Is Clark the Democratic Eisenhower ?

[kentuck]

Think about it. Truman was ready to throw his support behind Eisenhower if he ran in '48. No one knew if Ike was a Dem or a Repub. They knew he was a war hero - a four-star General. And the majority of people trusted him. In the end, he decided to run as a Repub and broke a 30 yr run by the Democrats.

If there is not a sure fire candidate that can win the nomination at the Democratic Convention, is it possible that Clark might be the compromise candidate for the Democratic Party - someone the majority of Democrats might support? I could see this happening with our present list of candidates. No one is going to get over 50%.

[robbedvoter]

1. Ike was quite incompetent. Clark is no compromise for me

he represents me so far in anything he says.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Ike Was A Moderate Republican

Today's Pukes would call him a RINO and he was quite competent. Presisdential historians rate him in the top third.


Read the "Hidden Hand" . Eisenhower was much more involved than his detractors give him credit for.

If Clark is a Democratic Ike I'll take him.

[RichM]

2. No. Clark is just an expression of the confusion & desperation of Dems,

who have no coherent political analysis of the essential problems facing the country. The people backing Clark would just as quickly back a movie star -- ANY movie star. Just look at today's "Crossfire" thread - there isn't a single idea in it. The whole thing is "Oooh, Clark is so handsome" and "Ooooh, he has a cute smile."

Where is the discussion of the plutocracy that the US has evolved into? Where is the discussion of disproportionate corporate power? There isn't any. That's because Clark has nothing to say on these issues. All he is, is a celebrity in a uniform, which makes a certain section of Democrats swoon, because they think this means he can't be attacked as "weak on defense."

It isn't going to fly. Most people who are deluded enough to accept the false rightwing assumption that "national security" is really a major problem for the US, are deluded enough to vote Republican regardless of who the Dem candidate is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. "Plutocracy"

I like our system of democratic capitalism. We just need to strengthen the safety net.

Clark is pro choice

pro gay rights

pro affirmative action

and

anti-Bush tax cuts

That's a start.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. That's everbody but Lieberman (anti-gay).

And a couple of them voted for reduced tax cuts.

When his ass is declared and he makes some definitive statements about his positions, I'll take a look.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Didn't

Joe was a homophobe.

[Composed Thinker]

9. Who cares?

If he shares the same positions and is willing to work with other people to enact legislation, then why not have him run? At this point, people seem to have him pegged as the VP candidate. If he can help us take the White House in any sort of situation, why become so upset?

[Imajika]

10. I mostly agree with you on this...

"No. Clark is just an expression of the confusion & desperation of Dems"

I think it is more desperation than much else.

It reminds me of when some on the left were actually talking up the notion that John McCain would run as a Democrat back when Bush was at 80%-90% in the polls.

It was desperation then, and I suspect it is desperation now.

Bush is going to be hard to beat. I think a lot of people, whether they admit it or not, know in their heart that Bush could win in 04' and are willing to back anyone who can beat him - even if they really don't know squat about who they are suddenly willing to support.

"All he is, is a celebrity in a uniform, which makes a certain section of Democrats swoon, because they think this means he can't be attacked as 'weak on defense.'"

I think your comments about sum it up. Can't say I totally disagree with this "certain section of Democrats", because I do believe that we need a ticket that will not be perceived as "weak on defense".

I just know virtually nothing about Clark and I am not going to get behind some theoretical candidate with no political track record that I know of just because he MIGHT be a stong Democratic nominee. I'd need to know where he has been on important issues, where he is now on those same issues and what sort of agenda he envisions fighting for should he get elected.

"It isn't going to fly. Most people who are deluded enough to accept the false rightwing assumption that 'national security' is really a major problem for the US, are deluded enough to vote Republican regardless of who the Dem candidate is."

I don't necessarily agree here. It could "fly". We don't need MOST of the people who would vote Republican over national security issues - we just need some of them. Adding a Democrat who is seen as strong on defense issues could help. It really all depends on the current events as we get closer to 04'.

Saying that, I am still not willing to blindly throw my support behind someone I know nothing about. I think we can win with one of the candidates we have. I don't see a reason for desperation. I agree it will be hard to beat Bush, but it is something we can do if the Democratic primaries produce a good candidate and the Democratic Party coordinates a good campaign. I see no reason to grasp as straws at this point. And besides, how do we know Clark would make a good candidate anyway. Yeah, he would probably be insulated on national security issues to some extent, but I have seen him often enough on TV and I don't find him that charismatic or exciting.

