Anyone Catch "The Daily Show" Last Night?

[GiovanniC]

His guest was John Podhoretz, who is the author of a book called "Bush Country : How Dubya Became a Great President While Driving Liberals Insane". At one point in the interview, I forget what Podhoretz said, but it had something to do with Bush being a "great leader", and the audience laughed. Now, okay, maybe that was rude. But then Jon Stewart, who I had always assumed shared my opinion about Bush, said that he thought people who compared Bush to Hitler had no credibility, and people who thought Bush was a moron had no credibility.

Now, in my estimation, Bush isn't exactly Hitler, but he's still pretty damn evil. And I do believe that Bush is a moronic dolt.

For those of you who watch TDS, especially if you watched it last night (or watch it tonight, it comes on at 7:00 pm on Comedy Central) -- do you think Jon really believes that? Or was he trying to put his guest at ease in front of a rather hostile studio audience?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. i think jon

tries to be fair...so he does not call bush names that make him sound "liberal"

[Demonaut]

18. Agree, but he achieved in making the guest look like an Idiot

subtle but effective.

[Az]

2. Simpy relying on the notion that bush is an idiot

is what is called an Ad Hominem argument. In other words it attacks the person instead of the actual argument they represent. It is a cheap trick used to discredit an individual rather than their case. If we cannot face down Bush's positions then we are not in fact credible in our stance. If the only thing we have is that he is the idiot son of an asshole then we are in fact lost.

[distortionmarshall]

25. wow - latin....

neato....

and i forget what fancy latin name means "fallacy of switched quantifiers", or "scope fallacy", but just because ad hominems aren't always a good/relevant tactic doesn't mean they're always not a good/relevant tactic...

in this case, bush's idiocy (or lack thereof, as it may be) is directly relevant to the question of whether or not he should be president.

the american public made a great experiment: they bet that an idiot could be a good president (plz, no whining about stolen elections). the american public was proven wrong - idiots make awful presidents.

latin or not, the fact that the typical use of certain language is for insultory purposes doesn't mean it is always so used, or even that the typical use is the best use.

[Az]

27. Definitions: Strawman

Pity it doesn't have a latin name. A strawman argument is based on taking a persons argument and twisting its meaning until it no longer represents their initial intent.

My intent was to suggest that Jon finds those that rely solely on calling Shrubco an idiot are without merit. It may be fine as an occaisional tactic. But if it is the only charge you have then it is foolish.

[samsingh]

3. i think Jon is trying to create dialogue

treating neo-repugs with dignity on the air allows us to suggest they do the same.

Jon demolished him anyway.

[rfranklin]

4. Bush = Hitler? The comparison is unfair!

Hitler was a much better leader than Bush by far!


(This does not constitute an endorsement of the techniques, policies or beliefs of Adolf Hitler.)

[Ruby Romaine]

28. no, I think he's Busholini, not Bushler!

nm

[tom_paine]

31. Plus, Hitler served his nation's miltary honorably and meritoriously

Compared to Bunnypants*, who barely served at all and then ran away because they were going to find out his urine had as much cocaine in it that the Tijuana Whorehouses he used to frequent

(no disrespect to hardworking Tijuana Prostitutes, or any prostitutes for that matter)

[Catholic Sensation]

5. well comparing Bush to Hitler IS idiotic

Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and Pol Pot are in a league of their own in terms of how purely evil they are/were. And one has to remember something about Bush, he did manage to steal the election from the very savy Al Gore. He's not as stupid as we think he is, and he's far less evil than those four people I mentioned earlier. Nonetheless, he's done absolutely nothing while President, except having the fortune of sitting in the Oval Office when Usama bin Laden decided to attack us. Plus, a lot of the people who call him a moron simply do it without providing evidence. I think that's what Jon Stewart meant.

[Az]

7. Its a lazy argument

It relies on association and emotions. You do not have to address the actual issues. He is right. Just like when Mahrer said that it took courage for the hijackers to fly the jets into towers. Sometimes saying the right thing is not what some want to hear. People are easily swayed by emotional arguments. Some take the lazy route to win people over.

[Catholic Sensation]

10. it's rush limbaugh-esque to simply go "Bush is an idiot/nazi/asshole"

I believe liberals and democrats are better than that, though many seem to have fallen into the trap of being lazy.

