Who believes the new line of White House B.S. about WMD?

[Redleg]

David Kay stating that a lot of evidence is beginning to emerge but they are going to make us wait 6-months to find out what it is.

I hate to be cynical (actually, when it comes to Bush, Inc. I like being cynical), but how can we believe those lying sacks of shit anymore? This has Karl Rove's fingerprints all over it.

ON EDIT: In spite of my scepticism, I am worried about what they might reveal when they finally get around to doing it. Anyone else worried?

[deutsey]

1. Yeah, and Nixon had a secret plan for ending the Vietnam War

:eyes:

[w13rd0]

2. David Kay...

...the CIA fixit man who was booted from the UN team for unethical behavior? Yeah, right, I'm gonna believe anything that shill has to say...

[Redleg]

4. I had heard something about Kay's past- interesting stuff-

of course this administration likes to hire recovering creeps (Pointdexter, Negroponte, et al.).

[tom_paine]

16. Not "recovering"

Recovering creeps do NOT earn places on the Bushevik Team.

[salin]

32. retreaded

creeps might be a fitting term.

[Octafish]

36. Remember when BFEE bugged the UN Security Council?

Smirk and Sneer wanted to develop "files" on those who might actually vote to deny them legitimacy. That's another part of the WMD story down the Memory Hole.

[Itascapark]

3. I DO!!!

I certainly believe it's BS.

[Redleg]

6. You had me going there for a moment...

of course I intended my question to be rhetorical.

[Loonman]

5. Not I, said the brown dog

Same old shit(SOS) different wording.

[Ress1]

7. They might.

Nelson of FL seemed to think they had some pretty good evidence presented by Kay. I'd guess they have program clues and that doesn't get it for me, they need show actual weapons before I care one way or the other. Although, I'm afraid it'll be sufficient for the majority of the country. (sigh)

[Redleg]

8. I saw Nelson on CNN? MSNBC? this morning and he has me worried

He seemed pretty convinced about the validity of Kay's claims. I think you are right, the majority of Americans already assume WMDs have been found and some even believe they were used against us in the "war." Damnit- how do you fight that crap?

[dennis4868]

14. Why would Nelson believe

David Kay who is just one of the many thugs in the Bush misAdministration? He was kicked off the United Nations inspectors team for unethical behavior for crying out liud. He has no credibility. Plus, he goes around calling himself a scientist when he is NOT. No democrat (or any congressmen) should believe anything that anyone says coming from the White House ....it's all a pack of lies and it has been since the coup in 2000. If the Dems had any spine whatsoever they would insist on having the UN go in and do the inspections. Not the criminals and liars and thugs of thw Bush White House.

[Redleg]

18. Good question- one I can't imagine an answer to.

I do hope the Dems develop more spine. Some have.

[Lexingtonian]

25. NPR mentioned Ted Kennedy's opinion early this morning

Said there was nothing new there.

[salmonhorse]

9. David Kay stating whatever Karl Rove tells him to?

Bullshit! Kay has been out of the limelight for so long he'll say anything to get back on the 'inside'. Besides; what's the BFD? Of course Saddam had WMD. We; or some other capitalist entity, either sold or gave them to him. Rumsfeld was in Baghdad when he gased the Kurds. For an neo-con Admin that had initially forcasted 1/2 the deficit we now have even their rosey (and oh so timely) 2.4 growth rate, also designed to defuse what they are all about, is highly suspect to say the very least. The American economy is cyclical. It has nothing to do with Bush. These guys are unhinged. They are signing worldwide crony contracts at a historic rate because they know they do not have much more time before they are found out in sum total. WMD we know are only part of a landscape strewn with lies starting with, "I'm a uniter, not a divider..."

Throw Nixon-Bush-Cheney Out Of The White House ~ 2004'

[Redleg]

12. The BFD is that many Americans will see the revelations as

legitimising the war in Iraq. You don't think Karl Rove had something to do with the timing of these statements as well as the timing of the planned release of information in several months?

