Adultery

[Yavin4]

From FDR to Eisenhower to JFK to LBJ to Bill Clinton to Bill Cosby to Jesse Jackson to Newt Gingrich to Henry Hyde to Nicole Kidman to Meg Ryan.

Young and old, rich and poor, Black and White, it seems that adultery is extremely common. Why do people cheat? What's your opinion?

Here's my answer: Sex has been around a hell of lot longer than marriage. In fact, marriage is a fairly recent construct going back a couple of centuries ago. It was started as a means to pass on property within a family. Thus, monogamy is not a natural state for human beings. It's unreasonable to expect a spouse to be faithful to one person forever.

However, it may be unreasonable, but it's not impossible. I believe that true love does exist, but it's extremely rare. Two people can indeed live in total obedience to one another in all things, but our culture encourages and rewards selfishness. So, the odds of any of us finding true love is about the same as going into a Las Vegas casino with $100 in our pocket and walking out with $10 million.

[Blue_Chill]

1. Because at the end of the day most people

either can't control their urges, or simply are too selfish to care for anyone over themselves.

Cheating is the ultimate worship of self. Very few things in life that we do cause as much pain to those we love as cheating on them, yet so many do it anyway.

[patdem]

2. ANY animal on the face of the earth MEANT to be monogamous

has NEVER as much as looked at another...in fact they (birds mostly) spend an enourmous amount of energy looking for their loved ones to re up their relationship.

Man was NOT meant to be monogamous...in fact it is probably better if he is not? Evolution has MUCH to do with monogamous relationships and non monogamous relationships....are we to thwart Mother Nature and inbreed more and more and have fewer and fewer diverse children?

The gay population accounts for over production of the population...and monogamoy will not! Gay is as natural as monogomy is un natural....It is NATURE seeking a balance....without which we may as well just tarmak the planet and dome ourselves in and say fu*k you Nature....and Nature will have her way anyway!!!

[Yavin4]

4. I Believe The Same Thing About Homosexuality Being Natural

Without it, we'd over-populate the planet and crush all of its resources. Just like the dinosaurs, we'd get too big for the environment to sustain us.

[roughsatori]

3. This is my "old-fashioned" area

I am repelled by people who cheat on their partners when they are in a commited relationship. When someone tells me they are Christian and got married in the Church by taking a vow before God--and then tells me they cheat on their spouse--I make a note not to trust them.

One of my best friends repeatedly cheated on her husband, she felt no remorse, and said she was "horny." I felt bad, but I thought so much less of her that it was difficult to remain friends.

If a couple agrees to an open relationship, that is fine.

I know this is a terribly conventional opinion, and judgemental. My parents are married for over 57 years. I am single. Maybe, I am just jealous, that the cheater has a partner they take for granted and I don't even have a partner.

[Yavin4]

5. If You've Never Been Married...

then how can you ever judge a married person that cheats. I don't judge adulterers harshly because I've never been married. I do know that sex is very important to me, and if it was denied to me, I would cheat.

[jagguy]

7. because its a promise

that you make to one another. You don't have to be married to understand that promises are meant to be kept. Rationalization is no answer.

[JasonBerry]

10. WHAT ????????

"If You've Never Been Married, then how can you ever judge a married person that cheats."

What kind of logic is that?

Let's just extend your logic throughout society:

Oops, forget it....I just thought of the first one and it says it all -

"If you've never been president then how can you ever judge a president who lies."

Value are values - and both (by the way) based on an oath.

If you want to cheat - leave the marriage.
If you want to lie to the people - leave the presidency.

[Yavin4]

15. We Can Judge Someone If They Break Laws

Adultery is not illegal. It's an act of personal behavior. If you committ a crime, then I can judge you. I can't ever know why someone would cheat and neither can you. In some cases, cheating could actually save a marriage.

[JasonBerry]

24. AND....

Sometimes lying can save a presidency.

