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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 11:57 PM
Original message
how do I reply to this idiot?
Hitler was a leftist. You can't deny it. Please, tell me how Hitler was a free-market capitalist... His work creation programs - would a "right-wing" government pour in funds for government work creation programs? That's like calling the New Deal right-wing. He was for high taxes, government control of numerous industries and businesses, against free trade, intense regulation on wealth and business, and for gun control. A socialist in every way...

He hated capitalism just as much as he hated Stalin's brand of communism. He loathed the bourgeois and upper classes. Hey, I guess you're just like him! Bitter against the rest of the world because you suck at life!

Read about his Labour Front. Basically gave government control over all businesses employing more than 20 people
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why waste your time...?
:shrug:
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Eureka Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. How close are you?
You could reply with open or closed fist, just under the eye. That aughta sort it :-)

Nah, I'm not advocating violence..... It doesn't matter whether Hitler was left or right, same as it doesn't matter if Bush* is regular Republican or mega-neo-republican. Either way they are dangerous sociopaths exploiting their 'base' for their own evil agenda, everyone should be against Hitler/Bush.
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rudeboy666 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. He had socialistic aspects
...but his nationalism, racism, and brutality were far-right offsprings.

I think that these aspects pretty much disqulifies Hitler from being a leftist.

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rudeboy666 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. p.s.
Any socialistic aspects were just means/tools for his grander scheme i.e. the master race(which is from the far-right).

Whatever means necessary(even if it includes some socialist ideas i.e. government programs,etc...) in order to further the cause is justified.
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Joe Momma Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. here is a good start...
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Free Inquiry Magazine / Spring 2003

Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, studied the fascist regimes
of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto
(Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14
things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of
fascism. The article is titled 'Fascism Anyone?', and appears in Free
Inquiry's Spring 2003 issue on page 20.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans,
symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as
are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in
fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in
certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way
or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long
incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need
to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given
a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic
agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively
male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are
made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed
and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family
institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in
other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government
regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in
the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric
and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major
tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's
policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are
the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually
beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a
fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are
severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher
education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other
academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts
and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to
enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses
and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is
often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist
nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and
associates who appoint each other to government positions and use
governmental power and authority to protect their friends from
accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national
resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen
by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times
elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even
assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control
voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of
the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to
manipulate or control elections.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Tell Saddam Hussein was worse than Hitler...Bush said so...
...and he was also a friend and ally of Reagan/Bush.

'nough said.



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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. nice one
lol
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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. hitler was also a vegetarian painter.
the writer and hitler both share in their overwhelmingly evident penchant for intolerance.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thanks for the explaination.
Although I should be old enough, I can't say that I was familiar with Fachism. I appreciate the posting, but I must say, it's frightening that it sounds so similar to what's happening with this administration.
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Dunedain Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Albeit a failed painter
He couldn't pass the exam....damn Austrians should have let him have a little easle in the janitors closet.
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Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. If that were the case:
Then why were so many american industrialists in favor of Hitler before (and some during) the war? E.g. Henry Ford, The duPonts, William Randolph Hearst, and everyone's favorite Nazi sympathizer: Prescott Bush...
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kispoko Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. hey!!
sifl and olly? holy shit, i forgot about that!

lol, thanks for remindin' me of some good tv ;)



now, back to the program....


try not to allow conservatives to confuse economic issues with social ones. either on purpose or because they simply don't know any better.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Most educated people equal the left with liberalism...
and most literate people equal liberalism with liberty.

If this idiot equates fascism, Stalinism, and Nazism with liberalism, he needs a basic education in history and economics...not a political debate!
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. Here ya go
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html

also:

Conservatives are also currently on the march for change in
many other countries, such as Great Britain, the Netherlands, and
France. In the twentieth century, two of history’s most horrifying
conservative movements, Hitler’s Nazism and Mussolini’s fascism,
gained power specifically because their leaders promised
change. Jost et al. (2003) admitted that there is a “conservative
paradox” (p. 342) of right-wing revolutionaries—but, quoting
Muller (2001), they argued that it is more “an imaginatively
transfigured conception of the past with which to criticize the
present” (p. 2625).

http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/resources_files/ConsevatismAsMotivatedSocialCognition_Critique.pdf

and:

The contention of Jost that Stalin is a figure of the political right, not the political left is laughable on its face. What is true, of course, is that the extreme political left, exemplified by Stalin, and the extreme political right exemplified by Hitler, ended up in much the same place and indeed admired each other prior to the attack on the Soviet Union by Germany in 1941.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/jost_conservatism.html
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Dunedain Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. With a knowing smirk?
Clearly this person is more interested in lobbing bombs of idiocy at you than having a rational discussion.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hitler illegally invaded nations
just like King George.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Hitler was a brutal dictator more than anything
Dictators are ALWAYS for.....

