What existing country should America most strive to be like?

[anti-NAFTA]

Anyone who's traveled or studied knows that America is not the greatest place on Earth. The question here is: What country should serve as the model for our country?

I would have to say France. There is enough socialism to prevent the destitution seen in countries like the US, but not enough to render life as dull as, say, Sweden. There is also a strong national identity in France that you don't see in our consumeristic country here. Sure, Americans buy their made in China American flags; but there's really no national culture aside from Britney Spears and Eminem. France takes pride in its history without exploiting it. The seven year presidential term would also do well in America, eliminating reliances on the political business cycle and forcing presidents to look at the long term effects of their decisions. And I love the 14 Juillet military parades in Paris. I can't understand why we don't have a 4th of July celebration like that in America, instead of Pepsi-sponsored, consumer-culture trash.

You?

[brainshrub]

1. Canada

They are polite, well educated, multilingual, socialy aware, and have universal healthcare. The Canadians are the best neighbors in the world. (The second-best neighbors in the world are the Mexicans.)

[terrya]

2. Canada.

My friends up North have the right idea. They believe in diplomacy instead of guns. Talk first instead of action right off the bat.

They have health care...they consider it an imperative. We don't seem to be able to understand that access to health care, in a country as wealthy as ours, is a basic right.

Canada is many times more progressive than we are...especially in terms of gay people.

Canada is a good role model for the United States to emulate.

Terry

[Granite]

5. Agreed

Its really amazing that two countries which are so close and have so much in common are so far apart politically. I would like to see the US move more towards a Canadian model of progressivism with respect to issues of tolerance and social justice.

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. Diplomacy instead of guns

Is a requirement when you are not a superpower. For all those who complain about America's use of power now, they were quite eager to have U.S. forces head to Eastern Europe or Iraq the first time or a host of other places in distress.

[wuushew]

69. Can you define what you mean by superpower?

the EU has a larger population and economy than the US.

Russia and China impressive both in land area and population spend less on defense than we do. I believe defensemania is a uniquely American institution.

[Muddleoftheroad]

78. Superpower

More powerful than the other nations. The U.S. has a combined economic, military and political power that is unrivaled.

[waylon]

3. huh?

"Anyone who's traveled or studied knows that America is not the greatest place on Earth. The question here is: What country should serve as the model for our country?"

Ive traveled alot! College educated! I dont agree!

[brainshrub]

13. I second that!

I'm not a jingoist, but I think we are the greatest place on earth.

[Touchdown]

16. The Greatest Place on Earth is Disneyland.

They have it copyrighted. You don't want to be reported to the Mickey Squad, do you?:evilgrin:

[brainshrub]

21. snicker.

That was funny because you are right-on.

[Llewlladdwr]

89. Ummm, no.

Disneyland is the HAPPIEST place on Earth. Not the greatest.

[KG]

4. america would be a great place

if it really truly aspired to be all the great things that it tries to sell itself as to the rest of the world.

[Darth_Kitten]

52. Happy Valentine's Day, KG

from a litt'l kitten north of the border. ;) :evilgrin: :loveya: :hi:

[nedlogg]

6. Another vote for Canada

They're just like us except they mind their own business.

[Dover]

7. Ohhhhhh Caaaaanadaaaaaaa! Gloreous and free

Second choice would have to be Scotland. But I'd like to take characteristics from many.

I will say though, for ALL our flaws...this still is the best country to live in IF we can oust Bush and corporate greed.
I spoke to a woman from China the other day, (well traveled, educated woman) and she said as far as women's rights and freedoms go, the U.S. is best, though we were now going to have to fight the current dweebs in the WH to keep it that way.

[JitterbugPerfume]

8. America should strive to be

her dream of herself

[Pithlet]

84. Good answer.

It was what I thought America was, growing up. I thought we were the best place in the world, and all other countries wanted to be just like us. I thought that all those ideals that should make America great still existed. I thought working hard was enough, the way it should be.

I still think America is a great place to live for many. But I think we've lost a lot of those things, if we ever really had them. Too many people now are not living the American dream, and have little hope of ever doing so because the cards are stacked against them. Now, it doesn't matter how hard you work. Now, unless you are among the very wealthy, one bad turn of luck outside of your control, and you can find yourself barely holding on. Our freedoms are being chiseled away by a power hungry regime. I hope we can get it back someday.

[Ninga]

9. Italy

wonderful men, wonderful food, laid back, relaxed and when people need to be kept in line, the Mafia.