[salmonhorse]

39. You mis-understand me, here, from a post elsewhere:

"It is all just a mind fuck ~

Bush ran around during the election (yeah, I know "election"...what a hoot) with a highly presidential-esque jacket on, emblem that looked like a presdidential seal from afar spouting about how America "is just gon'na love Laura as the 1st Lady..."

It is all a psychic implant. It is all subliminal. Only lemmings truly fall for it. Granted...while re-publicans do have the lemming gene cornered it is nevertheless still just a mind fuck ~

In the absence of a free press it may be thus but their positions will not stand on their own. They need their hate radio. Their csmonitor, their Limbaugh, their wsjournal..."

Do I think that Rove's fingerprints aren't all over this fucking bullshit!?! I'll give you $5 if you can show a piece of bullshit that doesn't have his fingerprints all over it ~

[rasputin1952]

44. Fingerprints on...

the bullshit; with Rove...you'd be able to get dental imprints. After all, he's still a shit eating dog!

[EAMcClure]

10. The level of distrust for the adminstration

Nobody trusts what comes out of this government's mouth.

Yeah, we have some promising evidence, but you will have to wait. Is this like piecing together dinosaur bones for a museum exhibit?

That's more or less what it is, really. Little dropped bits here and there which will be fit together into some terrible whole.

Unfortunately, by the time six months elapses, so many of our peers will be dead in Iraq that WMD will come too little, too late. Even if Bush pulls all the stops to justify his hasty conclusions, this is still a nightmare from which hundreds of thousands of young men and women can not awake.

Even if Saddam had WMD, even if I give this administration that overwhelming benefit of the doubt... I still don't support the war. I still don't support this administration, and I still believe that this is a war for oil, for embezzlement, and for the eventual establishment of Greater Israel.

Eric

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

11. They'll find PROGRAMS, but NO WEAPONS

Democratic leaders need hammer home the point of the war was the "immedicacy" of the Iraq WMD threat...meaning their having weaponized WMD. If this doesn't become the bell-weather point, then Bush and his Nazis will squirm out of the issue by claiming Iraq had PROGRAMS.

PROGRAMS DOES NOT EQUAL IMMINENT THREAT!

JB

[Redleg]

13. Good point- unless someone plants WMD...

I hate to say it but I wouldn't put it past Bush, Inc. to do something like that.

[Ress1]

38. Exactly.

Apples and oranges.

[skip fox]

15. Doomed to backfire!

Shutting up for 6 months ain't going to make it go away . . . You KNOW they
would have announced it if they'd already found something of significance. You
KNOW they will break into their 6 mo. silent if they unearth something of certain
magnitude.

You know this, and everybody knows this. So the 6 mo. rule is transparently a
way of only deflecting questions, of taking the heat off. It will have the opposite
effect because it is so transparent.

Am I worried? I underestand those who are, but I'm not. Why? Because they've
captured SO many Iraqi officials and have interviewed SO many Iraqi scientists,
that if Iraq still had WMDs at the end of the war they would have pointed us to them.
The captives have been talking about their associates (witness further arrests &c.)
and about everything else. Do we seriously believe that they would keep quiet
about WMDs . . . especially since they have been offerec incredible incentives
(safe havens for them and family, no prosecution, hundreds of thousands of dollars?

No, the fact no one has turned them in (as well as the fact that Saddam didn't use them)
persuades me that they do not exist. (Certainly these two logical observations trump
the logic of the Bush supporters: 'Why didn't Saddam account for their destruction and
relieve his country from the sanctions?' . . . which does not account for pride and
the appearance of Iraqi strength in the neighborhood.)

[Redleg]

17. Yes but many Americans will believe- even if you and I are not duped.

The propaganda value of this stuff is huge.

[skip fox]

20. One indication might be to watch and see with what

passion this is embraced by the right wing media. I don't
think any media types will be strongly behind this (even Hannity
or O'Reilly) since it is counter to their supposedly 'profession'
training. (To want more rather than less information.)

George Will and a few others might nod their head at the 'wisdom'
of this, but the ploy is SO transparent, that the nod will be but a
minor qualification of their finding this a failed policy.

