My Name is BobD And I'm a Demoralized Democrat

[bobd]

I guess I'm addicted to losing. I guess I'm addicted to once actually believing in the idealism woven through the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I guess I'm addicted to clinging to that idealism even though there are no longer any reasons for such clinging. I guess it's the addiction to clinging that continues my depression.

Being a demoralized is, to me at least, the only rational response to almost 3 years of continuous, unrelenting bad news. How some of you folks can actually remain optimistic is beyond my comprehension. Sometimes it seems that if one says Bush will lose enough times some sort of magical transformation will take place among the apathetic citizenry and they'll come to their senses and actually vote the sick bastard out. Well, there is no such thing as magical thinking. Saying it over and over and over and over will not make it so. If everyone on the planet actually thought the earth was flat it would still be round.

Plan on losing hugely in 2004. Steel yourself for the inevitable crash and burn of mis-placed optimism. The people of this country are deaf, dumb, and blind and they like it that way. Until there is widespread pain they will not open their eyes and they will not listen to alternative viewpoints. We are a deafening echo chamber here. That echo blocks out reality.

We face an LBJ/Goldwater moment. We face the rock bottom nadir of liberalism. I'm mentally preparing myself now for that inevitability. I'm 85% sure that we will come face to face with the end of our 200 year experiment in democracy. I fear that the bastards have finally and truely won. All that's left is the primal, reptilian surge of violence and the bloodbath to mark the end in scarlet.

[RummyTheDummy]

Buck up little donkey. It ain't that bad.

NT

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stuart]

8. Bush has 170mil to run against a nonexistent primary opponent

The deck is stacked. It will take more than wishful thinking to unstack that deck. Things will have to get worse (and they will) before this situation turns around.

That being said, if wishful thinking is all we got, then count me in. Nothing pisses off a bully worse than than an opponent who refuses to be bullied.

[quinnox]

2. There is always Paris

n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. you're wrong about magical thinking

I was a believer once; I know what it takes to make the transition - you expect too much from the average person.

We lack good arguments for cooperation, but that's what I do ... and activity is the antidote to despair.

The party system has failed us, but we're not powerless when we organize. When I met others at the Voter March demonstration, it felt good ... and we'll be there for the Republican convention.

[tpub]

4. that's how I felt 3 years ago

but not anymore. And I'm not just saying over and over that "Bush will lose," I'm out on the streets trying to make it happen. I'm writing letters to the editor, I've got my candidate's bumper sticker on my car, my backpack, and my tote bag. And tomorrow night I'm going to hand out his info. cards to the masses.

Of course it's possible we'll lose, but that's no reason to plan on it. If it happens, I'll deal with it then.

[cherryperry]

5. Oh, poor baby!

I have been feeling the same way until recently.

Then the polls started turning around.

And they keep getting better.

I believe if we all 'keep our eyes on the prize' we will take back the WH in 2004.

Get active, forget your area of the country, get active anyway - you'll feel better and, then, when we win, you can take pride in knowing you helped.

Now, shut the fuck up and do something! :loveya:

:kick:

[Dob Bole]

6. Why I'm a happy Democrat

Granted, 2002 didn't help morale (perhaps Landrieu did) However, Bush's re-elect rating is at 40-45% and history is on our side. Typically, presidents who lose the popular vote aren't reelected. Typically, presidents who preside over bad economic times sink. So I have optimism in that regard. In the worst-case scenario, he can only win one more term.

In this term, he hasn't been able to get any of his domestic agenda done. The only thing he can push through are tax cuts and military bills. The moderate Republicans do not allow him to do anything else- no "energy bill," no "control of the Senate between 2001-2003"- nothing.

And the last Supreme Court session favored us. I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic- but we must always be cautiously optimistic.

[Maple]

7. I can't believe any of you!

Body bags, 45% re-elect numbers, and the economy in the toilet....and you guys WORRY about the next election???

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Resistance Is Futile]

23. A year is a long time

A year is a long time, things can change, and never underestimate the power of an october surprise--be it another terrorist attack or another 'preemptive' war--to pave the way for a massive fascist victory.

[Eloriel]

27. And on THEIR side they've got:

* the voting machines -- could trump EVERYthing
* the media
* the power to wage more war or engineer more terrorist attacks

I'm with you and personally quite optimistic, but these are still formidable obstacles that have to be considered.

Eloriel

[Best_man23]

34. I will worry

Until I see President-elect (name of favorite Democratic candidate here) taking the oath of office on January 20, 2005.

Until then, I will do everything I can to make that happen.

[alaine]

10. Gotdam, is this democrats anonymous?

If I don't try and we lose, then I'll feel bad and have bad karma. If I do everything I can and we still lose, then I'll feel bad and have good karma. If I do everything I can and we win, then I'll feel good and have good karma. Those are the choices, for me.

