If you're Gay...and you don't think we are in trouble....

[Andy_Stephenson]

Then you'd better wake up and smell the coffee fellas...We are next on the list for Gitmo...We all know the paralells this administration has when compared to the third reich. Well, they are following the plan to a t. I am quite fearful...bushco will steal the election via Black Box Voting next time. There is no doubt in my mind. If that happens...I am outta here! Canada looks better all the time. Wonder if there are some nice boys up there that want to get married?


on edit: Well maybe not gitmo...but someplace as bad if not worse. Remember we are all sinners and have "Logs" in our eyes.

[roughsatori]

1. I fear some DUers would post

That the Democratic Party would lose votes if we dared fight the sending of gays to internment camps.

Not to be picky, but you can edit subject lines now: "you are" is "you're" not "your."

[StopTheMorans]

2. I'm all for gay marriage

and Dem. candidates supporting it, but that was a pretty bold statement and I really think a little sensationalist IMHO.

[Andy_Stephenson]

6. May want to read this

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany

Homosexuals in Nazi Germany

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Prior to the Third Reich, Berlin was considered a liberal city, with many gay bars, nightclubs and cabarets. There were even many drag bars where tourists straight and gay would enjoy female impersonation acts. And there had been a fairly significant gay rights movement under Magnus Hirschfeld around the turn of the century.

German students parade outside the Institute for Sexual Research
prior to raiding the building
In some ways the Nazis seemed conflicted on the subject of homosexuality. Although there is some evidence that Hitler himself was gay <1>, Nazi ideology was that homosexuality was incompatible with National Socialism because homosexuals did not reproduce and perpetuate the Master race. But while the stereotype they propagated of homosexuals was incompatible with their image of the ideal Aryan, the Chief of Staff of the SA, Ernst Röhm was homosexual.

[StopTheMorans]

24. knew this already

but thanks:) seriously, as much as people compare the US today to the third reich (i am guilty of this myself), i don't think that this comparison is instructive in this situation. Not getting the right to marriage and sending a whole group of people to an internment camp are hardly the same thing.

[Andy_Stephenson]

38. No but you start by defining the enemy and

devalueing them...which is what Bush* (also homosexual) did.

[roughsatori]

7. I stand by it after reading posts from DU the last 2 days

regarding "equal rights" for gays being something we should not be so vocal about--or we will lose the South, etc.

As I wrote yesterday, if progressives had always thought that way we would still have slavery and women would not be voting today.

Then there is the issue of the Pope advocating gays civil rights being taken away--but if one attacks the Church, which he is a leader of---you are called a bigot.

[mopaul]

9. gay marriage BAD, raping children ACCEPTABLE

the pope's statement or decree or whatever you call it yesterday stated that gay marriage was an abomination. he also said that a gay couple cannot raise children in a moral frame, and that such unions could only be harmful to children. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK POPEY!
it's okay for crazy priests to rape little boys and girls, and get away with it, for thousands of years, but two women or two men raising kids? mother mary and joseph help us.

on the level of world shattering importance and grave matters of state, gays getting married doesn't even register. why are they so vehement against it? it's just a sign of sick thinking.

[dfong63]

18. be fair

it's okay for crazy priests to rape little boys and girls, and get away with it, for thousands of years, but two women or two men raising kids? mother mary and joseph help us.

be fair: the pope has also strongly condemned the molesting priests. while i feel that he should have taken stronger action, he certainly never condoned or excused their behavior, nor did he ever imply that it was OK for them to get away with it for thousands of years.

[nostamj]

25. telnaes

[Ediacara]

13. well

we don't have the south anyway...

[Adamocrat]

26. Those of us who live in the South...

Those of us who live in the South are working to change the attitudes of the people who disagree with gay rights. It's a slow, painful process, but...

It's scary, but sorta like G_B_C carrying his passport, we try to keep enough "fuck you money" and assets handy in case these scumbags pull a total coup and we have to flee the country. This evil regime is that closely mirroring the Third Reich, and I'm not taking chances.

-A

[Mairead]

32. There are a lot --or at least far too many-- at DU

whom I would feel completely comfortable publicly characterising as DINOs, if I were allowed to. To that group, winning is everything, and they will sell us all down the river without a moment's hesitation or regret, if they think it's to their advantage. Many, but not all, are quite immature, have grown up knowing nothing except right-wing domination, and think this is all some game for points. They have no sense of how serious it all is. They're pathetic, but dangerous.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. not to mention outright silly

there is absolutely nothing happening that remotely approaches such an evaluation of the situation. this post is fear mongering, plain and simple.