And here's where the war (for the hearts and minds) will be
maintained. In the media.

[dfong63]

24. good analysis

[Ouabache]

47. On Friday they said they would dig something up Saturday a.m.

Something about a wall outside someone's home in Iraq. They would dig it up Saturday a.m.

Well, here we are Saturday night in USA.
It's Sunday in Iraq.

Guess they found the same old dirt. No WMD. Like some crazy Iraqi would bury it at the foundation of his house. sheesh. Give me a break.

[lumpy]

19. I am worried that somehow

WMDs will be planted. Time, secrecy and care would have to be taken to accomplish such an endeavor, but is not impossible.

[skip fox]

21. Too risky.

Even for W's lack of concern about the judgment of history.

He's stupid, but even he has to think: What if we get caught? He'd be trash.

[Gman]

22. 6 months, huh? Just in time for the Democratic Primaries

Perpetual war. Does anyone even understand perpetual war for the sake of winning elections?

[StandWatie]

23. how the hell would they know that?

It's idiotic on the face of it.

I mean if there WAS a logical reason they could predict having their proof in six months why not say why they think that would happen. What's going to happen, Saddam is going to crawl out of his hole somewhere and personally going to dig up his millions of gallons of anthrax and tons of chemical weapons and his nuke and Dr. Evil's Moon Laser or whatever else they said he had and hide all this bullshit somewhere else?

[bif]

26. Who believes ANYTHING this administration says?

n/t

[OldSoldier]

27. You're asking that here?

If George Bush went on national television right now and said "today, the sky is blue," 99.4 percent of all DUers would walk outside and look up.

No one here believes a word the man says.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

28. I am worried. I'm worried because you don't know for sure, and I

don't know for sure, and nobody else knows for sure if in fact Saddam had WMD at the start of the war. As a business person, I've been trained from day 1 to be worried about the stuff I don't know. Just because we havn't found any doesn't mean that they are not there. They COULD still be hidden in Iraq or moved to Syria or to Lybia. And if you tell me "I know for a fact that there are no WMD, you will have no credibility with me anymore because you have no way of KNOWING that. You can "guess" that, but you don't KNOW that. Now, my gut tells me Saddam got rid of ALL his WMD months or even years before the war. BUT, I have no way of knowing for absolutely sure that he did in fact get rid of them. So, if you are not worried about a "surprise" WMD finding in the next six months, then you must be clairvoyant. And IF there is a WMD finding (which I admit is a BIG IF), you can bet that a majority of Americans will feel Bush has been vindicated and that the democrats are petty, partisan peaceniks who can't be trusted on national security. You can say "imminent" threat till you are blue in the face because poll after poll shows Americans don't care if the WMD were imminent threats . . . if he had WMD, then Bush wins huge. That is my nightmare . . . four more years of the worst president this country has ever seen Horrific economic policies, horrific social policies, and horrific foreign policies. The trifecta!!!

[skip fox]

29. Sure, you can always worry. And nobody knows for sure. But

I offer a corrective to the logic of the Administration which is more
compelling than theirs. Everything beside their rather feeble arguments
(that he had them and never showed he destroyed them) points to
the conclusion (not the fact, of course) that these weapons no longer
exist. If we go light on Bush because we are worried (despite the logic)
the dangers result in the same loss of election that you outlined whether
or NOT we find WMD. Right?

[whoYaCallinAlib]

34. Oh sure. I agree we have to go after Bush with everything we have.

No argument from me. But, here's my concern. If WMD's ARE found (and you don't KNOW that they won't be), OUR party's credibility is damaged. I'm concerned the majority of voters will make our party pay for these "partisan attacks" by giving the repukes EVEN LARGER majorities in the House and Senate. Then, they can do ANYTHING they want, and we can't even filibuster. But, sure, we have no choice but to keep charging ahead against Bush, and PRAY we don't find WMD.

[ProfessorPlum]

30. Bush has already shown that he has nothing

again and again.

