in a continuous loop, that would be terrific. I'm all for it. I hope that happens.

Like you said, there are so many issues to be concerned about, nobody needs this problem on top of everything else.

[Silverhair]

43. I'm optimistic about this problem only.

There are others that I am horribly pessimistic about. Global population exceeding the carrying capacity of the globe, drug resistant bacteria, the Western/Islam clash (Been going on for centuries and getting worse.), increasing loss of privacy due to increasing ease of gathering information making a new type of police state possible, the ability of any new disease to rapidly spread throughout humanity, and I can go on.

[dpibel]

45. Hidden inputs

American agriculture is hugely dependent on oil. Oil runs the equipment, oil provides the nitrate fertilizers, oil moves the product from farm to store (or TD plant). As others have pointed out, the oil-rich parts of landfill trash (e.g. tires) are petroleum products. In order to determine whether TD is a solution or a self-consuming spiral, you have to factor in those inputs as well.

The biggest problem remains the energy cost to energy product ratio. Petroleum is so energy-dense it's going to be extremely difficult to find anything that beats it, or even comes close, in those terms. The energy cost of extracting oil is tiny compared to the energy produced by the oil.

It would be lovely if TD were the magic bullet. I think the reality is that, while it may produce more energy than its inputs, it will eventually (and fairly quickly) end up victim to diminishing returns.

[Silverhair]

54. So, what are you doing with the garbage,

sewage, etc NOW????? The Discover magazine article states that the current acrigultural WASTE in the USA would be enough replace ALL of our imported oil. And remember, that waste has to be disposed of currently at considerable costs.

Further, it would not be difficult to put unfertilized plants into the TDP process. We use fertilizer to grow the plants that we want to, but the process isn't picky about what plants are put in. So a farmer wanting a crop for TDP would simply choose the plants that thrive in the natural settings.

TDP is really solar energy, using plants as the primary storage medium, then processing them into oil.

[AG78]

36. When and if

this becomes the solution to the problem, great, and more power to any person/people/company far smarter than me that can come up with an answer. Until then, we still have a problem.

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[Fleshdancer]

37. we should set up a special DU villiage out in Montana or somewhere

when the shit hits the fan. Then again, I'm not exactly sure how we would drive there...hmm...gotta figure this one out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Get ready now

If you happen to be moving, move to an area that is within walking or biking distance of stores and services and/or on a transit/bus line.

The oil may not run out in our lifetimes, but it WILL become more expensive.

Those McMansions springing up in outer urban cornfields around the country will be white elephants in twenty or thirty years.

To those of you who say, "I can't afford a house closer in," factor in the expense of owning a second or third car and commuting miles and miles each day and then do the math again.

[kalian]

48. Build Earthships and....

convert turbo diesel cars to run off veggie oil (biodiesel)....

[JCMach1]

44. Price AND Production are going to continue to rise

KSA, UAE and Qatar are all increasing production. The UAE alone will nearly double production in the next 10 years.

Having said that, the pressure is also on the demand side... especially with China as a major new market.

Today's OPEC production cut was about 2 things... Iraq production coming online MORE and the weak dollar.

OPEC is hedging that the dollar will continue to weaken...

If they don't raise prices this directly affects government revenue.

[2004Donkeys]

51. Oil has peaked or will peak in a year or 2

And we will have to find alternative energy sources soon.