Wake Up - Corporatism + Bush = Jobs to India

[cthrumatrix]

many of you may have seen that Bush was against states who were thinking of legislation regarding companies and job exports to India. This is a major story since it effects our lives and clearly connects the dots for anyone with a brain that corporations run our world, our president ..our policies ....you get the picture



India winning higher-status jobs from US

By Amol Sharma | Special to The Christian Science Monitor


"Forrester Research estimates that 3.3 million jobs will be outsourced to low-wage countries like India by 2015. India's leading technology trade group, NASSCOM, says the Indian back-office sector will grow 65 percent this year, to $2.3 billion.

The trend is not sitting well with laid-off workers in the US, who are protesting the phenomenon in online chat rooms and discussion groups. Six states are considering legislation that would ban taxpayer-funded contracts from going offshore, which means India in many cases.

But the austere US economy may leave companies with little choice.

"In order to drive earnings growth in an environment where revenues are flat, the only alternative is to cut cost," says Mr. Lowes. "But you have to do that while maintaining quality of service to your customers." India is attractive, he says, because the quality of service is often comparable to or better than in the US."
snip...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0618/p01s03-wosc.html

The question is ...what can we do about this?

1) Boycott those that have exported jobs?
2) raise awareness in the media that can care less?

Looking for ideas....

[Iverson]

1. ain't just India, ain't just Bush

The close marriage of government and business, combined with policies that export capital and employment, is a systemic problem. Add hypernationalism into the mix, and you pretty much have the f-word.

Clearly, it would be a good idea to have a political party or parties that oppose letting this mix call the shots for the world.

[cthrumatrix]

5. I agree...but where do you go.....? Awareness is the first step for all.

"American companies are no longer just sending manufacturing jobs offshore - now the jobs are high-skilled technology positions. Forrester Research, which is hardly an alarmist outfit, estimates that a cumulative 472,000 information technology jobs will move to India alone by 2015. Call-center jobs, a staple of the regional economy here, are already on their way. A total of 3.3 million service sector jobs are expected to be part of the exodus.

The companies are playing what the Financial Times calls "brain arbitrage." That's the difference in cost between a skilled knowledge worker in India, or another developing nation, and the United States or Western Europe. The developing nations have an insurmountable advantage. The top 100 financial institutions in the world expect to save $180 billion a year by moving jobs to lower-wage countries. The loss for Western countries: 2 million jobs.

Of course, many factors beyond costs influence where companies and jobs locate. But the growing numbers of jobs lost, combined with the creepy evidence of this famously jobless "recovery," demand our attention.

We'll be tempted to dismiss the tech workers as whiners, just as we dismissed the textile workers, steelworkers and autoworkers. During the 1990s, the United States reached as close to full employment as possible. The decade saw the greatest number of jobs created in history. But two caveats: this was driven by an unsustainable bubble, and it's the past.

The future may challenge our triumphalist assumptions about globalization and free trade. Sure, they cause disruption, but the winners outnumber the losers and living standards keep rising. What if that's not true?"

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0710talton10.html

[Iverson]

16. more than one answer

Sure, awareness is the first step. The next step is up to you. You might ally with a group that already opposes the economic globalization status quo, and there are many. You might go Green or Socialist or ally with some other third party that aligns with your views. You might try to influence the Democratic Party away from the DLC. You might do strictly local or personal things. You gotta decide.

Best of luck.

[quilp]

14. You are right. Clinton gave us NAFTA.

The Democratic Party never mention this issue either. They talk about a "jobless recovery" without explaining where these jobs went. Many still think unemployment here is due to "technology" and "lack of demand". I don't hear the Dems saying otherwise. This giant tax cut for the "investor class" will make everything much worse. There is no requirement that it be invested in this country.

[Iverson]

17. you betcha

If we discuss the economy in the terms laid down by finance capital, then people don't figure too much in it. Thus, talking heads keep a straight face for the television cameras with utterances like "jobless recovery."

If we to the left of Reagan surrender the terms of discourse to the right, then pretty soon Mr. and Mrs. Middle America repeat these phrases with no counterbalancing rhetoric.

It's a little like believing that the anti-globalization movement is made up solely of spolied kids, just because the news media reports on little but the agent provacateurs who break windows. We see the results even here on left-leaning DU; some folks are terrified of appearing to be too far left, so certain topics are just not on the table for discussion unless they're accompanied by terms like "unelectable" or "utopian intrasigence."

It's an uphill battle, for sure.

[inthecorneroverhere]

2. actions

1) Boycott the companies that are exporting jobs
2) Support the legislation to ban taxpayer-funded contracts from going offshore

Regarding no. 1, I personally have purchased very little other than consumables (food, pet food), insurance, telephone, utilities this year. For the few discretionary purchases, I have purchased from local very small businesses at places like craft fairs.

