Live Election Reporting at BlackBoxVoting.org -- more...

[BevHarris]

Live Election Reporting

While you're here: Sign this: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cleanvote.html -- please!

The Activism Forums at http://www.blackboxvoting.org have temporarily been converted to election reporting and analysis. Please note anything that causes you concern at the polls or caucus in the appropriate state. We will keep these Election Reporting forums open until each election is certified. For the media to follow up, include your contact info. If you must keep contact info private, e-mail it to (Andy Stephenson or Bev Harris and the media can call us.)

NOTE: Anomalies often don't appear until auditing, canvassing, and analysis has been done

If you are from the media, note that you may be doing American citizens a disservice if you report the company press release "everything went well, no important glitches" two minutes after the polls close. Allow time to get the canvass, statistical analyses, citizen reports, and follow up in before drawing conclusions.

CITIZEN WATCHDOGS: What to look for and report -- Let's get good at this before November!

1. Optical-scan systems and absentee ballots: We have information that all systems recognize carbon-containing marks (soft lead pencil). Some DO NOT recognize all inks. You may want to bring a soft lead pencil to the polling place with you to mark your optical-scan ballots.

2. All Diebold counties (AccuVote and AccuTouch are Diebold brands) -- Ask that the poll workers print a report and post a copy at the polling place at the end of the day, whether they are required to or not. All Diebold machines, both touch-screen and optical-scan, contain internal printers and have the ability to print a polling place results report. This takes 60 seconds and costs nothing, and is an important check and balance to compare with the county results from the GEMS system, which we believe to contain security flaws. Votes should not change from the polling place to the county.

Report any instance of mismatched polling place/county tabulations at the BlackBoxVoting.org site. Do NOT accept the excuse that they won't match because early votes, absentee, provisional, or challenge votes were added into the polling place totals. That is called "co-mingling" the data and is not an acceptable record-keeping practice. Additional categories of votes must be accounted for as separate line items.

3. Sequoia touch-screens do not have an internal printer. A printer can easily be hooked up with a serial port. If you see printers, demand a polling place report.

4. Watch for any "wandering vote tallies" on election night, especially if any votes go DOWN. (Yes, this has been known to happen).

5. Late poll openings: Report these immediately and we'll try to get cameras there. This is a form of vote suppression, often occurring in minority areas.

6. Late vote results: Report late incoming tallies. These can be indicative of the county trying to resolve voting machine anomalies before filing reports.

7. Observe how many cords come in and out of the voting machines. Report any evidence of networking the machines together. Report any time you see more than a simple power cord plugged in while the election is in progress.

8. Wardrive election sites. See if you can pick up wireless signals either during or after the election. Wireless communication is not permitted. Also, report any use of cell phones for vote transfers, which is also not permitted.

9. Election workers: Report the procedures used for training if they seem insecure. For example, we have already had reports that in Georgia, some poll workers were told to take voting machines home after training; Georgia flag artwork was uploaded right before the election; and other unwise and insecure procedures were followed.

10. Go visit the polling place at the end of the day and see how secure it is. We had reports recently of machines left in the polling place unattended.

11. Felony watch: In some states, IT IS A FELONY for technicians who are not sworn elections officials to touch the vote database in any way, shape or form after votes have been cast. In fact, if you look at Chapter 13 of Black Box Voting, the San Luis Obispo incident was probably illegal (Diebold tech Sophia Lee was tied to a live vote database that appeared on the Internet five hours before the polls closed).

12. Watch for statistical anomalies. Look at everything. Time is of the essence, as these analyses take some time and there are only a few days before the election is certified.

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. Kick

:kick:

[jmags]

2. Bev, you're the greatest.

keek

[Champion Jack]

3. Kicked again

[ParanoidPat]

4. My turn to kick this.

:kick:

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. Georgia....Georgia

a song of you,
Comes as sweet and clear,
As moonlight through the pines.

Other arms, Reach out to me,
Other Eeyes, Smile tendery,

Still in peaceful dreams I see
The road leads back to you
Georgia, Georgia, no peace I find

Just an old sweet song,
Keeps Georgia on my mind,

[dusty64]

6. Kick!

:kick:

[FlaGranny]

7. I hope this is not a dumb question, but

how do you pick up wireless signals during or after the election? Don't you need special equipment to do that?