Just my opinion anyway,

Imajika

[Composed Thinker]

12. A little from Column A, a little from Column B

But the difference is that both of those guys had the ability, or so people think, to capture the minds and hearts of voters. It's not as if Democrats are saying they are going to support Guiliani if he runs as a Democrat. Clark seems to share many of the Democratic values, and if he brings a sterling military background to the table at a time like this, why would anyone hold that against him? Bush, no matter what we like to think, is not going to be easy to defeat unless another tragedy strikes or some massive scandal strikes and sticks in the public's mindset. But it's possible, it seems, to get him out of the White House. With Clark, it may become a whole lot easier.

[unfrigginreal]

11. Sounds more like Nader to me

Of course you probably wouldn't agree that those people would support "a movie star -- ANY movie star."

I wish that ALL NADER folks would get lost! Hopefully they can find there own website and leave Democratics alone. That won't happen of course, because we have Mods sympathetic to the cause, but I for one am sick of them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Celebrity In A Uniform

He was first in his class at West Point and a Rhodes Scholar to boot.

[Lefty48197]

32. Earth to RichM

current polls consistently say that the Reps are killing us on the issue of which party will best provide security for the nation. I doubt the retired NATO commander could be painted with that broad brush the way some of the other Dem candidates easily could.

[robbedvoter]

39. Yup. Them dumb Dem. If we wuz smart, we'd have Nader.

But we ain't so, a Rhodes scholar general who opposes the war in Iraq and is progressive on every issue will have to do, o, jenius one!

[Bread and Circus]

52. This post is crap

You have no idea what Clark backers think.
You are just afraid he might win.

[Pastiche423]

4. lol!

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

Plus what RichM said.

[mlawson]

8. 'Eisenhower' was a household word in 1952. 'Clark' is not, now.

EVERYone knew who Ike was. And they expected him to make a damn good president. He didn't, IMO, but *most* voters either thought he did, by 1956, or they didn't care. Adlai wanted to run on issues, but they didn't buy that, either.

I don't see any comparison between the two men, so far as public opinion would go.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Where's The Evidence Ike Was A Sub Par President?

[mlawson]

15. ???? What, exactly, did he accomplish??

The interstate highway system. Um, um..... There must be something else. ???

What did he do, to limit McCarthyism??? Why did he let the extreme RW Dulles Brothers run State?? Why did he not stop the CIA coup in Guatemala???

[Pepperbelly]

17. if the creation of the interstate system was my legacy, I would be very ..

pleased with the contribution I made.

:shrug:

[mlawson]

20. He had seen one, during WWII.

We know who actually had such a highway system created, back in the 1930s.

Many now believe that the adoption in the US of that system, signalled the end to public rail transport. I regret that loss very much. Or, it's a shame we can't have BOTH.

[TheBigGuy]

14. Clark wasnt a big wartime leader like Ike, not that popular.

There is an "Ike" element to the idea of a Clark candidacy as a miliitary figure who can transcend party labels and run less of a Democrat and more as a military figure.

What made Ike such a good choice for the GOP was that they where not a real popular party back in the day,...that was still during the days when the New Deal coalition was riding high, so they had to nominate someone who was less obviously Republcan than run-of-the-mill GOP politicos of that time.

[knight_of_the_star]

18. He could do it

His big strength is that he is hard for the Republicans to peg with a smear, his background is too much like what they want, someone who is a former general, I think he works for a consulting company, VERY strong on foreign affairs, good-looking, I've seen the site on him he shares out ideas, that combo is something they can't touch with a ten foot pole.

[Desperadoe]

19. Eisenhower Was Not An Incompetent President

Ike was a damn good President and one helluva General but he was an incompetent politician who never could understand how he was manipulated by his Repuke cronies.

That's why when he retired he bacame invisible. I always thought that he was ashamed of the way he was used by the corporatists within his party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. A Panel of of Eminent Political Scientists, Law Professors, and Historians

would disagree with you.

They rank him ninth. Not bad out of forty three.

I won't substitute my wisdom for their collective wisdom.