[Touchdown]

18. Italy? With unshaven legs?

Perish the thought!:wow:

I say The Netherlands...without the wooden shoes.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brucey]

12. Some U.S. rankings:

37th in health care, 31st in freedom of the press, and 19th in life expectancy. You have been to the wrong places. Additionally, I have friends who prefer small, backward South American countries because they can escape the plastic, corporate, right-wing, advertising, puritanical bullshit of the U.S. and like living without air conditioning and other luxuries that only weaken the enjoyment of being alive and relating to others. The U.S. is mostly a hillbilly Las Vegas.

[Baclava]

20. The wrong places?

Yeah - it's called living in the real world. It's true there's some culture shock coming home to a country with all these incredibly spoiled people who have no idea how lucky they are.

Everyone should have to experience a "third world country" just once, maybe it'll pull their heads out long enough to appreciate what they have.

[glarius]

23. "Canada,...3 cities and beer is hardly civilization?"

That's rather dismissive don't you think?.....What 3 cities have you decided are our 3 cities, pray tell?.....And how can you forget our back bacon, igloos, and toothless hockey players?.....

[Baclava]

29. I have no quarrels with The Great White North...

Hey...I even rooted for Canada's hockey team in the Olympics...
(because of Mario - of course)

[glarius]

32. Ooooh Gee....thanks

nt

[K8-EEE]

49. Three Cities And BEER?

No way! I took a train trip from Toronto to Quebec City and Montreal...beautiful country and nice folks. Too damn cold though!

Honestly -- I'm a Los Angeles native and here I will stay!

[glarius]

50. It's not cold in the SUMMER!.....

Our winters are cold and your summers in Georgia, Texas, Forida and all the southern states are UNBEARABLY hot!....We all have our crosses to bear!...:)

[Brucey]

11. The Scandinavian countries are by far the best.

Denmark, Sweden, and Norway paticularly, are ideal places to live and enjoy food, freedom, education, information, and a high standard of living.

[cryofan]

91. Yes, the Scandanavian welfare states ARE the best countries

heck, the women there are made so secure by the welfare state they feel no need to marry the fathers of their babies. Marriage rates there are half of they used to be.

I think this is a great thing! Remember all those old science fiction stories where your every need is taken care of by the state? Well, Scandanavia is a lot closer to that than anywhere else in the world.....

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. France?

Perhaps we can force secularization on all of our religious minorities just like them...

[anti-NAFTA]

25. Hahahaha. This is what FAUX wants you to think.

It forces secularization on ALL religions, not just minorities. Public institutions should be secular. Your argument is straight of the O'Reilly book of fallacies.

And you have to understand the religious friction going on in France between the Jews, Muslims, and others. More Muslim women support the ban on religious displays in school than oppose. As for the totality of Muslims, it's 50-50. Chirac does something in defense of feminism (most Muslim children are forced to wear this against their will and many are raped if they don't) and in defense of secular republican values, and what does the bullshit American media do? They spin it around to make it look like Chirac is Hitler. The Socialist Party is also overwhelmingly supportive of the ban.

Nice try though.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. Not a nice try, a fact

The new law of course impacts minorities worse. You know, those pesky people like Muslims and Jews and even some Christians who refuse to accept that being "French" is more important their religion.

Ultimately, it is a good example of tyranny of the majority.

Parents are allowed to force their children to wear whatever they like.

And your rape comment is just, well it's just bizarre.

[anti-NAFTA]

28. Of course it affects minorities more

because France has long since progressed from the Catholic fanaticism of the late 19th century where men like Captain Dreyfus were persecuted for their religion. French gentiles are pretty much all secular, with the exception of some fanatical scum here and there.

I am Jewish, and I think you should refrain from commenting about what's good for my people as you obvbiously have no idea what life is like for the Parisian Jews who live in great proximity to Arabs and share the same schools. You cannot deny that letting children go to schools in hijabs and yarmulkes promotes hatred on both sides.

And my rape comment is not bizarre. Maybe you should just read up on how Muslim males rape teenage girls who dress secularly and then say they deserved it. This shit is intolerable in the FRENCH REPUBLIC.

"Tyranny of the majority"? Isn't that what John Adams said when the French people finally made Louis XVI finally pay for his atrocities?

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. Yes I can and will deny it

Letting children go to schools in hijabs and yarmulkes promotes freedom of religion and until everybody accepts everybody else and their beliefs we will have no peace.