[BevHarris]

8. Yes. That is a special op for geeks.

A fun one, though.

[RedEagle]

14. Wireless

Finding wireless transmissions would take a spectrum analyzer, or something else dedicated to that particular type of broadcast. I believe others have indicated previously that in the computer world, devices exist to detect this.

In broadcast, you would use a spectrum analyzer, which most stations should have, at least, over-the-air stations. Most likely at the transmitter. Expensive piece of equipment. But a station looking to do more than on location stand-up, might have some fun with it.

However, and I'm just going on information from people I know, I'm not an expert in the field, if the signal is being sent spread spectrum, it's going to be hard to see.
(http://www.sss-mag.com/ss.html)

As my sources say, it's at low power levels, tends to just look like "noise," and may never transmit at one frequency long enough to see. Even a spectrum analyzer can hardly see it, it looks like "grass" in the bottom of the display, jumps around the band during communication, etc. Just read the site, the military uses it because it's hard to detect.

Yikes, the more I read the more I believe any form of wireless should be banned from voting systems.

Now, spread spectrum may be more sophisticated than where the average voting company is at, given what has been discovered about some of their programming, etc., so just looking for normal wireless-type signals might be revealing.

But the spread spectrum potential is really something. "Technology is our friend" - not when it could be used like this.

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. I wonder if a wifi connection on a laptop...

would detect the connection? I know noting about radio so this is speculation on my part. But if it could...couldn't you see what was going on in the machines?

[bearfan454]

37. That very well might be something.

Does anyone know how to do this ?

[ParanoidPat]

53. "War Driving"

From Google

Sort by relevance Sorted by date

'War driving' hobby active in Maryville area
Maryville Daily Forum, MO - 19 hours ago
... wireless internet connections instead of food. War driving appears to
be an up and coming activity in our area. Armed with a lap top ...

City updates address
Salisbury Post, NC - Feb 29, 2004
... your town. Now I know that we will, fairly soon. We look forward to
the walking tour and the Civil War driving tour.". Crowell said ...

Machiavelli Lives
Guerilla News Network - Feb 25, 2004
... Kelly promptly made medical and transport contacts in Jordan and spent the forty
two day war driving up and down the Amman-Baghdad highway, with the bombs ...

Village connects with patrons using Internet
The UCLA Daily Bruin, CA - Feb 24, 2004
... To encourage the growth of demand and to sidestep access fees, participants in
an underground movement known as "war driving" post the locations of free ...

Serial Peacemaker Jailed; Bush and Blair Nobel Nominated, ...
Common Dreams - Feb 23, 2004
... Kelly promptly made medical and transport contacts in Jordan and spent the forty
two day war driving up and down the Amman-Baghdad highway, with the bombs ...

Book Review: How Secure Is Your Wireless Network?
netsecurity.about.com, United States - Feb 23, 2004
... wi-fi security. • Chapter on "war driving" discusses hardware, software,
tools, techniques and the ethical issues. Guide Review ...

WAR DRIVING: A CRIME ON THE RISE
BankInfoSecurity.com, United States - Feb 20, 2004
It's called "War Driving" and happens when thieves break into certain
computers and steal personal information. The Federal Bureau ...

War Driving: A Crime On The Rise
WSOCtv.com, NC - Feb 18, 2004
... aware of. It's called "War Driving" and happens when thieves break into
certain computers and steal personal information. The Federal ...

Honeypots gone wireless to snare WiFi villains
Ars Technica - Feb 16, 2004
... We have discussed the ease of which war flying and war driving can be conducted and
that it is pretty safe in terms of being able to get away with hacking WiFi ...

Book Review: Maximum Wireless Security
netsecurity.about.com, United States - Feb 13, 2004
... It then covers wireless threats such as the ability to crack WEP encryption keys,
war-driving, packet sniffing, denial-of-service attacks and viruses. ...


New! Get the latest news on "war driving" with Google News Alerts.