[cthrumatrix]

3. India .....even petitioned Bush for "jobs".....take a look

"Drawing ire from India
Colorado Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo has created quite a stir in India. Yes, India. The Indian press wrote a number of stories last week about his proposal to eliminate all visas in the H1-B category, which allows professional workers, often in the tech industry, to take temporary jobs in the United States.

Thousands of Indians come to the United States on the specialized visas.

Sulekha.com, a media firm for non-resident Indians, has created a special online petition to protest the introduction of Tancredo's bill, which the site characterizes as anti-immigration.

As of the end of the week, the petition had 8,000 signatures, as well as a number of interesting comments about Tancredo that are not printable here.

The website states that the petition will be delivered to President Bush, the president and prime minister of India, Tancredo, the U.S. Congress, the Indian Parliament and editors of at least 50 major global media outlets."

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~26935~1522217,00.html

[cthrumatrix]

4. The move to India is a backed policy by this admin....read below

"Let me now turn to the economic realm. The United States and India can and should do much better. With all the positives in our relationship, the weakness of our economic links is glaring. Ten years ago, I would not have predicted that our military and political relations would be as vigorous as they are. I am happy to be proven wrong about that. Yet, at the same time, I would have never imagined that our economic relations would still be as limited as they are today. I am anything but happy to have been proven wrong about this.

As you in this room know better than most, U.S.-India economic links continue to be under-developed -- or, as Ambassador Blackwill has put it, as flat as a chapatti. This is so despite the enormous potential for commerce between our two large and dynamic economies. U.S. trade to India remains paltry. Although some 15% of India’s total trade is with the United States, less than 1% of U.S. trade involves India. Two-way trade between India and the United States is less than that between America and Ireland, a country with fewer than 4 million people! American investment, too, is at extremely low levels. Prime Minister Vajpayee has recognized the importance of U.S. investment in India. During his September 2000 visit to Washington, he called for $10 billion of investment annually from the United States. Unfortunately, levels remain closer to one-tenth of that sum.

Given India’s vast resources and the creativity of its people, India should be a magnet for investment. And, on occasion, it is. In Karnataka, Heinz grows and processes its own tomatoes and markets ketchup throughout India; Ford and GM manufacture cars in Indian plants; right here in Hyderabad, Microsoft is but one of many American firms in the realm of information technology that has established a significant foothold. "

http://www.state.gov/s/p/rem/2003/16397.htm

[cthrumatrix]

6. List of copanies and examples of how India has crept up.....bigtime

http://www.gnp.org/india.htm

> From the New York Times <8/11/02>: "If you lose your luggage on British Airways, the techies who track it down are here in India. If your Dell computer has a problem, the techie who walks you through it is in Bangalore, India's Silicon Valley. Ernst & Young may be doing your company's tax returns here with Indian accountants. Indian software giants in Bangalore, like Wipro, Infosys and MindTree, now manage back-room operations --- accounting, inventory management, billing, accounts receivable, payrolls, credit card approvals --- for global firms like Nortel Networks, Reebok, Sony, American Express, HSBC and GE Capital. ... GE's biggest research center outside the US is in Bangalore, with 1,700 Indian engineers and scientists. The brain chip for every Nokia cellphone is designed in Bangalore. Renting a car from Avis online? It's managed here."

> "New Jersey's welfare department was surprised to learn earlier this year that when their welfare recipients called with a question, they were speaking to an e-Funds call center in India."

> It is immensely profitable for companies to close customer service centers in the United States and Europe, and move them to India, where the workers are paid about $2,400 US per year. The customer service reps don't tell their American callers that they are really located in India. "Companies that outsource to India would prefer to keep that under wraps", reports S. Mitra Kalita in Newsday <7/15/01, pages F1, F6-F7>.

> Customer service reps in India are often "...told to pick an American name such as John or Rose, instead of their real names like Jeetendra or Radha. Javanti becomes Jessie and Sunaina becomes Daniella. 'They have to have a name the customer is familiar with,' says Prakash Gurbaxani, founder of 24/7 Customer.com, a customer service center in Bangalore."

> Computer programmers are being laid off by the thousands in the United States and Europe with the work being moved to India. Programmers in India are paid about $5,000 US per year, and receive almost no benefits. Comparable programmers in the United States earn at least $50,000 US per year. According to Clive Thompson in Newsday, "database giant Oracle has announced that it would be investing $50 million to expand its Indian offices." He also reported that Hewlett Packard is boosting its staff in India from 1,500 to 5,000. As Mr. Thompson so eloquently stated, "Eventually the United States won't make any hard goods, won't do the cerebral stuff and won't fulfill the orders. Then, what's left? Brand building? Business development? Shopping? Would you like fries with that, sir?"

> "Call centers ... are a $100 billion business, according to PriceWaterhouseCoopers, and much of that is going abroad. Companies like GE, Oracle, British Airways, Conseco, IBM, McKinsey, Ford, Citigroup and Microsoft are outsourcing thousands of US jobs to India, attracted by an educated workforce with 250 million English speakers and lower costs."