[Gingersnap]

22. right on, great way to put it

that's how I view it too. And I opt for good karma.

:toast:

[onecitizen]

28. I'm mad now..........

and that makes me go out and want to tell the world what is going on. It just fuels me on!! The madder I get, the more productive I become. And I have faith in the American people. Look, most of the people identify themselves as liberal, which I've always known. And that fact was recently supported by a poll.

Our job is to go out and get them to vote. Sign them up, have them sign their friends up and so on and so on. Closer to the election, follow up and remind them to go vote. IF we lose next year, it will be because we didn't do our job.

We all get down some days. But we cannot stop now. The future depends on what we do in the next year or so. And I agree that our leaders failed us to a certain extent. But they are fighting now. Most of them anyway. I think they see what Howard Dean has done. I think it surprised them. My #1 reason for supporting Dean: He stood up to the policies of bush. He wasn't afraid to be the opposition party. Dean gave me hope. And still does. He energizes me. BUT if he doesn't get the nod, I will support the Dem candidate who does and will fight for them just as hard as I would fight for Dean.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. You're not alone.....

as you can tell by my id. I have been working myself up in anger since Dec. 2000, that democracy was on its way out of the US. I scream at the television when any of the fascists are on and even gave a 'Hiel Bush' when they invaded Iraq (that was at work, where they had rolled in a TV to watch the live 'war game' being shown). I stood on street corners and argued that it was all about oil and there was no threat. My mother believes I will be hauled away by Ashcroft any second now..

But down deep, I share your dismal view that it's a losing cause. I have always wanted to move to Ireland for my retirement but didn't want to go while my mom (84 yrs. old) might be needing me. However, I have now decided that if the worst happens in 2004 and * is elected (for the first time), I will immediately begin the process of selling my home and belongings.

I still have a tiny glimmer of hope and hope that their 'house of lies' comes tumbling down.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. Being optomistic...

the country is still very divided and 2004 will be a very close race: my guess, 4-6 points. Democrats should not give up just yet. Bush is a right winger, a wolf in sheeps skin. We need to effectivly fight him on every issue!!!

[pa28]

13. Resurrect democracy

I shared your views after the 2000 election. Here was a 200+ year unbroken string of freely elected leadership and it came to an end not with a bang but with a whimper. This triggered an identitiy crisis made worse after 2002 when party leadership went into a state of denial saying it "really was not that bad".

The 'pukes have a monopoly on media and money plus all branches of government including the courts. What we have now is a one party republic.

Why do I say don't give up? The apparatus still exists for us to turn it around. We can still buy advertising, they still count votes (at least in theory)and if we maintain a strong party structure we can take advantage when the cycle eventually turns.

If you can afford to donate money to candidates and causes give as much as you can.

P.S. Your message inspired me to pony up some bucks for this forum!

[Democat]

14. If many elected Dems weren't such cowardly idiots

We would be much better off and not nearly in as bad of a place as we are now if our elected officials weren't such cowards.

Many Democrat's frustration is with the fact that we are stuck with the losers on our side. If we had a team willing to fight, then maybe we could win, but the last two and a half years have show just as much about Democrats as they have about Republicans.

The changes that need to happen to the Democratic Party are not going to happen quickly. Our elected Democrats have already given away so much of what people worked for. It's understandable why some people are ready to give up.

[quinnox]

15. This reminded me

I remember these posts from you on the old board. You have a great deal of pessimism.

Heh, I bet even if the Dems win in 2004, the next posts from you at that time would be how they will lose in 2008! Don't worry so much. Smell the roses.

[shirlden]

16. Clue me if I'm wrong,

but, didn't Gore win the popular vote ???? Why is it not possible that those same voters and hopefully more will hit the Demo button again ??

Now if we only had some way to have an honest election......HMMMMMM
Yeh, I see your point.....it is hopeless. Goodby America, I really loved you.

:crazy:

[swinney]

17. DEMOCRATS WILL WIN IN 2004.

HARD WORK AT PRECINCT LEVEL AND IT IS LET US CELEBRATE.

DEMOCRATS WORK HARD DURING PRESDIENTIAL ELECTIONS.

BUTT IN CRACK SO WE WILL WORK WORK WORK TO GET OUT OUR VOTERS.

RECALL VOODOO WIMP I? 90% APPROVAL. LEFT IN 20'S.

[patmacsf]

18. HI, BobD!

[bobd]

21. Hello?

n/t

[Rex]

19. Good gravy, might I recommend an anti-depressant?

I mean, I'm cynical and jaded like crazy...but even I know Bush Jr. is going down in 2004.

