This week's Bill Moyers NOW -The Military Industrial Congressional Complex

[Wonk]

http://www.pbs.org/now/thisweek/index.html

This week on NOW:

A patriot, former Air Force Captain and staunch supporter of strong defense, Chuck Spinney has spent 30 years inside the Pentagon standing up for the truth-the truth about defense spending, the truth about the failings of an extraordinary bureaucracy, and now the truth about whether America is prepared to face its current threat.

In a week where U.S. troops continued to be killed in Iraq, the government is warning that terrorists might be plotting suicide hijackings, and the Bush administration is considering its military options in Liberia, the full hour of NOW is dedicated to defense. In this time of war against a new kind of enemy who is unremitting, Spinney's analysis of America's defense system is startling.

As Spinney deconstructs what he calls the "military, industrial, Congressional complex," he reveals a self-perpetuating system that produces unneeded weapons and creates huge deficits. It is a system he says is "out of control." "Over in the Pentagon, we're not holding people accountable," Spinney says. "We are in effect undermining the Constitution because we won't address this issue of accountability."

The program also includes an examination of a pending defense deal that typifies the kind of waste Spinney says is rampant. The controversial proposal, which could be approved in Congress sometime in September, centers on an Air Force request to lease from Boeing 100 aerial tankers, which could cost tax payers as much as $900 million more than buying them outright.

Bill Moyers surfs the Web for information on America's defense and on where our tax money is going.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/spinney.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/defensedollars.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/defensemap.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/defensesites.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/resources/campaignf.html

Check your local listings.
http://www.pbs.org/now/sched.html

[TheBigGuy]

1. the real issue here is accountability.

In theory the accountability ends w. Congress, w. the Congressional comittees that provide oversite to the DoD and the House and Senate appropriations comittee.

The problem is that Congress is not holding itself accountable.

I

[TheBigGuy]

2. This is great...

...from the Bill Moyers link at the top:

n April of 1989, in "Shape Up and Fly Right: How to Build a Better Air Force for Less Money," Spinney wrote that a combination of base closings, consolidating squadrons, and relying more on reserve forces would be effective solutions for lowering the Air Force's operating costs. The Air Force later said in a rebuttal in AIR FORCE TIMES that Spinney was neither "serious" nor "professional."

Exactley right! Base closing will save tons of $$$ over the long term. But here we see politics playing into the equation. I hate to say this but Bill Clinton queered the deal when it came to base closings with his attempt to tapdance around the closures of the McClellan and Kelly AFBs.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. whoah...great thread............ thanks Wonk!

[Wonk]

4. You're welcome. (Time zone kick)

nt

[Wonk]

5. Everybody should watch this! nt

[Wonk]

9. Time zone kick

re: archives.... stupid cat jumped on the desk and clicked the mouse (stopping my recording) so I missed a tiny bit of the Chuck Spinney interview x(

[Wonk]

14. Time zone kick

[CWebster]

6. That was

a pretty good show.

[quilp]

7. And health care is unaffordable? n/t

[tomp]

8. leasing of tankers.

sounds like more privatizing of the military to me. these are sneaky sons-o'-bitches we're dealing with here--dem and repub.

[PunkinPi]

10. Glad somebody posted, I was just about too.

This thread needs a HUGE :kick:!

[madmax]

19. I watched but I'd like to get the transcript

it's not available yet.

:kick:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Thanks, Wonker.

How will Bill outrage me this week?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. I , NSMA, promise to kick Wonk's thread

if he MP 3's it for me tonight ...otherwise I'll miss it!

[Wonk]

13. mp3 here

As I mentioned above I lost a few seconds of the Chuck Spinney interview so I inserted a little dead air so you'll know where. If I get a better version I'll overwrite this one(same url).

12 M

Here's a link to the transcript, though it gets a page not found error at the moment.
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_spinney.html

[Wonk]

26. Quicktime video here.

Same tiny gap in the middle, unless I get a better version before you download this.