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. BFIW...

Watch the news lately...there is an increasing vilification of Gays in the Media....It is subtle...but there nonetheless.

I don't think this is fear mongering. Call me the canary in the mine.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. just who is gonna cart us to gitmo?

the pope? and i say we because no one moves my friends without first moving me!

just because bushco is not in favor of extending the term marriage to gays does not mean they are coming to get us.

leave your passport at home GBC. it ruins the line of your slacks
:grin:

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. I won't leave it at home....

We may not be carted off to gitmo right now...But look at history...do you not agree bushco is following the NAZI Model? They sacre me...and till they are gone...I will be scared.


BTW I never wear slacks...501 Levis fer me always!

[MuseRider]

20. SUBTLE?

I think it is far more than subtle. I have noticed it but I am sensitive to it. Still, it seems to be a big topic and is becoming more inflammatory every day.

[Andy_Stephenson]

3. Pardon the error...l was going in warp speed.

your you're...what is a grammar error among friends?

:hi:

[roughsatori]

4. I was afraid the anti-gay equal rights people

might point to your error as a sign of our wickedness. I actually, had to go back and fix my own spelling in that post. I would have felt much shame if you had pointed it out before I fixed it. "Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone."

[mopaul]

5. i'm not concerned with you're grammar

but i am concerned about monkey man and his lawyers working on 'codifying' laws against homosexual unions. gays are a thorn in their hyper-moral sides, and bigotry is rampant on the right.

the fuckers are getting real bold, as if they know they cannot be stopped no matter what they do. they are testing our breaking points, and they will ultimately lose. the anti gay rhetoric is frightening to me, and i wouldn't say you were being too paranoid.
with these fuckers, it pays to be constantly paranoid.

.....i downloaded a free spell check program off the web...
....IESpell.....try iespell.com or use a search engine. they have a free version, downloads quick, works great.

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. WOW Mopaul

I think this is the first thread of mine you have posted to...Cool!

Hey are you Canadian? Wanna get married?

[mopaul]

10. sorry, i'm not canadian

and already married, to a girl no less.

this loud blustering about biblical morality and neandrathal homophobia just pisses me off. it reminds me way to much of what the nazis did. they rounded up and murdered thousands of homosexuals before they started doing it en masse to the jews. even though a large percentage of the top eschelon were also gay. in many cases, it was to shut people up, so no ss officer would be disgraced.
too similar for comfort for me

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. That is why I am worried.

Very worried...so worried I carry my passport with me everywhere I go.

[MuseRider]

16. No one should ever have to

live with that fear. Is this where we have come? I fear for all of us if that is true. There are an awful lot of us who would and do help you fight this. I wish I could tell you to relax but the last few days have been rather horrifying.

[patdem]

14. MoPaul, first of all I love your PEZident

Secondly, paranoia indicates an 'irrational' fear. I do not think being afraid of what this administration can or will do to gays is being 'irrational' at all. In fact when the PEZident sez 'we have lawyers looking into...'?#$%&? I am sure he has lawyers on the ground looking into seeing how to stop Democrats from voting?#$%&?

Third, how can gay marriage effect anyone at all? Maybe like when women wore dresses to cover their feet and everyone was so afraid that by exposing their feet it would cause some abomination? Or like the taliban..the burka is there to 'protect' women? Hey anyone can make up any lie they wish and if they have power can manipulate many into believing it!

[dfong63]

19. be fair

Remember we are all sinners and have "Logs" in our eyes.

Bush was not referring to gays when he said this, he was referring to everyone. he was appealing to the nation to be more tolerant. and you can bet the RWingers will give him pain over it.

[alaine]

36. Please don't insult our intelligence.

This was a good Christian way of declaring homosexuality a sin in front of the nation using a verse from the new testament which, considering we don't have a state religion in this country, probably pissed off quite a few groups, most notably Jewish people and atheists.

It's sometimes hard for Christians to comprehend why gays don't just humbly acquiesce to their view of things and call ourselves sinners. After all, we're only the ones with the speck, YOU'RE the ones with the log. I believe the Pope's actions do indict the church. The first thing the church needs to do to help these child victims is to stop calling homosexuality immoral and focus on why it is that religions that judge and restrict consensual adult sexual expression with so-called "moral" standards have such numerous occurences of sexual abuse of children.

