Which is scarier: A Theocratic State or a Corporate State?

[SweetZombieJesus]

My gut says Theocratic, but it seems to me a corporate state is more likely in this country. How long before we're the United States Of AOLTimeWarnerAmerica?

[Maple]

1. Theocratic

You can buy out, or take over, or ruin a company if need be...but a belief?...the best prison ever devised is the human mind.

[Shyriath]

2. Why just one or the other?

What would be scariest is if the two scenarios were combined...

The USA as a Televangelist State.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

7. with only 1 tv channel..TBN

[David Zephyr]

14. Exactly. We Live in A Combination of Both.

Hi, Shyriath. :hi:

[Shyriath]

17. Yay, I've been waved at!

Whassup? :hi:

[David Zephyr]

20. Whassup?

Here's another wave. I got my first wave from Crewleader over two years ago and I always treasure it.

:hi: :hi:

[NashVegas]

30. Good Point

In the Bible Belt, you can do a LOT of networking in Sunday church.

[regnaD kciN]

47. What do you mean, "if"...?

My original thought, upon reading the subject header, was "why choose between them when we have both right now?"

:grr:

[Az]

3. Both are problematic

and since they have teamed up already we don't have to worry about choosing as we are fighting against a theocratic corporate state.

Of the two I suspect the theocratic state is the lesser of the two evils only because religious social evolution is dependent on strength of society to enable its propogation. Therefor it is dependent on human social needs. Corporate drives are dependent only on economic drives and thus are not tied to our social needs.

[Clete]

4. A theocratic state.

Why? Because theocrats are believers and will do the most heinous deeds in the name of their gods. Corporatists, while dispicable, are motivated by profit not dogma.

[Duncan Grant]

5. Theocratic.

Too dark to even think about <shudder>.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. which is scarier: rectal or cerebral cancer?

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

22. Excellent point LOL

[Rick Myers]

8. We are LIVIN' in a CORPORATE STATE at this very minute!!!

[TheBigGuy]

9. Theocratic.

The coporation just wants to make money. The theocratic wants your mind and soul.

[Shyriath]

13. Hah!

I work in retail... believe me, they'll take your mind and soul too, if they can get it.

[JanMichael]

10. Both are horrific but a Theocracy is quite a bit more menacing.

Corporatism is more likely in the near future but don't underestimate the perseverance of the Hard Right Religious Fanatics.

They will never quit.

[leftyandproud]

32. at least with a corporate state..

you get something in return for war (MONEY) and there is some logic behind it...some tangible thing you gain from it (MONEY) Greed motivates it...With a theocratic state, you wage war over fairytales, and end up gaining nothing..
It is motivated by insanity.

[Muddleoftheroad]

36. You wonder why

People back the Christian right when the only alternative you show them is hate for their beliefs? Don't wonder any longer. Hatred like this is driving religious moderates away from our camp.

[redeye]

46. Any rational argument, please...

...other than "you're persecuting us!"?

[Hekate]

49. Christian Reconstructionists, Corporatists, and Neocons...

at this moment in history -- find it convenient to travel together.

It is not--repeat NOT--hatred of the followers of Jesus that alarms me. It is narrow minded fanaticism the like of which we have not seen since the Spanish Inquisition. Christians in the US have allowed the extreme right to hijack the public conversation about what Christianity is, just as the Republicans (and the rest of us!) have allowed the public conversation about patriotism to be hijacked by jingoists.

Regarding the Christian Reconstructionists, please google for that term, and go to their very own website and read what they have to say about themselves. Follow some of the links, including those by alarmed conservatives, and while you are still mulling over their influence over 20 years on the home schooling movement, google for the Heritage Foundation, which is their think tank. Start inputting various names associated with the Bush administration + Heritage Foundation, and see what you get.