143 M

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. thanks I listened last night but now I want my mom to watch!

[Wonk]

44. The mp3 has been updated. There's no gap anymore. Same link. nt

[Wonk]

30. kick

[Wonk]

35. kick

[TheBigGuy]

15. Im amazed no one is engaging in this thread.

This is probably one of the bigger public policy issues out there.

Yet not too many posters.

Its not a simple "Defense Spending = Bad" equation. Its an issue of "How Much is Enough", and have weapon systems become just too expensive and why is that?

Its an issue of Congressional oversite and oversite that has been co-opted by political concerns...and issue of a viscious cycle of spending supporting jobs supporting votes for Congresscritters who vote for more spending for those jobs.

We are talking about a serious political issue here, folks.

[Wonk]

16. More fun to argue about religion or swoon over General Clark?

on edit: or talk about Kobe, yaks, and matcom's ass?

:shrug:

[JNelson6563]

17. I was lucky enough to catch this show

and I cannot say enough good about it. I thought it was riveting. Mr. Spinney has a remarkably pleasant demeanor considering the incredibly base ugliness of human nature he has been exposed to for so long.

He was intelligent, articulate and, IMO an Hero of the First Order. A great American. Where is that liberal media on this anyway???

Thanks for all the links Wonk. When I saw who posted the thread I smiled, knowing they'd be listed. :-)

Julie

[Wonk]

18. a kick because there's a dupe and I'd like to keep it in one thread

on edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=116538&mesg_id=116538
link to the dupe

[imax2268]

20. sorry about that Wonk...

we must have been thinking the same thing...there's only a few minutes between your post and mine...!

at least the info is getting out...!

[Wonk]

21. S'ok. This was all the way down on page 2 when you posted. nt

[Boreas]

22. Yeah Bill, where's the outrage

at this system which has put the nation at risk? If not enough people participate in what was set up as a participatory democracy...

Too bad Ike didn't call it like he saw it, military-industrial-congressional complex. With the addition of the word congressional the structure becomes crystal clear.

Are we in trouble from without or within? Sounds like both.

[newyawker99]

39. Hi Boreas!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[RussBLib]

47. Perhaps term limits are a good idea after all

One of the arguments against Term Limits is that it takes away your choice to vote for the incumbent, if you like that incumbent, if they are being term-limited.

Hey, I'd like to vote for who I'd like to vote for, but that doesn't happen even under the present system. The people that I'd like to vote for are never in the race. So you hold your nose and pick one, usually. With term limits, you'd at least get to vote for different people now and then. And you might be able to root out some of this rampant fraud if you have a steady supply of fresh minds in there and not the same 'ol, good 'ol boy network all the time.

If term limits are good enough for the Presidency, they should be good enough for any other elected official. (When Clinton was President, you might have wished away the 22nd Amendment. Now that Bush is in there, we don't want to be so hasty, now do we?)

Oh, and NOW was outstanding. No new show until Aug 22.

Still no transcript??

[imax2268]

23. here's something to ponder...

just watch the numbers grow...

http://www.costofwar.com/

[laura888]

29. Moyers showcased this site!

There was a screenshot of it on the show. Great publicity!

[xxqqqzme]

24. Moyers never disappoints

This program is Xceptional and Spinney is riveting. Check your local listings folks - in LA KCET repeats NOW on Sunday @ noon...so if U missed 2nite, U get a 2nd chance!

[Boreas]

36. Bill Moyer's speech link

Sounds like you are a friend of Bill. Me too. Here's a link you may enjoy.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0610-11.htm

[BeHereNow]

25. FINALLY!

Someone addresses what MATTERS.
While the left and right "chase tail" over shit
that does NOT matter to the power mongers,
the real agenda goes foward.
Bill Moyers is an American hero for bringing
the REAL issue to light.
Chuck Spinney is one of the very few who has
defended the Constitution through his work as a public servant.
I loved the Byrd clip...
WAKE up America- the topic of the Now program
IS the problem.
Until we adddress IT, all else is a wase of precious time and energy.
THANKS WONK for posting this thread!