[stanwyck]

20. It's still EARLY

very, very early. So much can happen between now and election time. So much will happen. This kind of hypothesizing is merely a mental exercise. And maybe a way for us to strategically plan. With the communication we have now (and the fickleness and short attention spans of voters) predictions are too hard to make. The Bush administration is finally getting the scrutiny they deserve. Another year will be ruinous for them.

[JNelson6563]

24. Well BobD

The way I see it we've got two choices and those are choices that my late, much beloved Dad could pretty much reduce every situation down to: you can either curl up in a ball and cry about it or you can do something about it.

Guess which one I choose. ;-)

Julie

[tpub]

25. way to go, Julie!--n/t

[jiacinto]

26. I'll leave it at this

If you want to feel that way, fine. But the rest of us are going to try and do what we can.

[Ardee]

29. friends of Al Gore

Hi, my name is ardee and Im a demaholic. Ive been democrat free for three months now as a registered independent.

I do need , in the interest of fairness to remind the pessimistic poster that the democrats did win three elections in a row, you know! So, despite the potential for further illegalities leading to the usurper remaining in illegal possession of the WH there is hope for a democratic victory........maybe only a small one given that the party is in the hands of the quisling vichy 'democrats in name only', but nevertheless a chance.

[goddess40]

30. Gloom and doom

Could it be possible these gloom and doom predictors are freepers? I hope not. I'll tell you the post by BobD had me very depressed. Started me imagining the very worst. The thing for me to get out of this depression is to become more active. Currently I take part in weekly protests, staff the Democratic tent at the county fair, donate money to the Democratic party and ACLU, call in to talk shows to air my views and I participated in the protest when Bush's economic team came to my town. I plan on putting a Dean sticker on my car. When the Democratic candidate is chosen I will campaign for him (no matter which one wins), donate money, go door to door to distribute literature, man phone banks and do anything else I can think of to win. If we win how great it will be. If we lose I will go into deep depression but will know I did what I could to prevent the election of Bush.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

31. Silly rabbit, quite watching so much Fox News.

Just wait, Americans will turn on Bush when it becomes obvious that we are pouring billons into Iraq that we need here for healthcare, education, and social security. It hasn't happened yet, but as the body bag count piles up, they will start paying attention to the "all pain, no gain" aspect of Iraq.

[Flamingo]

32. Fight Back

Tough Times? You bet.
Fate propels a pendulum far more determined than our combined will.
Yet, I will not stop....and at risk of sounding too cliche...
"That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger!"
Formerly passive Democrats from all over America are using the events of the last couple years as a catalyst to energize, to motivate, to
mobilize. JOIN US. We will prevail....maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, for in our combined wil lies the hope for America's common man!

[bobd]

33. I Am Not a Freeper!

Just because I'm not optimistic about our chances in 2004 does not mean I'm a freeper. I don't know how to prove the fact that I'm not a freeper. I notice that my little gold star is gone which means I have to re-up my donation to DU. I visit DU scores oftimes per day. I do not watch ANY TV news, even local news and haven't since 12/12/00. I get my news exclusively from Latest Breaking News and the links provided therein.

Please also note that I have a right to be pessimistic and a right to be depressed about our chances in 2004. These two personality traits in no way nullifies my liberalism, my Democratic party registration, or my inherent membership as one of the "good guys".

I will be happy to demonstrate my non-freeperness if someone could tell me how to do so. As such I'll even provide my "real" name and city/state so you can begin your investigations into my purity. If you'd like more information I'll be happy to provide it.

Bob Dilworth
Toledo Ohio

[roughsatori]

35. "Bush slated to win 50 states in 2004" ???????????

Here is a link to a post at another site by a "Bob Dilworth"
http://dhartung.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$4529?mode=topic

Sounds just like the above one. Is that what you do, go around the internet and perform psy-ops for the Repukes?

[bobd]

36. Yeah, That's Me

I was attempting to engender discussion on the NY Post article that alluded to that possibility.

What's your point? Are you saying that unless one ascribes to an optimistic viewpoint about the 2004 election one is not welcome here at DU? Why is being negative about our chances equivalent to Repuke psy-ops? I admit up front that I am negative about our chances. From what I've seen out and about and from readinmg many of the outside links posted right here on DU I see no particular reason for optimism.
Why do you have to accuse me of working for the enemy?

Bob D.

[roughsatori]

38. Don't put words in my post

I did not say you were not welcome, I do not have the authority to say so. But yes, I do think posts like yours help to demoralize other Democrats; that does not mean you are working for the enemy, it just means that I think you are helping them--even if not on purpose. I could be wrong, maybe your posting such negative posts about the Democratic Candidates actually spurs people to fight harder.

[bobd]

39. I just re-donated to DU

How about you? Are you willing to put up some cash to support this board and its principles?