Let's assume that what Bush has been saying is true (I know, big assumption).

1. Iraq has weapons that are so heinous and threatening, we cannot wait for inspectors for another couple of months - we have to invade!
2. We can find no weapons after the invasion.

Now, if #1 was really true, Bush would be . . . worried! But he's not - he's Devil-may-care. He's flippant. He's confident. He declared "Mission Accomplished". He scoffs at his detractors.

My analysis? Bush knows that #1 is a sack of horseshit. The "Mission" was never to secure those weapons - it was something else, something he's already achieved, which is obvious from his smug self-satisfaction. His Mission really is Accomplished, and the Universe help us when we find out (the full depth of) what that Mission really was.

Bush has shown us through his inaction that he never believed the weapons existed, or else he would be pretty worried right now about who has them.

[linazelle]

31. If it's only biological--Bush still lied about nukes.....

I personally believe they have known all along where Saddam was, and his family as well as about this disclosure. They are just strategically releasing it to control public reactions. Let's see...six months from now is the New Year and the earnest beginning of the presidential campaign. Sounds like they're using the "find" for personal gain.

[angka]

33. huge-ass setup

here comes the 'special plan.'

plant em, baby.

[punpirate]

35. Here's sort of a point/counterpoint....

This is a recent article on Kay's statements:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-wmd01.html

Here's an article from about ten days ago in the Guardian:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1001673,00.html

I'd say there's a slight divergence of opinion here.

And here's an Indymedia article on why he was removed from UNSCOM and what he did afterwards:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/07/268143.shtml

Cheers.

[Octafish]

37. Aaargh! Thanks, me Bucko!

Much obliged!

[punpirate]

40. One more link...

... which more or less agrees with the Guardian story in the previous post:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0731-03.htm

Cheers.

[Redleg]

41. Thanks for the heads up on Kay.

I knew there was something foul about that bastard.

[dansolo]

42. Vaporware

The make this announcement to make the Democrats think twice about criticizing Bush, on the off chance that they will look bad if something does show up. This is same as the fear of the Democrats being called unpatriotic leading to their approval of the Iraq war and the bastardized Homeland Security bill.

[Capn Sunshine]

43. I'm Not the slightest bit worried

remember the WMD PREMISE that they think we have forgotten:
IRAQ is THREATENING it's neighbors, and will give the WMD to terrorists, plus THEY HAVE THEM READY TO USE ON US IN 15 MINUTES

Now, if this were true, why haven't they found them by NOW?

No, finding anything down the road ,even TOMORROW is WAY TOO LATE.
It was a LIE.
:grr:

[fishnfla]

45. Documents of Mass Distraction

They are gonna bury us in paperwork. Big scary piles of paper. Ken Starr will deliver it to Capitol Hill. They will point to it and call it evidence, proof.
Late night comedians will have a field day. No I aint worried, in 6 months people will be like, "Where have you been?"

[Starpass]

46. Here's something from yesterday

I posted this in another post of something I saw on C-Span so will just cut/paste: This Kaye (sp??) administration slime who is over there now as our investigator. Saw a C-Span press conference with him, Rockefeller and a general. Then the cameras kept rolling afterward as the press asked Rockefeller questions off over in a corner. It seems this bastard (who is home huddling with Oval Office criminal) is putting together "so called" proof of the WMD's etc. But as I overheard Rockefeller who thought he was off camera, he kept emphasizing that the guy keeps emphasizing proof of "weapons programs" and that he as a member of Congress needs answers and is not impressed with this shit. He re-emphasized how we went to war because of supposed "actual" weapons and weapons ready to launch and nukes. So, what I think they are up to (and Limbaugh keeps telling his sheep that the great report is coming) is that they will present a bunch of papers that like Rockefeller says are "meaningless shit" to the bottom line and hope they can b.s. a bunch of rednecks into believing that they just saw justifiable proof. It's admamant that the Dems need to keep saying "so where's the fucking weapons that were going to blow us all away in 45 minutes"--in other words, they cannot let them bullshit their way through this.