Okay, let's stretch your "law-only" logic out further......

You say, "If you've never been married, then how can you ever judge a married person that cheats?"

If we only applied judgment to laws, then the whole of trust within the foundation of our society would breakdown.

How about....

"If you've never been a baseball player, then how can you ever judge a player that uses corked bats?"

It's not against the law! BUT, it's against the RULES. The RULES of marriage, unless both partners have agreed otherwise, is faithfulness. That doesn't mean it's natural or anything else - but that's the way it is.

What about the actions of corporations who lay off thousands to send the jobs to another country and exploit their low wages? It's not against the law! However, would we not agree we have a right to cast judgment upon that corporate decision?

How many times have you said to someone, "Well, it may not be against the law, but it's not right!" Probably more than a few. You were casting judgment on that person, action, etc. To say that we can only judge situations which we have personally been in is - besides a rather bizarre theory - the foundation for a total breakdown in societal values and expectations of our fellow human beings.

[RapidCreek]

30. Oh really?

Cheating is a break of the trust on which a marriage is based. How can breaking a glass save the wine which it held?

If you are married to me, and you break the trust that binds us, you can bet your sweet ass I will judge you.....and I shall have every right to do so.

RC

[Blue_Chill]

33. It should be a crime!!!!!

Cheating risks spreading disease to thrid parties that are put at risk by anothers irresponsible behavior.

How is it different then drunk driving? Another act where ones irresponibility puts others in danger.

[graham67]

6. RE: Adultery

"monogamy is not a natural state for human beings."

I agree with this 100%.

[Dem2dend]

8. People cheat because

it has become acceptable.
While some people are outraged by it, many people treat it as a necessary evil and an escape for temptations they don't have the patience and moral fortitude needed to overcome.
It is accepted by both gay and straight couples, it is a victimless crime and it is human nature.

[jagguy]

11. it is not a victimless crime

there is at least one victim.

There are very few victimless crimes (consentual, uncompensated "prohibited" sex being one), all the rest have victims somewhere otherwise they would not be crimes.

[liberalhistorian]

14. Yes, but it's not really a "crime" in the true sense of the

word, nor should it be. Frankly, it's a very personal matter and is no one else's damn business other than the people involved. I've never understood why people thought other people's personal lives and sexual lives were any of their own business, and why they have the need to stick their noses in it.

And that old argument about not being able to trust people who cheat is bullshit. Just because you're not an "adulterer" doesn't make you a saint or mean you're not a bad person. You can, for instance, lie about the reasons for dragging your country into a war, then send hundreds of young men and women to their deaths and kill thousands more innocent civilians without blinking an eyelash.

[Dem2dend]

26. Cheaters

Yes but when I hear someone brag about how they have cheated on their spouse and gotten away with it, it reduces my opinion of them.

I would never trust them for advice with a personal dilemma or look up to them as someone who I would consider to be principled.
People who have never cheated may not be saints, but they show a respect for their SO that implies they are capable of trust within a friendship.

[RapidCreek]

27. My girlfriends sexual life is my business

As is mine, hers. She puts my health at risk if she has sex with partners other than myself without my knowledge and I would hers in a similar circumstance. The argument that one cannot trust a person who cheats, is bullshit? That statement is as ludicrous as the rational upon which you base it.

RC

[jagguy]

28. I didn't use the word crime

and there is something to the notion of truthworthiness. IF this promise is not a promise then what of others that that person makes.

But you are correct to point out that it is none of the business of those unrelated to the situation.

[Blue_Chill]

32. Cheating says a lot about a person

If they can't be honest with the person they claim to love, then how can they be trusted in dealings with people they care nothing for? I'm sorry but a cheater is a dishonest person, and they diminish themselves in the eyes of their peers.

Also cheaters in this day and age can destroy the lives of those they love by passing disease to their loved ones. It's as irresponsible as drunk driving and should carry a stigma no less severe.