[Nashyra]

22. The Clark bashers

remind me of people who have something to fear, I have been an adamant Clark supporter since he came on the scene after investigating the positions that were available and reading his book and watching him on CNN. I have not bashed any other candidate and I try to add at the end of my post that I will work for and support any Dem who gets the nomination. I will work for Clark to be the candidate, if some other Dem wins I will work for them in the general election, although I do think that if he declares he will take over 1st relatively quickly, but lets stop doing the Repugs work for them by bashing candidates of our own party they all bring something worthwhile and valuable even if it is just dialouge

[imhotep]

25. Clark isnt in the "party"

and he isnt running, he isnt a candidate. So your tantrum is invalid.

[Bread and Circus]

54. But he is on Democratic Underground's home page

here's the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com

:nuke:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. no Clark will be what Esienhower warned against

the icing on the cake of the "Military Industrial Complex" imho

snipet from his NATO bio...........OPPS..... wrong link opps be right back

[Pastiche423]

24. Whoa...

I like that. I like that very much!

[JohnKleeb]

26. whoa

Pastiche you know who I feel you read my pm.

[Wonk]

28. re: Military Industrial Complex, check out this week's Bill Moyers NOW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=115311&mesg_id=115311

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. Wonk thanks ...great thread

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. If You're

going to bash Clark at least bash the right General Clark

Wes Clark was born in 1944.

He was first in his class at West Point

and

a Rhodes Scholar to boot.

[graham67]

36. Whoops....

you got the wrong Clark there. ;-)

[bicentennial_baby]

37. Try again

Wrong Clark.... :eyes:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. nope ...i got the right Clark!

and while i'm at it let me reitirate "imho Clark would be the topping on the cake of the "Military Industrial Complex" that Esienhower's farewell address warned against.

read his NATO bio Clark was a buisness man
http://www.nato.int/cv/saceur/clark.htm

[graham67]

43. Sorry, but...

Wesley Clark was not born in 1932 in Huntington WV.

[bicentennial_baby]

44. You've got the wrong bio snip in your post

"Wesley Clark was born on December 23rd, 1944 in Chicago, into an Orthodox Jewish Family. His father Benjamin Kanne, a lawyer and Democratic Party politician, died when Wesley was five years old. His mother, Veneta Kanne Clark, from Arkansas originally, moved the family back to Little Rock where she remarried a former banker, Victor Clark. Wesley was raised as a Baptist (he converted to Catholicism during Vietnam), and attended the local public schools. Influential in his youth was Jimmy Miller, a WW II veteran who coached swimming at the Boys Club. Wesley Clark became married to the former Gertrude Kingston of Brooklyn, New York, during Vietnam.

Clark is a 1966 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, where he graduated first in his class. After a brief stint in New York City working in the national poverty program, Clark was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University from August of 1966 until 1968, studying Philosophy, Politics and Economics.

After receiving a master's degree, Clark left Oxford to fight in Vietnam. The Vietnam War, a watershed experience for most American males coming of age in the 1960s, was the greatest influence of his youth. As an infantryman in command of a mechanized company, Clark saw combat in Vietnam and was wounded four times in action, while fighting against the Viet Cong. During his Vietnam service, Clark received the Purple Heart and a Silver Star.

After graduating from the National War College, Command and General Staff College, Armor Officer Advanced and Basic Courses, and Ranger and Airborne schools, Clark was a White House Fellow in 1975-1976, serving as a Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He has also served as an instructor and later Assistant Professor of Social Science at the United States Military Academy. Including his service in Vietnam, Wesley Clark has served the United States throughout the last three decades. Among his military decorations are the Defense Distinguished Service Medal (three awards), Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, Legion of Merit (four awards), Bronze Star Medal (two awards), Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal (two awards), and the Army Commendation Medal (two awards).

In April of 1994 until June of 1996, Clark became the J5, Director of the Pentagon's Strategic Plans and Policy operation, where Clark was responsible for world-wide politico-military affairs and U.S. military strategic planning. He also at this time led the military negotiations for the Bosnian Peace Accords at Dayton. From June 1996 until July 1997, General Clark served as Commander-in-Chief, United States Southern Command, Panama, where he commanded all U.S. forces and was responsible for the direction of most U.S. military activities and interests in Latin America and the Caribbean. From July 1997, until his retirement in June of 2000, General Clark was the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, serving then also as the Commander-in-Chief for the United States European Command.

In 2000, Clark voted with the Democratic Party in Arkansas. He is the author of Waging Modern War: Bosnia, Kosovo and the Future of Combat (2001, 2002), detailing diplomacy backed by force that was used to press back the Yugoslav troops from attacking the Albanians in the Kosovo province. From June of 2000 until February of 2002, Clark worked for Little Rock-based Stephens Group Inc. as a corporate consultant to help develop emerging-technology companies.