Rapes happen in every culture. You make it sound like it is a commonplace event. Rape is intolerable not just in France, but everywhere.

Tyranny of majority is when the bulk of people don't mind taking away the rights of those who are different and forcing them to fit in.

[anti-NAFTA]

40. LOL

Advocacy of union of church and state under the guise of freedom of religion is exactly what the right is doing in this country. Maybe you have something against the French as a culture. I don't think I'll continue this debate because your biases are preventing you from thinking clearly and rationally.

And since you don't have any firsthand experience in this subject and go only by what AOL Time Warner and News Corp. feed you, I strongly advise to not make value judgments on situations of minorities in other countries, groups of which you are not a part. It's extremely arrogant and is exactly what too many Americans are doing with regard to Iraq.

[Intelsucks]

44. At least 12,000 people don't die here because it gets a little hot outside

Or was that more AOL Time/Warner propaganda. Yes, we're having to endure another repuke in the White House, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Kellanved]

80. pardon?

Remember the 1995 Chicago heatwave?
Not that I disagree with the second half of your post, but using the heatwave is beyond ridiculous.
:hi:

[Muddleoftheroad]

96. I think the difference is

What happened in 1935 is 70 years ago. Lots of things happened in the past. If it kept happening then that would be a good point, but it hasn't. What happens in the present is applicable here.

[Kellanved]

98. it was 8 1/2 years ago

So I don't see your point.

http://static.elibrary.com/w/weatherwise/february121996/tragedyinchicago1995heatwaveweatherof1995/

[Muddleoftheroad]

99. Let's see

The U.S., a nation of 280 million, lost 700 and France a nation of 60 million lost how many?

[Kellanved]

100. one city of two million lost 740

And that in five days, not several weeks.

[Muddleoftheroad]

51. I have this thing for freedom

France in the past has had the same concept. Clearly, they have given up on it.

I don't advocate a union of church and state. Nor do I advocate the dominance of one over the other as France now does.

[smirkymonkey]

67. What about "Freedom from Religion"....

France's predominately secular society don't want to see religion creep into their cherished institutions like it has here. They see the danger.

It should be across the board though, not singling out any particular religious group.

[anti-NAFTA]

75. It IS across the board.

Crucifixes, hijabs, yarmulkes, are all banned in public schools. I'm glad SOMEone here believes in secularism in state institutions.

[Muddleoftheroad]

79. The institution itself should be secular

The people in it should be allowed their own beliefs. This denies such beliefs.

[smirkymonkey]

90. I thought so, but wondering why the press

was focusing so heavily on the muslim population.

This merging of fundamentalist faith and state has got to stop. It will be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

[anti-NAFTA]

94. Because the press hates France.

One moment it's saying the situation for Jews in France is like 1930s Germany; the next it's saying the France persecutes Arabs. I wonder why the media is doing this? Could it be because France refuses to be America's yes-man? Hmmmmmmm.

[Muddleoftheroad]

97. Or could it be

That France has some serious issues when dealing with people who stand out a bit?

[Nobody]

15. But we're already trying to emulate

Pick a third world country. Any third world country. Bush the Banana Republican won't be happy until he and his buddies are the only ones with homes, clothing that aren't patched, and enough food to eat.

[Intelsucks]

19. Sorry, but I disagree with your entire post.

I've been all over Europe, and I kissed the ground when I got back here to the U.S. Europe was very nice, but I had no desire to stay, or any longing to live there.

I like big, open, spaces, and Europe just doesn't deliver in that dept.

[smirkymonkey]

70. I have been all over Europe as well, and

have even lived there for a period...I loved it - I felt like it was an oasis of sanity compared to this country and life seemed more leisurely and purposeful.

I guess it's a matter of opinion.

[jamesinca]

22. I think Canada for one reason

they are geographically close and we have become similar as nations in some respects, it would be an easier change compared to other countries. It would not be a bad choice either.

On the other hand France. For one reason that leaps to mind, it would piss George Bush off untill the day he died and then a few after that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Scandanavian coutrnies, Canada.. will need election reform

as well as policy reforms to pull that off.

[anti-NAFTA]

26. Yes, we will.

But our politicians would never have that.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[swinney]

33. WHERE WE STAND? EXTENSIVE STUDY

Book--"Where We Stand"--

Bantam Books

By-Michael Wolff-- Peter Rutten--Albert F. Bayers III--

1992.

very very good.