Poor Bush. He can't simultaneously portray Iraqis as the enemy while harping on about his efforts to liberate them and give them access to the freedoms Americans have (had?), so like a true student of the propaganda machine of the third reich he has to find a new bad guy. Since he can't FIND Osama and he can't FIND Hussein, and we're not yet in hiding, it's us. Just keep on quotin' that bible, shrub. Try to piss off as many factions of the U.S. population as you can in the shortest possible time.

[Redleg]

21. Gay or not, we are all in trouble.

Our civil rights and place in the democratic process are going the way of the Dodo.

[Sophree]

23. Randi Rhodes funny

Paraphrase:

Marriage is hell. I tell conservatives if they really hate gay people, they'll allow them to marry.

That's why gay people are so happy- cause they can't get married.

LOL!

Sorry, had to provide some comic relief.

I'm straight, but I'm worried about them rounding up sensible drug policy activists/drug users, liberals, and gays etc. and putting them in concentration camps WHICH ALREADY EXIST. There is at least one in every state and Reagan had them updated in the 80s.

:scared:

edited for emoticon

[MotorCityMan]

27. When the supremes ruled on sodomy

I was completely shocked and needless to say, thrilled. I remember in '86 how upset I was when they ruled against it.

I was talking to my hubbie about it, and I told him that I thought that there was going to be a big backlash against gays now. The RW's make too much money on people's fear of gays for them to accept the SC's decision.

I don't think they are going to round us up into camps (yet), but I do think it is going to get nasty (and not in a good way).

[Outvoicer]

28. It may be a tactical mistake on their part ...

They are doing it as a knee-jerk response to the Supreme Court decision and as a way to shore up their far right base.

But shoring up the far right comes at a price.

Many in the moderate to conservative middle do not like this sort of gay-bashing.

My Dad is an example. He had already soured on Bush for being more "far right" than he claimed when he campaigned.

You can bet he won't take kindly to Bush's anti-gay crusade.

And many other socially responsible conservatives will not either.

This could very well blow up in Bush's face.

Fingers crossed.

[David__77]

29. But do they have a choice?

The right knows that the tide is against them, regardless of momentary "backlash" from the court decision. They also know that, once same-sex marriage is legal in a particular state, it changes the dynamic from one of "prevention" to one of disenfranchising existing marriages! So, they are a bunch of men (and maybe three women) in a hurry, dashing against the currents of history. Hopefully they will not succeed. The amendment option actually was more promising to them in 1996 when DOMA passed. Now, I believe at least 13 states would not ratify such an amendment, and further, it won't get out of Congress. It can be blocked in the House, if not the Senate.

[Christian73]

33. I admit that the homophobia in the air

is palpable but I don't think need to be worried about internment anytime soon.

I also agree that this could backfire big time. My grandmother (bless her) voted for GWB and the other day my mother lambasted her using Chris and I as an example. I think more minds are being won over to us everyday and this could potentially make Bush less desirable to many moderates.

[David__77]

30. On the brighter side...

Bush is still lukewarm about homosexuality in general. The fundies still aren't too pleased. They are having to lower their bar of what they expect from Bush. I don't see gays and lesbians returning to the darkest days of the 80s even, not under the worst of circumstances. We're out and have many friends and supporters. I'm not unaware of the dangers of backlash, but I think we have real gains on which to build. Just in 1988, both major parties were basically anti-gay. Now the GOP is where the Democrats were around 1980 or so. I think this is one fight we're still winning.

[Jax]

31. Ken Schram wrote a good op/ed on gay marriage

Don't know if you got to read it gb&c, or if you like Schram. I don't always agree with him, this op/ed supporting same sex marriage was very good IMHO.

Here is the link to his article: http://www.komotv.com/stories/26376.htm

snip...
"Maybe there's more satisfaction with just continued condemnation: deny them their dignity; refuse to acknowledge their relationships."


And here is a link to his page with his commentary about the e-mails, calls, and letters he received after his op/ed: http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=26398

snip...
"And to those of you (most who made it a point to describe themselves as Christian) who wrote using words like ^%$@ or %^^#$ or &(*&@ and #*&^@$, well, Tsk Tsk Tsk.

Do you eat with that mouth?"


Jax

[TrogL]

34. Canadian immigration

It ain't easy getting into Canada.

You need relatives, money, a job offer and lots of other stuff.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. How Will They Know Who's Gay

Bisexual?

[Andy_Stephenson]

37. Well considering everyone I know....

knows I am gay...it will be real hard to disguise and cover up...and...I never would...If you don't like my apples don't shake my tree.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. I'm Curious

Aren't you guilty of stereotyping?

It's not like there's a dress code or something