[JasonBerry]

35. Blue Chill - You are 100% correct !! N/T

~

[Dem2dend]

23. Victimless crime

What I meant (and should have said) is that there is no criminal penalty for adultery. Society has made it a non-issue, and, while studies have compared it to child abuse, many have chosen to ignore the long term ramifications of their actions in favor of immediate gratification.


Adultery is a "crime" in the Biblical sense only. The Bible offers rules on many actions that have long been discarded as intolerable from a human perspective.

[jagguy]

29. it is a crime, go through a divorce and see

there are huge monitary consequences to breaking this vow.

[Blue_Chill]

34. biblical my ass!

Ever met someone that got AIDS from a cheating spouse? Tell them that it's purely biblical.

[FlaGranny]

9. Love is not being obedient to each other -

it is treating your significant other they way you want them to treat you; and in a lasting relationship it is mutual. Cheating might be "fun" and exciting when you're young, but people get old and grow up. Sharing you life with someone you trust with your life and who is your best friend and confidant just doesn't get any better. I'm now living in a senior community and it is jammed full of people who have been married for a lifetime. I would guess that people who cheat have never learned the benefits of sharing and trust. That is sad because they don't know what they are missing.

Edit: I had my "share" of sexual partners when I was single, so I "know" the grass was not greener anywhere else.

[Yavin4]

16. True Love Means Living Your Life In Service To Another Person

It means that you live your life in service to your mate, and everything else, including your career, is secondary to your marriage.

If you cannot make your marriage the number one priority in your life, then you should not get married. If your career is more important, if your money is more important, if your friends are more important, then you should not get married.

I over heard a conversation between two young women about getting married, and all that I heard was, "I want to get married by 26", "I want to have a kid before 30", "I want a man who is successful". Over and over and over, "I want..." , "I want...", "I want...", but nothing about "I'm willing to give....". That's why marriages fail. People concentrate too much on what they want not what they're willing to give.

[FlaGranny]

22. I've placed my relationship first,

but I've never felt I was in "service" to it. It would be very sad to feel that way. If you felt you were living your life in service to another, how could you possibly be happy? My husband gives to me every day in the little things he does, and I give to him every day. It makes us both secure and content in the relationship. It's like growing a plant. You water it and feed it and it grows and the result is that you have two happy members in the relationship with neither one wanting or needing anyone else.

I totally agree with you that relationship must be your #1 priority and that marriages fail due to selfishness - that's absolutely the main cause.

[JasonBerry]

25. What was I doing?

Yavin4,

I just spent time writing to you in a previous post about why it IS okay to judge a situation even if you haven't been in it. You had just said how you simply cannot judge marriage because you have never been married. But, correct me if I'm wrong, but this last post of yours just tossed that out the window! Isn't your advice for how married people should act - based on your judgment of how they should act? It's interesting - sociology is full of contradictions. I hope you realize if I say, "For a marriage to work you must/must not...." is no different from your saying "For a marriage to work you must/must not...."

[Yavin4]

43. You're Confusing Judgement With Opinion

I'm not making any judgments. I'm just saying that this is my opinion of true love. I'm not saying that yours or anyone else's marriage should be like this or not. I'm not making any judgments.

[Ilsa]

12. Nicole cheated on Tom?

I didn't know that. Details, please, someone.

[Yavin4]

13. It's Gossip

but from many sources she had an affair with Russell Crowe. Some have speculated that he lost a second Best Actor Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind" because of his affairs with Kidman and Meg Ryan. Again, it's only gossip.

[TheBigGuy]

17. people get bored w. the same old same old

just a guess.

[jagguy]

38. children get bored

and if all you're about is screwing then you have no business taking vows.

[StClone]

18. Another Question

Monogamus relationships that last a life time. How does that happen?

[Yavin4]

19. As Chris Rock said,

People will cheat based on their options.