NO--AMERICA DOES NOT RANK HIGH BY MANY MEASUREMENTS.

We do not have:

the healthiest economy
the smartest kids
the finest medical care
the hottest technologies
the largest paychecks
the largest homes
the best sex(what in heck is sex?)
the highest taxes

1,000 global rankings by terrific study.

[Intelsucks]

34. What's the point? Should any country be able to claim that they have

the absolute BEST of absolutely EVERYTHING? The only thing I have to say about the "why America sucks so bad, and how we should be like so-and-so" threads is get your passport, buy yourself a plane ticket, and SEE YA! Make a bee-line for that better place.

[alittlelark]

37. But we are told we have all these things.

We are told that we are the best of the best - that we can be all that we can be, with no barriers - that Horatio Algiers was right.

[donsu]

35. I wouldn't mind Cuba's Health Care

nt

[swinney]

36. anti-nafta Thanks very much

Great question.Thought provoking.

I prefer the nation of North Carolina. Red Neck and all.

Maybe the nation of one of my very favorite places--Milwaukee.
Love that nation. What food!! What friendliness!!

[dawn]

38. Great Britain.

Only because that's the only other country in which I've lived. They have a social safety net, civilised laws, and great beer. They also have a healthy respect for intellectuals and sarcasm. Their music scene and youth culture rocks.

OK, we are emulating colonial Britain now, but I mean modern Britain.

[earthman dave]

47. Don't worry, we'll be getting rid of that safety net soon enough.

Praise the Market!

[w4rma]

39. America. (n/t)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Canada or one of the Scandanivian countries.

I like Canada and would migrate there in a second if I could pull it off.

I say Scandanavia because of their socialism but I've never been. I have been to the UK and loved it, but between Thatcher and Blair it's gone downhill.

[thebigidea]

42. how dare you imply that America isn't perfect, splendid, wondrous?

The more insecure and jingoistic amongst us will crawl outta the woodwork and burst into inexplicable fits of nationalistic frenzy at the mere thought!

[terrya]

43. That "America - right or wrong" crap makes me angry, quite frankly.

So...if I lived in the 19th century, I was supposed to love America while slavery was taking place?

And I was supposed to be tickled as pink while we were virtually committing genocide on Native Americans?

Fuck that. There were times in this country when I would have been ashamed to be an American.

And that's just MY .02

Terry

[formernaderite]

64. And that was the 19th century....

...you can't go back into history and use 21st century notions of equality to understand the world. Slavery for example was still widely practised in many third world countries into the 20th century. Do you want to discuss womens rights? I was in Europe four years ago, and still saw job adverts in both England and Germany advertising office positions for "young women under 35 only, please". Although new EU regulations are making this sort of thing publicly unacceptable, I have friends who married and stayed in Europe who will tell you that job hiring discrimination for women over 40 is still rampant.

[JohnLocke]

45. America should strive to be like America.

[camero]

46. Another vote for Canada

The cultures are pretty much the same except Canada has a much better social safety net and to my surprise when I first visited the place, more freedom than here.

They have cleaner cities, just as many wide open spaces, and no real language Nazis (it's just what I call them) like in France. Sorry, the French cling much too closely to thier language and make others try to conform. That's not freedom.

[Redleg]

48. America should strive to live up to her potential.

What works in other countries may not necessarily work here.

On a related note, I can just imagine the wingers getting hold of this thread and showing Fox News viewers how anti-American we DUers are.

[belle]

62. Right. I think there are examples from various countries we can learn from

...but ultimately we are who we are. For me, it's not just a question of whether France is better or worse than the U.S.; it's just *different.* It has a different history, a different culture, a different context. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't change, just that we can't expect to be a copy of anyone else.

It's like, if you had a child with problems: do you say, "which neighborhood kid should s/he try to be most like?" Or do you try to help your child straighten out and realize his/her potential on his/her own terms?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

53. Canada.

.

[Dees]

54. France huh. You know I've never been to France

but my parents traveled there. My Dad said that the French were the rudest people on the face of the friggin planet. Mom and Dad didn't deserve that kind of treatment simply because they were Americans.
Two more decent, honest open minded people have never lived. I believe America should make every effort possible to become what it should have been a long time ago. We got sidetracked on the way to greatness. Guess I'll just stay here and try to help.

Take the Great American vacation out West sometime. Nothing like it in the world and take the Blue Highways.