[Q]

8. Bush* didn't steal anything...

...his operatives did it for him.

- And really...the ONLY difference between Bush* and Hilter/Stalin, etc...is that the Bushies USED and perverted Democracy and the 'free' press to pull off a coup.

[Catholic Sensation]

13. And about 40 million murders

but ignoring the pograms, kristalnaecht, Aushwitz, sending innocents to Siberia, the killing fields of Cambodia, the mass graves in Iraq, death camps, and a host of other atrocities, yeah they're the same :eyes:

Try explaining to a Holocaust survivor how "similar" to Hitler George W. Bush is, I'm sure they'll see a parallel.

:eyes:

[NewJeffCT]

11. good point

Bush is minor league evil (mocking that woman that got the death penalty, blowing up animals in his youth, forcing that underaged girl to get an abortion, lying about the Iraq war) - but, I don't think he is stupid.

I think the biggest mistake we make is thinking of him as stupid. He is a self-described master of low expectations. So, when he debated Al Gore and Gore rolled his eyes and Bush didn't sound like a stuttering psychotic, Bush came out looking even in something that conventional wisdom said was where Gore had a huge advantage.

[Catholic Sensation]

17. the underage girl thing has not been proven

as far as I can tell it's only the left's responce to the lies about Kerry's "infidelities"

[thebigidea]

22. yeah, its outrageous! We all know Bush is BETTER than Hitler.

like, much better.

http://www.terminalproduct.com/betterthanhitler.rm

[phoebe]

26. then I suggest you read Kevin Phillips book about the Bushes..

n/t

[NashVegas]

6. Sometime Ago

I heard JS say "most people think he's very nice and not so smart. I think he's very smart and not so nice."

[samsingh]

36. exactly agree

Bush is smart and not nice. He is an evil liar.

[smirkymonkey]

40. I think he is incredibly stupid AND evil,

he just has a talent for deviousness and some people consider that to be a sign of intelligence. It's not, he's a sociopath and a liar.

Just becuse his body count hasn't reached Hitler's YET, it doesn't mean he hasn't caused this country and this world irreparable harm.

[NormanConquest]

9. Podhoretz was on Mancow about a week-2 ago

("Mancow Muller"=Chicago's Liddy/Bell/Stern wannabe) and Muller just ripped into him about airport security and PATRIOT. The Pod got really p***ed and hung up after a minute or two.

I was really surprised...I think Podhoretz was, too. Probably thought he had "homefield advantage."

[gulfcoastliberal]

12. Watched it Last Night

I think he's just trying to be fair and his larger point was about how nasty the discourse has gotten since all of the rotten Rethug dirty tricks aimed at Clinton - as Stewart said - over the 8 years of his presidency. I think if Stewart does think Bush is evil, he would have to keep that to himself to avoid getting crucified.

[Woodstock]

14. We had a thread on this earlier

today. My take is that the right has been flooding TDSWJS - that rare thing in the US, a show that tells the truth about Bush - with Halliburton commercials and PNAC guests. Under the circumstances - with all of us on the left basically shut out of television, radio, most major newspapers, all three braches of government, and losing our civil liberties, our jobs, and our life and limb in the case of the soldiers - a few chuckles in response to "George Bush is a brilliant president" is OK with me. We are powerless, and if we lose more ground in the Senate and House, will be even more so. Now we have to listen to day and night attack ads out of Bush's bottomless campaign warchest. These are difficult times for a lot of people on the left, who happen to be most of Stewart's audience. I agree with his point that there should be civil discourse, but I also think he needs to cut the vast numbers of people shut out from their own country some slack.

[Cleita]

15. I took John's remarks to be zings.

For one thing why would he mention the Hitler comparison if he didn't want it up there in the audience's mind? When he said Bush isn't dumb, I agree. We have all known people who are uneducated, often act rashly and stupidly, but can be cunning when cornered, and I think this is what Bush is.