1 - Gun control. You think he wanted an armed uprising?
2 - Government control of business and industry.
3 - High taxes to finance his army to strengthen control.
4 - Regulation of wealth and business to suit his needs.
5 - Trade deals beneficial to him and his cronies.

These idiots on the right have been so brainwashed by Fox, Limbaugh, and their country club church, they no longer know up from down or left from right. I've actually had these nincompoops tell me that losing millions of jobs to free trade and outsourcing is good because it's the free market, republican thing to do. Some even say they're willing to lose their job if it helps the conservative cause. I've also heard more than once the old Marie Antoinette line about the poor, "Let 'em eat cake".

Somebody tell me, where did these brainwashed fools come from all of a sudden? I've never met republicans like the current crop until the last few years.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. Don't waste your time....
Take the time that you took to ask us how to respond to this idiot; then take the effort it took to ask the same question of us on this forum; and use that time and effort for something more worth your while.

These kinds of people are totally out of it. Don't waste your time.
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
18. This means comparisons of * to Hitler are having an affect.
Edited on Tue Mar-02-04 01:19 AM by Pobeka
This quote means that the rabid right is actively working to de-sociate Bush with Hitler by associating Hitler with the left.

Don't let them get away with it. This is really, really good news when you step back and think of the implications.

On edit: Clarified subject.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think you'd better off by just calling his ruse.
Edited on Tue Mar-02-04 01:15 AM by Cat Atomic
Tell him he's using is the same "blame your enemy for everything" tactic that Hitler used. Tell him he can argue that black is white, up is down, and socialism is fascism all he likes, but he'll have to do it with someone else.

Wish him luck in his therapy and forget about him.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
21. tell him that Hitler worked with Germany's rich
and made them even richer - he did not regulate wealth at all. Compare Stalin's USSR and Nazi Germany - the 'out of control' extremes of the left and right - and you see that in one, being rich, or owning anything (eg your own farm) was liable to get you killed or imprisoned, while in the other, you could proceed as before - as long as you didn't object to Hitler.

Also tell him that free trade, as opposed to protectionism, started as a policy of the centre/soft left - the Whig/Liberal party of Great Britain, against the protectionist tariffs of the Tory/Conservative party, who were the landowners and aristocracy (the phrase 'right-wing' originated in France, referring to the pro-monarchy and aristocracy politicians).
Socialists are in general opposed to nationalism - hence the endless "Internationals". Hitler was the biggest nationalist the world has ever seen.
The Labour Front was Hitler's replacement for free trade unions. It didn't control businesses - it just kept the workers in line.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
22. Hitler was a corporatist and very right wing
He was anti-communism, so dumbass freepers saying Hitler was a leftist are talking out of their asses as usual.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
23. "because you suck at life"???
Edited on Tue Mar-02-04 07:41 AM by BiggJawn
Is this sumbitch close enough that you can stick your fist in his face?

Ignore him or tell him that you hope and pray that he CHOKES on that silver spoon he was born with in his mouth.
sounds like one of those annoying children of privilege who actually thinks he got averything his daddy gave him on his own.

Either punch him or ignore him, life's too short.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. German capitalists LOVED Hitler.
They got huge govt contracts. The Nazis eliminated smaller (Jewish-owned) German & foreign companies in competition with them. They got very cheap or free labor. No unions. No pesky regulations.

They would fit in very nicely with the Republicans. Bush ain't a free-market capitalist either.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. ummm, true conservatives are opposed to the free market
if this idiot knew anything about political philosophy and history he'd know that true, classical conservativism is opposed to the free market.

The most right wing parties in Europe are against the free market and globalization, because it undermines the family, community, and national sovereignty.

What goes by the name of "conservative" in this country is a mixture of some true conservatives, and some classical liberals (see Jack Kemp's defense of "liberalism"; I know this is too complex for the tiny minds of right wingers in this country, but these are the facts)...

That said, the capitalists actually did just fine under Hitler.

These right wingers really are right out of 1984 aren't they...
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