[Andy_Stephenson]

66. So...

it can be done. Great!

There is no way to fight this...it gets worse all the time. Someone, please, tell me to buck up.

[leftchick]

9. kick...

:kick:

[BevHarris]

10. This just in from Georgia -- probably not important, but...

There is apparently a question about the Georgia state flag on the ballot. They decided to send out image files of the flags. These were sent on CD and uploaded into the county server, from there onto the touch screens.

These were most likely benign, but they do illustrate a security problem. You can embed a virus in a graphic. Such a virus could launch a program or trigger a .dll file. Right? So, once again, we've got a last-minute addition of files into the system, which are not certified (but have a very kind and gentle explanation). Nevertheless, this is a very undesirable procedure.

Bev

[SaddenedDem]

11. Can you provide backup to these allegations?

It would be nice if we could work based on FACT and not allegations.

Those of us in Georgia would like to get officials to check on this, but with nothing but a internet message board post, it's difficult to direct the officials to fact.

[BevHarris]

12. Yes. Send me your real name and phone number by email

And I'll route you to the source after obtaining his permission. And a little courtesy would be much appreciated. We are all in this together.

Bev

[Andy_Stephenson]

13. Bev always works based on FACT...

as a matter of FACT...if she can't back it up she won't make the claim. You should know that. We are all working on the same goal. Keep your eye on the prize. Paper not Vapor.

[ParanoidPat]

19. A simple Google search for......

.....virus, image files gets 721,000 hits. Take your pick. It's not just the image files that are the problem. If the CD that they're loaded from is made auto executable to automatically load the images who knows what else may be loading during the process. If ANYTHING is loaded just prior to an election it bears close examination IMHO. Also check out steganography while you're there. (118,000 hits) The art of hiding programs and data in images. :(

Are you in Georgia? Did you vote this morning? Was there an image or images on the screen depicting flags as part of a ballot question? To be perfectly fair SaddendDem, Bev did preface her remarks with "probably not important".
Can you confirm that the images are on the ballots? :) Thanks.

Hi Bev, Andy and all. :hi: Good morning!

security.itworld.com - New virus is first to infect image files
... com. Title, New virus is first to infect image files. Type, News.
Source, ITworld.com 06/13/2002. Summary, A new virus can, for the
first ...
security.itworld.com/4359/020613imagevirus/ - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

security.itworld.com - New virus is first to infect image files
... New virus is first to infect image files. ITworld.com 6/13/02 Sam
Costello, IDG News Service, Boston Bureau A new virus can, for ...
security.itworld.com/4359/020613imagevirus/page_1.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages
< More results from security.itworld.com >

Image File Guide
... Image File Guide. I get questions about ... send them. By default AOL compresses
image files and sends them to you as .art files. They claim ...
www.worldstart.com/guides/imagefile.htm - 25k - Feb 29, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Virus Can Hide in JPEG Image Files -- Imaging Security Virus ...
Virus Can Hide in JPEG Image Files -- W32/Perrun is the first virus known
to infect JPEG image files. ADVISOR. EXPERT ADVICE & KNOW-HOW. ...
securityadvisor.info/doc/09958 - Similar pages

Computer viruses - E. Kaspersky's book
... The infected files or image files of infected diskettes should be e-mailed to anti-virus
program developers, or at least by conventional mail on diskettes. ...
www.viruslist.com/eng/viruslistbooks.html?id=96 - 17k - Feb 29, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Anti-Virus @ UGA
... F-Secure Anti-Virus may be included when software is replicated using
disk image files. Every product installation does however ...
www.virus.uga.edu/fsavimage.html - 10k - Feb 29, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

IDG.com.sg - Article
... VIRUS McAfee: New virus is first to infect image files By Sam Costello
IDG News Service, Boston Bureau 17-06-2002. BOSTON - A new ...
www.idg.com.sg/ idgwww.nsf/0/E7188612FA07C51B48256BDB000543CE?OpenDocument - 17k - Feb 29, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

vnunet.com Virus worms its way into image files
... The first ever virus to infect JPEG image files has been developed, according to
antivirus software company McAfee Security, a division of Network Associates. ...
nl2.vnunet.com/News/1132633 - 50k - Cached - Similar pages