[sandnsea]

36. You make a decision and stick to it

After 20 years of monogamus marriage, I can say it's really that simple. I suspect not drinking or otherwise engaging in mood altering drugs has made it alot easier. Just an added thought, not a condemnation on anybody.

[Blue_Chill]

37. It happens when unselfish people

remember that the point of any relationship is to try tomake the other person happy. When two people of this type are together they tend to last forever. Sadly most unions are either one person cares only for the other while their partner cares about something else like money, career, themselves ,or whatever. The second type are those that care about themselves only but managed to fall in love anyway, once the charm fades away they are left with only love for self and quickly seek to prove it in divorce court.

[jagguy]

40. 25 years later

I still remember my vows. More significantly, I thought about them before I made them.

How hard is that ?

[Mari333]

20. It is none of my business

what consenting adults do, or whether they are monogamous or non monogamous.
Its a non issue.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jagguy]

41. hit the nail on the head brother

that and smaller things like how I get to be, as a coach and male, surrogate dad to the daughters of divorce on my kid's teams. I'm glad to be able to do it and I do the best I can, but there is someone else who should be doing this. You can see it in their eyes that they wished their own dads were doing it. Nine year olds in this sort of pain really tug at the heart...

[davidinalameda]

45. how about subsidies for tobacco producers

beef farmers, etc

Tobacco kills more people every day than AIDS. Heart attacks are one of the leading killers as well--brought on by people sucking down red meat

People don't get AIDS from random sex. They get it from unprotected sex and unsafe sex. There is a BIG difference.

And I know people who have been infected because they didn't know that their partner was infected and their partner didn't know as well.

Promiscuity has nothing to do with being infected.

[Blue_Chill]

46. did you miss sex ed class?

People don't get AIDS from random sex. They get it from unprotected sex and unsafe sex. There is a BIG difference.

There is no SAFE SEX when it comes to AIDS. It's been proven time and time again that HIV can go thru barriers of all types.

[FDRLincoln]

21. marraige

Well, I'm pretty traditional about this too. I understand that monogamy is not "natural." I have no problem with single people doing whatever they want with other single people. And I have no problem with open marraiges either...AS LONG AS BOTH PARTNERS AGREE THAT THE MARRAIGE IS OPEN.

If one partner cheats and it's not OK with the other partner, that's a big problem in my view because it is a violation of trust. I'm a big believer in the honor of keeping one's word. You take a marraige oath, you sure as hell should keep it.

Like I said, if it's an open marraige and both partners agree with this and understand it, then that's fine. But if it's not an open marraige, then in my opinion adultery is a sin, just like stealing or lying.

By the way, I've been married for 11 years and have never cheated or even come close, even during "dry" spells sexually.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

39. What?

"From FDR to Eisenhower to JFK to LBJ to Bill Clinton to Bill Cosby to Jesse Jackson to Newt Gingrich to Henry Hyde to Nicole Kidman to Meg Ryan."

Are all of those people really adulterers? Maybe I'm really out of the loop but i thought the only adulterers in that list were Clinton, Jesse Jackson, and JFK. I knew that Gingrich divorced his wife at her bedside when she was sick. I'm just young, i guess. I have never heard anything about FDR, Eisenhower, LBJ, Bill Cosby, Henry Hyde, Nicole Kidman, or Meg Ryan.

If you have the time can you tell me who these people cheated with, cause i'm totally lost.

[jagguy]

42. certainly Cosby, Kidman and Ryan

FDR, Ike and LBJ are more likely rumors though I'd not question LBJ.

[Yavin4]

44. Gingrich Was Having An Affair

While his estranged wife was dying of cancer. Bill Cosby was being blackmailed by the daughter of a woman that he had an affair with. Ryan and Kidman were both rumored to have had an affair with Russell Crowe.

Henry Hyde's affair came out during the impeachment hearings.

FDR, Eisenhower, and LBJ have all been rigorously researched and their affairs have been proven by historians.