Clark is chairman and CEO of Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a business services and development firm based in Little Rock, and is the Chairman of the Board for ³Leadership for America², a non-partisan, non-profit educational organization dedicated to fostering the national dialogue about America's future.

General Clark also serves as distinguished senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a director of the Atlantic Council and a board member of the International Crisis Group. He was recently named chairman of the board of WaveCrest Laboratories of Dulles, Va., a technology company specializing in electric propulsion systems to help the country migrate from gas-based transportation systems to tomorrow's hydrogen based economy. As chairman of the board, Clark is supposed to provide leadership and direction for the company¹s business goals and objectives. Clark also serves on the boards of Messer-Griesheim, Acxiom Corp. of Little Rock and SIRVA Corp. He is a senior military analyst for CNN and provides expert commentary for the network about the war on terrorism and American foreign policy. "

http://draftclark.com/biography.shtml

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. crap ...your're right ... thank you.. so sorry my bad..i must sleep now

phew........:crazy:

[Kahuna]

49. What makes you think so? Please back up your

accusation with some facts.

[Composed Thinker]

57. Huh?

[PurityOfEssence]

27. No, he's the independent Chauncey Gardner

That appearance was terrible. Do we need another politician who can't answer a question? He had the golden opportunities, and he blew them.

This guy makes Perry Como look energetic.

He was asked about his inability to make quick decisiions. This was a splendid opportunity to say something to the effect that people who make snap decisions when they don't need to are not diplomatic material.

I like him well enough, but the love I hear is Liberal self-hatred: far too many truly believe that we have to crawl on our bellies and proclaim centrism to be allowed the permission to exist. Cowardice does not sell.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. PurityOfEssence hear hear ...well said!

:thumbsup:

[Julien Sorel]

31. If I never hear the term 'self-hatred'

thrown out in place of a proper argument again, it will be too soon. I'm not a 'liberal,' as the word was defined about 10 years ago. Yet I support Clark. So what am I? A narcissistic centrist? That psuedo-psychological crap needs to go.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Some Folks Prefer Losing

to surrendering their sense of victimhood.

Stand up straight.... Take the kick me sign off your butt... And be proud you're a Democrat.

[Pastiche423]

38. How about the word

FEAR? As in being fearful that our country needs a big strong military guy because * says we should be afraid of terr'a?

What he din't say, though, is that the BFEE created that terr'a.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I'm Fearful

that if we don't wise up the Republicans are going to screw us good in 2004 and they won't even kiss us in the morning.

[Pastiche423]

59. Wise up in which way?

I believe the candidate I support is "wising up" more people than I have seen in over thirty years.

Psst....... he's a Democrat and proud of it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Who Are We Supposed To Support

[robbedvoter]

41. Ralphie, silly, or at lest Kuchinich. Any other Dem (not flag burning

amandment voting) would be a sell-out, dumb, coward - you know - all the dem traits as viewed by the sainted Greens.
Just because they rallied now behind a dem, they didn't change: they still are bristling with comtempt from their vacuous out of touch stratosphere. Deja vu all over again!

[maine_raptor]

46. It's the Old Democratic Conumdrum

Idealism

Vs.

Reality

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I'm Supporting The Dem Who Has The Best Chance of Beating Chimpy

Just win Baby

[maine_raptor]

50. As we say up here.........

Ahyup!!!!!!!!!!

BTW DemocratSinceBirth....that was post 666, might want to wash that mark off. :evilgrin:

[unfrigginreal]

48. What answers did he blow?

Be specific since your being so damning. What was the question? And what was the answer?

[unfrigginreal]

51. The Crickets Got Tired Of Chirping

You can't be specific because you're blowing hot air! Clark answered every question on crossfire as ALL OF YOU would want a Democratic to answer them.

[Composed Thinker]

55. Which appearence are you talking about?

[Composed Thinker]

58. He gave fairly general answers to fairly general questions

[trogdor]

53. Dudes, Ike was the guy in charge of winning WW2.

Can Gen. Clark measure up to that resume? I think not. 'nuff said.

He's just a high-ranking member of the US Army who disagrees with Resident Dumbshit - a rarity, but not an Eisenhower.

[unfrigginreal]

56. Your right, it's hard to find a Republican these days...

that doesn't worship Ike.

I'll take Clark ANYDAY over your Repuke hero.