> Delta Air Lines will outsource some of its reservations services to a company called Wipro in India. The relocation of these jobs will reportedly save Delta $12 million to $15 million annually.

> Lehman Brothers has a $70 million/year contract with two Indian companies, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro. Tata also has contracts with J.P. Morgan Chase, Fidelity Investments and GE Medical Systems.

> Microsoft has a development center in Hyderabad, India, and also outsources some work to Indian firm Wipro. Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates visited India in November 2002, and told the media "A couple of years ago, the biggest American corporations would have considered it risky to outsource mission-critical work to India, but it is now becoming a common sense proposition."

[cthrumatrix]

7. New Jersey bill... fought by the corporations...

Turner's bill has made it through the New Jersey Senate but has run into stiff opposition in the General Assembly from lobbies representing companies taking advantage of the cheap offshore labor. And no wonder: Outsourcing to countries that exploit cheap labor appears to be the corporate wave of the future. Kishore Mirchandani, president of Outsource Partners International, a U.S.-based company specializing in outsourcing finance and accounting services, tells Insight, "There are a lot of companies in India handling the accounting and finance of major corporations. General Electric, American Express and Citibank all do business in India."

http://adam.antville.org/stories/395070/

[bodhisattava]

8. Americans need to educate Indians on a person-to-person level

I think one of the things that is missing in all of our discussions is the fact that US IT people and Indian IT people have become adversaries instead of allies. This can best be done by dialogue
where many of the misconceptions of either side can be dispelled and a workable program can be established. What this can involve would be to have Indian companies to set aside certain number of jobs for American IT workers and gradually absorb them over several years
as their American presence grows.I am sure many Indian IT companies can utilize American IT workers's unique experience of the American
market to increase their market share in the US.

These kinds of efforts are utterly lacking right now and American and Indian IT workers need to come together to jointly explore how both can benefit in the new IT environment.

[cthrumatrix]

10. third world countries and the US cannot compete until we are a 3rd

world country. The $$labor difference drives corporate greed. Thanks to all the wonderful treaties established for global free trade. The American people have suffered a tremendous exodus of jobs...while corporations and politicians think nothing of it.

This is a crime. These treaties were orgainzed by corporate lawyers...the lawyers bought the politicians and hence ....jobs lossed.

[inthecorneroverhere]

13. how to change it

Well, that adversarial relationship wouldn't exist if the corporations weren't using our American tax dollars to export our American jobs!!!!!

If the two countries' industries competed like good capitalists, we'd both be doing fine! The only 'adversarial relationship' would be on the level playing field of business competition.

But, nooooooooooo, our companies are taking our jobs out of our country and using the Indian companies as their lackeys!

[cthrumatrix]

9. My final post on this issue..... IF OUR ECONOMY IS THE #1 ISSUE

How can we ignore this issue? This move does not increase tax collections in the US based on wages. Summed up nicely by the Teamsters:

"According to the Teamsters spokesman, "The people with big business that are on the side of unfair trade love to talk about the markets this allegedly will open for U.S. products, but the fact is workers in Bangladesh aren't buying our personal computers and video games. And any cost benefits that are gained by shipping jobs overseas clearly are going to the top executives, not the consumers. It's hard to accept salary reductions and layoffs when the executives of these corporations aren't feeling the same pain. Slash and burn may be the overnight cure for shareholders' woes, but if you invest in workers you will build a stable citizenry that will buy your products."

http://adam.antville.org/stories/395070/

[inthecorneroverhere]

11. absolutely

The companies that have stopped investing in American workers should be labeled for what they are: unpatriotic.

There was once a time when both conservatives and liberals believed in investing in America. That means investing in our workforce, as well as plant and equipment.

Now, the neocons have abandoned that idea.

It's time to take America back!

Take away the tax breaks for these scoundrel companies that are taking jobs out of our country!!!

[MrPrax]

12. WTO Go Go Go!!

Let me get this straight...the largest corps are backing a plan to send jobs offshore and they have been doing it for 14 yrs...
CAPTA will replace NAFTA and what again...call centers are opening up in India and cars are made in Mexico...
And now the arg is that to stave african starvation, those countries need access...
Yeah the supporters od the democratic party only just figure it out...
Oh Man

[laura888]

15. 2 of their obstacles: taxes and breach of security?

It seems to me there are 2 other negatives coming out of shipping our jobs overseas (besides taking U.S. jobs) that could be brought up to the nation:

- government gets less tax $ because unemployed U.S. workers do not pay taxes. Even workers making less would pay less tax $.

- with this hyper-vigilance against terrorism, can we really afford to risk handing over jobs to foreign employes who do not have U.S. interests at heart? Now I definitely feel that terrorism is hyped all out of proportion right now, but for those who really are concerned with this issue, this seems a true danger in breach of security. Any computer hardware, software, network work shipping overseas is ripe for someone to plant viruses or surveillance devices.

If above is true, corporations are endangering our lives, not only our livelihoods.

am I out of line here?