Virus Algorithm Analysis
... The infected files or image files of infected diskettes should better be emailed
to anti-virus programs developers, or at least with conventional mail on ...
www.avp.ch/avpve/methods/analysis.stm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

McAfee: New virus is first to infect image files - Computerworld
... Home > Browse Topics > Security > Story McAfee:
New virus is first to infect image files, ...
www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/ security/story/0,10801,71968,00.html - 62k - Cached - Similar pages

[Jose Diablo]

20. Yes the flag images are on the touch screen n/t

[ParanoidPat]

24. Thanks!

Now all we have to confirm is how they got there. :evilgrin:

Then we can start asking serious questions about whether anyone examined them before they were distributed and what security measures were used to make sure no one changed or substituted files after they were distributed. (checksums etc.) One can only hope. :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

25. See post 22

things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.

[Andy_Stephenson]

21. Good morning Pat...

always nice to see you. :hi:

[ParanoidPat]

23. Well at least for some it is!

:eyes: :evilgrin:

:kick:

[Zhade]

104. It's called "Google".

NT!

[madfloridian]

108. I suggest you go to Bev's site before being saying that to her.

She does not work on "allegations."

[Jose Diablo]

16. Just got back from voting in prec 147, Georgia

The Diebold touch screens are 'daisy' chained to what looks like a server box. The server box is a black suitcase affair sitting on a table at the end of the touch screen line-up.

If the touch screens boxes are supposed to be isolated from the prec server during voting, this is not happening in prec 147.

[Andy_Stephenson]

17. Did you post this at BBV as well?

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/blackboxvotingcgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID59&conf=DCConfID6

Please do so if not...

[Jose Diablo]

18. Yes n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. Glitches reported in Fulton County,

where some of the electronic voting machines would allow voters to only cast ballots on the nonbinding state flag referendum, but not in presidential primary.

“We had machine problems when we first started,” said John H. Watson, poll manager at St. Luke’s Episcopal Church on Peachtree Street.

“Wouldn’t anything turn up on the computers, nothing but the flag,” Watson said.

He said the glitch was remedied after a call to the elections office, and only two of the approximately 90 voters to cast ballots by 10 a.m. encountered the problem.



Strange turn...after we know the pics were uploaded.

[Jose Diablo]

26. It was strange on the flag vote

I first selected the 2001 flag then got to the final point of actually casting the vote. I then noticed the image of the 2001 flag contained the stars and bars at the very bottom of the image, so I decided to change my selection. I didn't cast the vote, but rather clicked on the voting issue and it brought me back to the flag selection portion of the selection.

The strange thing was, there was not box to select to the 2003 flag and the box for the 2001 flag had a check. I thought about what to do for a few minutes then clicked on the checked box for the 2001 flag and presto, the 2001 box became unselected and the 2003 flag box appeared.

I guess it tallied to vote properly when I cast the vote at the end of the sequence, but it was confusing on how to change a selection before actually casting the vote.

I would call this a confusion factor cause by unclear program sequence to the change the selection prior to final cast. I am not sure how another voter would figure out how to sequence the change, but it wasn't intuitively clear how to make the change in selection prior to a final cast of the ballot.

[Alpharetta]

33. The colors were way off on the LCD's.

It was nice to see images of the flags up for vote.

But the images were washed out and not color calibrated. It caught me off guard and for a second I wasn't sure which flag I had already decided to vote for.

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. From Greg in Fulton Co.

"I voted in Fulton county this morning am concerned that I did not get the correct ballot. I selected a nuetral party affiliation, and voted for the flag but was unable to vote for a presidential candidate. I figured that it was because I did not select a party affliation, but after reading about the voting machine malfunctions and I'm wondering if I got the proper ballot."

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. From Mark in Georgia

"My voting machine froze for about 30 seconds while recording my vote. I am very concerned that my vote was not properly recorded and there is no paper record of my vote either!"

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

41. From Linda in Henry County

"I voted in Henry county this morning at 0700am. The line was about 10 deep. Once I checked in, it took all of two minutes to vote. The representatives did have a problem setting some of the voting cards, but only one person had the voting card setting equipment."