[roughsatori]

41. I was just talking to my brother

He told me that he used his real name at a political board, he was attacking Shrub, and then he got a virus--and someone found out his job and wrote an email to his boss with a link to the site. The "person" claimed my brother was trying to overthrow the country. I thought of how I had googled your name. You might want to think twice about using your name. I know some people who write about politics use their names. I am a published poet, but will not use my real name on posts. I will confess to a bit of paranoia though.

As for donating, I guess that I could donate to Freakrepublic then use that as a way to justify my postings there that may be suspect due to denigrating the Repukes. Repuplicans have a history of donating money to Dem candidates in primaries. They love to support the one they think will lose in the race against their own kind.

Do you think posting that the Dems are toast in 2004 has a demoralizing effect on others here? And if so, what do you think we should do to change that perceived "fact"?

[bobd]

42. I would never give a cent to Reichwing!

I'll bet they feel the same over there about us.

With regards to posting that the Dems are toast in 2004 having a demoralizing effect on others here ...

All of the optimism bandied about on this board hasn't appreciably lessened my own pessimism. Why would perssimism per se' be any different?

I'm not ashamed of my liberalism nor of my views about 2004. If people want to use it against me then so be it.

[bobd]

37. OK - I just Re-donated to DU

I'm willing to put my money up to support this board. My little gold star should re-appear sometime on Monday. I support liberalism and the Dmocratic party with my financial contributions. For all those that think I'm a freeper I challenge you to do the same and donate.

[Lexingtonian]

40. Give it some more time, Bob

The first thing is that this is not 'a democracy', and has never quite been that. It has been a country whose essential social and economic order was/is colonial, with most of its people invested in calling this colonial order Good and ordained by the Divine for reasons that were never particularly good. And yet we are doing our share to dismantle it, as each generation has done. And the people defending it hold out for as long as they can each time, only to collapse and regroup around another institution of the colonial system and fight about it for the next three generations. This society has progressively struggled with and gotten rid of the privileges of the Church/theocracy (1650-1720), the privileges of the King/feudalism (1720-1790), slavery (1790-1865), and serfdom (1865-1945). Now it's white male privilege/cultural Eurocentrism (1945-?2020) and the privileges of corporations (their lack of social responsibilities) that are at stake, in historical perspective.

It's easy to get to apocalyptic notions when the reactionaries are desperately clinging to power. Democrats may feel a helplessness-inducing lack of power, but you're not taking a close look at the Other Side and seeing how they feel they're riding a tiger- when they fall off, they expect to get mauled and eaten, so they're acutely desperate in their way independent of anything we might or might not be doing.

The simple facts reflected in the last couple of elections is that the Democratic Party has pretty much shed its social conservatives and is growing the social moderates and liberals at a rate of 3% of the popular vote every four years. In 1998 its positions became the popular majority (and sensing this, the Right precipitated the Lewinsky affair showdown in the hope of staving it off), in 2000 an electoral plurality, and in 2004- should all trends hold- it should become the electoral majority.

But the transition point of power, where some notion never previously dominant goes over the political 50% mark, is the height of instability and greatest anxiety for the society as a whole. The building anxiety was what caused Gore to seem the wrong man at his moment, a man of 1986 or 1992 rather than 2000, whether or not he technically won Florida. Then it made Bush seem the wrong man in the summer of 2001, where the 50% was probably crossed and the Right seemed completely exposed. But just when that point of greatest fragility and anxiety seemed crossed, bin Laden walked on stage and provided an enormous blow and distraction from the anxiety, a release for all the conservatives and moderates and even liberals with reservations (and there are many) from that painful tension and into hysteria outright.

But despite the distractors- 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq- the country has not stopped in its deeper trends. It has accelerated getting aging white people in with the conservatives (meaning there are fewer new ones to find for '60 or '08) but has not affected the younger people much, radicalizing or intimidating people but not really affecting their basic take on the society. The Right was hard hit, even surprised, by the Lawrence vs Texas verdict- they keep thinking the change is deeper than its appearances, that there's something that has magically stemmed the trends rather than an echo chamber effect.

It's true that very many people are unsure of what to believe and are grasping at pretty arbitrary (but somehow more certain-feeling) things to justify voting for one side or the other. But notice that whenever things get sorted out, Bush sinks in the polls. At present the number I watch is his 'reelect' percentage- the hardest and most serious assessment of where his side is. He peaked in March at 51% and is falling at a rate of a little more than -1.5%/month. He's now below his numbers during the Enron scandal. And Ed Rollins is correct about December or so being when he becomes unelectable- when his reelect number falls under the 38% mark, meaning that no swing voter sees reason to commit to him after about three years in office.

So let it go until December or so, then reassess the thing. Don't forget that Gore made up six or seven points in the last three weeks, not so much by doing anything in particular but by people realizing it foolish to give Bush the benefit of their doubts. Don't be surprised to see the same again in 2004.