[plaguepuppy]

55. Blame Canada

I spent some time hitch-hiking in France, and found the people in the south (we stayed outside of Aix) to be incredibly friendly and hospitable. We were looking for a place to stay that had been given us by my girlfriend's sister's college roommate, whose father had rented a place in the countryside. It turned out to be missing a roof, but the couple next door took us in and fed us for several days. They ran a kind of bed and breakfast, but didn't have anybody there at the moment they took us in, and never asked for money.

Canada - it's like the States, only nicer!

[glarius]

58. Did they go to Paris?...I think the people there are rude like in New York

Sometimes people in busy cities are unintentionally rude...They are so used to hurrying and scurrying that they don't realize how abrupt they can seem to outsiders...Other parts of France have warm and friendly people...

[Dees]

63. Oui mon frere, it was Paris.

[TahitiNut]

81. Bingo!

Living and working in France for nearly four months (and visiting there and Tahiti several times), I found the "rude French" story to be a myth. In the parts of Paris where American tourists cluster, there's an attitude engendered by Americans who think speaking more loudly compensates for not speaking French (of any kind) -- an attitude very much akin to a New York City attitude. (I also found that once I approached people individually and politely, that attitude was dropped and I was treated graciously.) In other parts of Paris and virtually anywhere in the rest of the country that I traveled (Beaujolais, Jura, Loire, Normandy, Bretaigne, Champagne, etc.) I found the French to be far more hospitable than equivalent places in the US. I found that one and only one thing was needed ... a sincere effort to speak some French. While clearly not as overtly helpful and gregarious as many I met in Germany or even (slightly) Switzerland, I found the French to be far more helpful and friendly to foreigners than Americans.

[Dees]

86. My parents were so unfriendly to foreigners we took in and

sponsored a Hungarian family after the revolt in 1957 for a year so that they could get on their feet.
My Dad, a true world traveler, had a good grasp of the French language after working in Saigon helping to establish an engineering program with Saigon University. He learned basic French in six weeks. I am going to take his word on this matter in so much as there were multiple offenses and of a similar nature. I guess they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[anti-NAFTA]

59. Oh the old "They're rude" fallacy

Because one man is rude then the whole nation is rude. What if I say Americans are rude for insulting my mother because she looks Middle Eastern and has a French accent during the jingoistic freedom fry frenzy?? I would never say that because I know half of my country here is civilized.

[Intelsucks]

60. I have been to France, and your folks are 100% correct

I found them to be rude and very snotty. I've been there once, and only once. Never again.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

92. I lived in France-I never had any problem

Maybe your parents didn't make an effort to be polite? A "merci" and "s'il vous plait" works wonders. Paris is fast-paced like any big city, and people can be gruff. The people in the provinces are very friendly.

You paint a nationality with a broad brush and you've NEVEREVEN BEEN TO THE COUNTRY YOURSELF! Jeez! :eyes:

[sweetheart]

56. Switzerland

With good governance, america could offer a very high standard of living to every single american, AND be a chic, upstanding and wise nation. Switzerland is both unilaterally separate, and yet central to global multilateralism.

[anti-NAFTA]

61. Switzerland is ultracapitalist

Surprising to see a Democrat look to Switzerland as a model. It's nearly Libertarian.

To each his own.

[sweetheart]

66. You've got to go there again

It struck me as very socialist indeed in my interactions with swiss. It has a strong multiculturalism that crosses over language and culture to create a unified but highly plural society, much much more plural than american monoculture. The've legallized cannabis now, and are moving towards very progressive methods in much respects.

Switzerland is whe worlds wealthiest nation, GDP per capital, more so than the US. This would not hurt americans one bit to be wealthier even more so. The grass roots democracy in switzerland and its outstanding military diplomatic wisdom have kept the society protected and wealthy for several hundred years longer than america has even existed.

I'm surpised you're so anti swiss. I can't help notice that it has strong socialism, oustanding business success and a stunning environment, military stability... what's the libertarian horror you imply?

[anti-NAFTA]

73. I never said it was a libertarian horror

I said it was run in a libertarian manner. It is not socialist at all. The tax rates are among the lowest in Europe.

I'm not anti-Swiss. I just find it surprising that a Democrat could admire an ultracapitalist country.

[cryofan]

88. nope. SW has much stronger welfare state than the USA

You may mean that it is SOCIALLY Libertarian. Not the same thing....

[anti-NAFTA]

95. Not really.

It may be stronger than the US, but it's much weaker than France's or Germany's. The marginal income tax rates are pretty much the same as the US. It's pretty much 100% libertarian.