Also, if you want to make Hitler comparisons, remember that Hitler was at first Chancellor to the President of the Weimar Republic, Von Hindenberg when he got the old fart to give him dictatorial powers just before he died. Hindenberg was elderly and lapsed in and out of senility, so he relied on the Chancellors to do the day to day governing. When Hindenberg died then Hitler became dictator and also declared himself President and commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

The question is, if Bush is Von Hindenberg, who is Hitler in the administration? It could be that Podhoretz is.

[LeinesRed]

16. thought he was zinging him too

JS it good at that...he'll say I'll give you this point...but what about this? He's a great interviewer. I thought that Podhoretz was a little uncomfortable the whole time-in a good sort of way!

[dennis4868]

19. Not a moron?

every night on his show Stewart shows clips of Bush acting like a moron. Wasn't that the point of Stewart showing the video clips of Bush?

[Catholic Sensation]

21. He said in an interview he exposes people for being "full of shit"

not to mock their intelligence.

[Woodstock]

23. Agree

TDSWJS has rightly pointed out Bush's deficiencies. Why backtrack now? We can get lies from Fox News. Stewart said, Bush is a smart guy, he's been to Ivy League schools. I know a lot of football players and rich guys that have been to Ivy League schools that certainly don't fit the description of smart. I'm sorry, but a man past 50 who can't yet master his native tongue is not a smart guy.

[EV1Ltimm]

20. john's right, I have no credibility

but at least i make an attempt to prove my simplistic points.

http://www.bushisamoron.org/articles.php

[Gothic Sponge]

24. I thought

Jon looked very uncomfortable during that interview. It must be hard to play host to some guests.

[stanwyck]

29. Stewart is walking a tightrope

and last night he almost fell. I appreciate Stewart attempting to be "fair and balanced" (unlike FAUX, which is clearly partisan while piously intoning "fair and balanced"). But his recent barely concealed anger toward the Bush administration has been healthy. We should be angry. Complacency serves no one. Stewart is classy. And polite. I appreciate that. But his guest was ill-prepared, pompous, and wrong in his statements. Stewart did puncture Podwhatever's veneer, but it was unsettling to see Stewart so concillatory. Although I do understand Stewart's intent not to become too shrill and partican, I'm a bit queasy at his backing down from a fight. What is at stake is too important.

[otohara]

30. Hope This Isn't A Sign of More Thugs to Come on Daily Show

to promote their disgusting books of lies and propaganda. There's been so much hype on TDS, it's becoming a tool. The GOP just realized it and will start asking for equal time.

[elfwitch]

33. Jon

He has had more than a few Fundies on the show. He keeps the peace and lets the audience make them look stupid. I think he is trying to maintain the semblance of fairness the keep them coming on. He has the opportunity to show people how ridiculous the RW types are. If he sits there and throws out reasonable arguments to unreasonable guests, he only makes himself look smarter. He is maintaining as much high ground as he can for a fake news show.

If he flat out insults these people, he will be completely written off ans a liberal nutjob. If he keeps doing the show like he has been, he will continue to receive notice as one of the only reasonable voices out there. The high ground is the only road he can take.

[otohara]

38. I Want To Have Jon's Baby, But

he just doesn't deal well with the thugs, and comes off as giving in -apologizing for being liberal. Makes me mad to watch him sit there and squirm for being liberal.

[elfwitch]

39. squirming too...

But I think he is playing it a bit safe on purpose. He doesn't want to lose the position he is in right now. He is "the Voice" of reason on the airwaves right now.

I don't want to have his baby, but I'd sure like to smooch on him a little while.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Watching John Podhoretz

(undoubtedly the son of arch-conservative editor Norman), his manner reminded me incredibly much of the rich, elderly Republican women who lived in my apartment building in Portland. They used to talk about Bushboy in exactly the same adoring tone.

[latebloomer]

34. I like what Bill Maher said

Stop comparing Bush to Hitler! Bush is not Hitler.

Hitler was a war hero.
Hitler was democratically elected.
Hitler had a mustache.

[Skittles]

35. well, regardless of whether you think Bush is moron

it's not good for civil discourse to SAY it. I think Jon was saying, instead of just saying BUSH IS A MORON, you could give examples which show clearly that BUSH IS A MORON without actually SAYING it. Of course Stewart thinks Bush is a moron.

[Devil Dog Dem]

37. Hitler was elected, and a decorated war hero (W.W.I)

eom