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

42. From Lois in Dekalb Co.

"Voted in Dekalb, four of the five machines did not read the card."

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. From Ed in Lilburn

"Lilburn. There were some problems with getting the voting card set up. They had 2 people with the card setting equipment, but only one was working. I am very concerned that there is no paper trail due to the issues with getting the cards set up. How do I know my vote was properly counted? The card could have been set wrong due to the faulty equipment and there is no way to verify correct counts."

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

46. From Larry in Henry County

I was at my polling place in Henry County at 6:45am and there were already 20 people in line. A majority of the 20 people in front of me had problems with their voting cards including myself. I asked for a Republican ballot but the card was coded for a democrat ballot, took it back and asked for it to be correctly coded, but when I took the second card to the voting machine, it was now coded for the non-partisan ballot, so I took it back for a third time and they finally got the voting card card correctly coded and I was able to complete my vote.

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

47. From Sammy in California

"I can't believe the polls out here in CA aren't working - so much for our high tech industry. Leave it to the Government to improve something so well nobody can use it now."

waiting on further clarification

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

76. More information from Shammy

In San Diego County - Carlsbad, CA

the poll workers didn't know how to use the computer - they were saying
they didn't have a keyboard for the voting machine...the computer has a
touch pad screen that doesn't even use a keyboard

The problems with the voting machines are widespread throughout San Diego County.

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. Dana in Georgia reports

"WAS EXTEMELY UPSET AFTER CASTING MY VOTE THIS MORNING BECAUSE I DID NOT GET TO VOTE FOR MY CHOICE OF DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. ONCE I VOTED FOR THE FLAG AND THE SPLOST MY BALLOT WAS CAST. APPARENTLY, THERE WERE THREE DIFFERENT BALLOTS, ONE WITHOUT THE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT. THE POLL WORKERS WERE NOT AWARE THAT THIS THIRD BALLOT EXISTED. AT LEAST 15 PEOPLE DID NOT GET TO VOTE FOR THEIR CHOICE FOR DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT AND I THINK THIS IS HORRIBLE."


[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

56. Jeff reporting from Georgia

I was fourth in line to vote this morning at Virginia-Highland Baptist Church on Virginia Avenue. Within minutes it was obvious to the first 5 or 6 voters that the touch screen voting machines only offered the flag referendum to vote on and then said we were done. There was no ballot to vote for the Democratic candidates! Voting was halted and poll workers were at a loss as to what to do. One was on the phone to report the problem, another got out the instruction book. I do not know if or when the problem was resolved, but it was obvious that the machines had not been tested before the polls opened to make sure they were operating correctly!

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

57. Linda from east Cobb

I voted at 7am at Davis Elementary School in East Cobb. Was in and out with five minutes. It took longer to wait for her to find my card because they kept sticking together than the rest of it. When are they going to computerize the check-in.

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. Julie in Georgia reporting in

I just went to go vote, and for the second election in a row, I only saw one thing to vote for before my card got spit back at me and I was done. When I went in Novemeber, I only got to vote on the board of education. I thought "huh, that's funny...I could have sworn there were more things to vote for", but I didn't know for sure, so I didn't say anything. It was my first time voting in Georgia... maybe they didn't vote on as many things as Ohioans?

This time, I came there specifically to vote in the presidential primary. When I first jammed my card into that machine, I got the screen on which to vote for the flag. I picked a flag, hit "Next". It showed my choice as being selected, and I had two options: a smaller, blue "Review Ballot" button or a big, green "Cast Ballot" button. It said "when you hit cast ballot, your vote will be final". I thought "Okay, I've finalized my voting for the flag" and hit "Cast Ballot". The machine spits out my card to me and the touch screen goes back to the "insert card to begin" screen.

I stare at the screen and think "What? why didn't the presidential primary ballot come up?" I stick my card back into the machine, and it spits it back out: "Invalid card". I go get the polling officer to ask what happened. She said "awww...did you click 'Cast Ballot'? That ends your vote and you're done. a lot of people make that mistake. You need to select 'Review Ballot'" to which I said, "Yes, I made a mistake. can you invalidate this vote and let me do it again the right way?" "No, it's final." At this point, I got really angry.