BHN

[KT2000]

27. One billion dollars a DAY!

Actually - over one billion dollar a day for defense that does not even include any of the wars we are in. That is astounding.

On Dateline, the POW's who were rescued said their rifles jammed when they were under fire. This is exactly what Spinney was talking about. All the money spent on huge weapons system that won't work while we send troops to war with guns that don't work. Bet those soldiers are lacking a lot of things over there.

Loved the part about the military/industrial complex CEO salaries.

[mainer]

28. It left me utterly depressed.

I came away from the show feeling it's hopeless. The military/industrial/congressional complex can't be beaten. There's too much money at stake for those people.

And even if we elect a crusading Demoratic president, he'll never be able to combat it, considering what he's up against.

It's shows like Moyers' that make me want to move to Canada.

[LizW]

32. Me, too, mainer

I wanted to bang my head against the wall.

[otohara]

33. NOW Taking 3 Week Vacation

Damn, this is what I do on Friday night's NOW

[imax2268]

34. I saw the interview

with the POW's on Dateline...what was up with the one soldier on the end...he started saying that he was led to some Iraqi's...punched in the mouth...and then the rest of them told him not to say another thing...?

What's up with that...did anyone notice...I missed as to why the stopped him...are they not supposed to say certain things...has the military put a "gag" order on them to say only certain things...?

[Trajan]

37. KICK for the Wonkster ....

a KICK for the people, Wonk ......

[Karenina]

38. Another

:kick:

[oasis]

40. Bill Moyer's "Now" program is chock full of useful information.

This is the primary reason I contribute to PBS.

[Pobeka]

41. I wonder when the analogy of the cold war will hit

In those Reagan years, the reason we won the cold war was because we collapsed the USSR's economy with spending race in defense.

How long before *our* economy collapses with this absure response to terrorists. Bin Laden and Sadam are winning the economic war against us, and our "leaders" are too macho to step up to their own denial and protect the country.

If someone with more knowledge than me on this topic would write it up or correct me, I'd be eternally grateful!!

[Sophree]

42. Will watch now

So incredibly important. Thanks wonk.

:kick:

[Wonk]

43. a kick for Sunday afternoon viewers

[proud patriot]

45. Absolutely infuriating interview

:grr:

[sam sarrha]

46. Boeing lost $1,000,000 in contracts, they committed espionage

against Lockheed and stole 25,000 confidential documents... so they will need some kick back from all the campaign contributions over the years to make up the lost income... this will be a good start!!

[NJCher]

48. defense budgets leading to collapse

You took the words right out of my mouth, Pobeka. I thought the same as I watched the show. First the Soviet Union collapsed from this absurd fixation on war and now it will be the U.S.'s time.

The saddest thing about it all is that this money should be being spent on developing new energy sources. Instead we are spending vast amounts on weapons to fight over the last bit of oil--the byproducts of which are killing all of us with pollution and the results of it, such as greenhouse gas.

Talk about a lack of vision.

Another point on which Moyers hit hard was the fact that the Pentagon can't even account for a trillion dollars. Is this sick or what? And the republicans just want to make them less accountable. Now there's a solution for you. Ignorant bastards; anytime any issue comes up, they always want to do the wrong thing.

RussBLib, check out instant runoff voting:

http://www.fairvote.org/irv/



Cher

[WheresWaldo]

49. Question about armed services committee

I also saw the show, and was speechless. I'm wondering about Senator Levin in particular, he seems to be doing a great job as chair of the armed services committee, however in the interview, it seemed as though this was the committee the interviewee was speaking about. Is there a way to check out campaign contributions perhaps, or a way to know who is and who isnt involved in the whole "revolving door" system and the kick backs?