[jsw_81]

57. France or Canada

[slinkerwink]

65. definitely Canada

[MrSlayer]

68. Amsterdam

For reasons that should be obvious.

[mac2]

71. If not America....the old one twenty years ago?

If I can't have America as it was twenty years ago? We lose this next election...and Bush stays in power....and they come after more citizens, etc.?

You have to realize this is a world wide grab for power by the Neo Cons to set up their World Union (called Order in the past). They have divided up the world (head of the World Bank...and corporate CEOs).

The World Banks finance both sides of war. All they care about is profit.

Canada, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, etc are all under pressure taking away rights, WTO-World Union plans, etc. The British thing with Blair and the Queen. They're all previously Democratic and English speaking(like us).

I would go to Sweden. Sweden is being pressured to join the EU so I don't know how long it will last as a Socialistic country. One of their very vocal politicians, who spoke out against the WTO and EU Union, was murdered in daylight.

Sweden gave sanctuary to those who fled the FBI and CIA after 9/11. They knew too much.

I would emulate Sweden. Sweden has the highest standard of living without war.

Right now, we should try to be like the old American of pre-Reagan with new vision in the 21st Century toward human rights, care of the needy, peace, and respect for other countries and their ciitzens. Our foreign policy has been amiss for many years in S. America, etc.

Yes...a little of the old (prior to 1980) and some new visions.

4th of July Parades with marching bands and Vets is great. No to modern military might parades like old Russia. My favorite parade in American right now is the Rose Parade..on H>V (no commercials). We can do this!!

[kcwayne]

72. Like the America envisioned in the Constitution

but never implemented in its 225 year history.

[mac2]

76. Constitution and Bill of Rights implemented and law of the land

Right you are.

Everyone should have the same rights.

Our government has abused the Constitution over the years...especially in times of war. the powers were abused and the courts refuse to back them up.

The Bill of Rights were written to protect the citizens from their own government who had so much power and wealth.

As a Democracy we have a way to go. I had hoped this next century would be it. When Bush came to power...it took us back pre-revolution.

[thermodynamic]

74. 7 years of Bush*, consider that...

That aside, you're spot on about America's "culture" - or, rather, the gross lack of it in favor of revolving-door pseudo-talent, buck-today-gone-tomorrow trash.

We also need to get worthy jobs back into this country and get rid of the retail crap, best suited to teens, that having two such jobs couldn't even begin to cover a family (yet alone the time parents need with their children).

And eliminate all dependence on foreign anything.

It's amusing how the world's sole 'superpower' relies on everybody else.

Imagine, for example: If India threw a tantrum and pissed off Pakistan, they'd retaliate with nukes. Forget the people, it's America's corporations who'd then suffer. :nopity: :eyes:

It's like building a house and then removing the interior support struts... and corporate america is doing just that.

It's amazing, looking at everything the Republicans support. They're two-faced at best... everything they stand for doesn't gel together... they support big business, tax breaks for the wealthy, shifting tax burdern onto the middle class, yet destroying the middle class, family values yet the other things they support leave no time for families to be together... REPUBLICANS ARE PURE, UNFETTERED EVIL that makes 9/11 look like a holiday by comparison. At least they're dead. Those living under the re-engineering the repukes are making are going to suffer big and badly.

We need to stop their shit NOW. We cannot let Bush* win or else it's curtains.

[Ediacara]

77. I really like America, there's a lot of good

But damned if the French fifth republic doesn't have the best constitution of any country on Earth bar none. I think ideally, a cross between France, the US as it is, Canada, Sweden, and Holland would be a great place I'd like to live.

[imax2268]

82. I say...

we should strive to be the country we once were before BushCo took office...

[2004Donkeys]

83. You think America is not the greatest place on earth yet you don't want...

to trade with the rest of the world?

Ironic, don't ya think?

[arewethereyet]

85. I disagree with the permise

I believe that America is the greatest place on Earth.

If it sucks so badly then why do so many people want to come here ?

[cryofan]

93. nice logic, there!

If America is not #1, then it must be dead last? Is it just possible that we are not #1 AND we are NOT dead last? YOu know there are a LOT of countries in this world....And SOME of them (about 20?) are definitely BETTER than America for MOST of their citizens. However, there are DOZENS of countries that are worse off.

[Flightful]

87. Icelandic Free State

200+ years of peace, would still exist if they didn't enact the Church Tithe Law.