Then reconsider whether our alarm is "hatred of Christians."


~~~On the whole, I prefer not to be lectured on patriotism by those who keep offshore maildrops in order to avoid paying their taxes. ~Molly Ivins~

[booisblu]

11. Theocratic

Inquisition anyone?

[LifeDuringWartime]

39. NOBODY expects the theocratic inquisition!

;)

[Cush]

12. how about: A Theocratic Corporate State?

eom

[Clete]

16. We could have that if the televangelists take over.

These guys are nothing more than corporate money making machines and they sell salvation. Horrible thought.

[Chesapeake]

15. close call but theocratic

either one is the end of America

[bleedingheart]

18. one and the same

edit: unable to link my new pic..

[Az]

19. Corporate state is more removed from the human condition

A theocratic state is dependent on the human condition. If the society does not thrive in some way the religion itself falls apart. History has already shown us what happens when a theocratic state loses touch with the society it is dependent on.

A corporate state is removed from humanity. It is not as dependent on our acceptance and is more able to develop specifically tailored addictions. It is also bereft of any moral code adopting whatever behaviour furthers its power. This is one area where a theocratic state is dependent on maintaining an image of moral rectitude. Thus a corporate state has more potential control of a society, less drive to be responsive to the society, no moral compunction, and seeks to provide an ever dwindling amount to the society while taking an increasing level from the society.

[jody]

21. A Corporate State is a Theocracy that worships Mammon. The

"one half per centers" who own over 42% of our financial wealth are its high priests.

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

23. I would say theocratic...

religions throughout history have been able to justify the most vile and brutal treatment of other humans.... in the name of their God :-(

[Walt Starr]

24. What's the difference?

Seriously, one worhsips money and so does the other.

:shrug:

[SteveG]

25. Theocratic

States controlled by corporate interests won't kill you if it isn't in their economic interest to do so, since they count on you providing a revenue stream, they have an interest in keeping you alive.

Theocratic states on the other hand, insist that you buy into their belief system, and if you fail to do so, believe thay have no choice but to rid themselves of the impurity you bring in order to protect themselves from corruption - in other words, they will kill you gleefully.

[StandWatie]

26. American fundamentalism includes organized capital

They are too entertwined here to seperate.

Suggested reading: Clash of Fundamentalisms by Tariq Ali

[MiltonLeBerle]

27. A Theocratic Corporate state.

Like the one were on the fast-track to becoming.

[leesa]

28. We already ARE a corporate state

Our congress is owned by corporations, our president is owned by corporations, our judiciary, including the Supremem Court is owned by corporations...what more would make us a corporate state??

[44wax]

29. It seems like a partnership right now

Greedy old prikkk pimp the holy roller vote so the corporate facsists can rape the system.

[donco6]

31. Theocratic . . . mainly because of its immediate . . .

. . . mainly because of its immediate effect - the execution of "non-believers" (i.e., anyone who isn't RW protestant fundamentalist).

Corporate at least has a vested interest in maintaining its customer base!

[leftofthedial]

33. yes

We currently have a corporate state and we are on the cusp of a theocratic state.

A christist state would be the worst.

[Dob Bole]

34. Theocratic state is becoming less likely...

while a corporate state is here now.

[Festivito]

35. Theocratic would be more scary hands down.

The arrogance of humans claiming to speak for God is scarier than the arrogance of humans claiming to speak for a human group of investors and workers.

And, yes we should fear corporatists as well. They are large groups of people who could outnumber even our political parties. Thank God for secret ballots so the individual can at least try, even though the choices may have been emptied by these larger corporate groups.

Thankfully our Constitution curtails theocracy, we should try to curtail corporatism also, and favor the individual.

[Rich Hunt]

37. how is a corporate state

How is a corporate state *not* theocratic?

In a corporate state -

*Those who have believed they are favored
*Those who have not are believed to deserve their pain

The "free market" is believed to be a state of nature, inexorable.

In fact, much "invisible hand" ideology has its roots in certain religious beliefs.

[jab105]

38. We got both....

You can argue it, but here is the good ole USA we got both....

God Bless Corporate America!!!

[mlawson]

40. Theocratic, no decision there. n/t

[soleft]

41. They're the same thing - vain attempts to deny death

Both worship an ideal, powerful protector/provider which will provide salvation from the horrors of life and death. Neither can satisfy the need to feel safe, creating bottomless pits of constant craving.

[nuxvomica]

42. To answer your question strictly, a corporate state

Theocracies are easier to overthrow.

[JNelson6563]

43. little difference

both tranlate into living for the sole purpose of giving glory to (insert-corp.-or-deity's-name-here).

I'd flee the country before I'd submit to either group/mindset.

Julie

[PurityOfEssence]

44. Theocratic; no question.

At least corporations accept cold reality and causality on some level. It may not be a nice level, it may be just how do I fuck and destroy to make ever bigger piles of cash, but at least they'll look at the the bottom line somewhere and see if the scheme's working.

An organized religion of the sort that'd want theocracy does not test its premises.

[thermodynamic]

45. Leaning toward corporate as we're a corporate state and have been fr years

And it's only going to get worse unless we get significant change and soon.

I'd rather be forced to pray to organized religion.

[MrPrax]

48. There's a difference? n/t

[JackRiddler]

50. Corporatism is a theocracy

It has its golden calves, its gods, its holy days, high priests, immutable dogmas, catechisms, nuns and monks, helots and hoplites, high inquisitors, icons, churches, pharisees, hypocrites ... "materialism" is a religion.

The most important and fastest-growing religion in the United States during the past century has been what I call "Salvation Through Sales." One of its mantras: "My Life Is Good - I'm Not a Loser." It has a concept of karma rather similar to the Hindus'.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm afraid I don't have time to write the book to explain it. You'll have to figure these things out for yourself.

Corporatism is about much more than "the money." Even if that was all, winning in the corporate game necessitates a totalitarian approach. Those who believe only in "the money" will lose out to those who make a whole life out of the organization.

Globalist corporatism is about shaping everything in the world according to one vision. Its ideas and goals are as uncomprimising as any religion ever managed.

Furthermore, what one normally calls "religions" are actually corporations...

This question is irrelevant. It's not like you get a "choice" between these abstractions, not in the form you phrase it.

In the end, the game still consists of you (me), the people around you (me), and the world: What are we going to do about it?

[Piperay]

51. Corporate

because it is so TOTALLY greedy, cutthroat and immoral.