I didn't get to vote in the presidental primary because of a usability error. What the is wrong with this? I wanted to vote. I knew who I wanted to vote for. I realized the error and wanted to fix it. The current system did not allow me to vote. I'm a computer science Ph.D. student at Georgia Tech, specializing in usability design no less. I made an error, and there was nothing they could do about it. What happens to people who are worse with computers than me, or that don't realize there's something wrong with the system? "This happens all the time."

After speaking with the polling officer for 20 minutes or so, I'm convinced that there might have been an error on my card. That they gave me the wrong one (such as a non-partisan card). Supposedly the first thing to come up on the screen should have been the presidential primary ballot and NOT the Georgia Flag vote. But we had no way to verify this. She told me "well, when you come vote in November, you come to me and I'll help you through it and make sure you get it right. THAT'S the important election." I stared at her incredulously. To me, this election was pretty important too. I've been closely following the candidates for months. And now the only way to make sure I don't make this error again is to have someone looking over my shoulder when I vote? Does she need to do this with everyone to ensure that everyone's voice is heard?

I'm angry. I'm already working on writing a letter voicing my complaint and plan on writing a letter to the AJC. The fiasco in Florida in 2000 came down to a usability error. People didn't get to vote for who they wanted to vote for. The presidential election was possibly thrown by this, which affects the entire world. Why are we letting things happen this carelessly? What can be done about it?

[e-mail]

[Jose Diablo]

61. Yep, they gave you a independent candidate voting card

Wouldn't be a need to vote in the primary if the card you had wasn't programed as declared rep or dem. The poll worker made the 'mistake'.

[Andy_Stephenson]

63. San Diego more trouble

Here in San Diego county, in many locations the Precinct Control Module (PCM) which is used to program the voter "smart cards", failed to start up properly. I went to a local precinct to observe, and witnessed this problem firsthand. They also had a problem with one of the TSx voting units, which was unable to complete its "zero tape" (they tried three times, it would partially print and then crash in the middle of it). They had to take that machine off line.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=176

[Andy_Stephenson]

64. California trouble

Machines are not working all over. I went to the Registrar of Voters on Ruffin Road to vote absentee on paper. People were coming from all over, even from down the street where machines where down. Even so, people were being persuaded to vote electronically because it's faster. Were polls ever "down" with paper ballots? http://www.blackboxvoting.org/


source: http://www.verifiedvoting.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=177

[Andy_Stephenson]

74. More trouble in Ca.

In several software and hardware tests, critics have shown it's easy to jam microchip-embedded smart cards into machines, or alter and delete some votes -- in some cases simply by ripping out wires. They've cracked passwords to gain access to computer servers and showed that some systems relying on Microsoft Windows lacked up-to-date security patches that should have been downloaded from the Internet.

http://www.local6.com/news/2889845/detail.html

[Andy_Stephenson]

82. Ebeck in Ga reports.

Why is it that I have to prove at least 3 times that I am who I say I am at the polls (fill out information verification form, show driver's license & then get checked off on a master roll of some kind) but there is no way for ME to verify that my vote was properly recorded? Even the Diebold machines at my bank can issue an anonymous, secure reciept in a fraction of a second.

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

91. Artis in Georgia reporting in

I had a terrible experience. My experience was very similar to Julie Kientz (above). The poll workers did not know how to give me a ballot that had both the flag and the presidential candidates. I advised them of the problem and they could not fix it. Me and several other people were instructed to come back and vote later. When I called the Secretary of States Office I was told that I could not vote again. There should be a way to preview your ballot before you even begin, to make sure you have the correct ballot. The system needs improvement. I encourage everyone who had problems voting to contact Cathy Cox at 404 656 2881 and to call the headquaters of their candidate to let them know what happened. Don't let them rob us of our vote and our voice. Speak out.

[e-mail]

[Andy_Stephenson]

96. Shane from Ga reports

"If Edwards loses today in Georgia he can blame the poll workers who didn't tell us to pick the Democratic ballot to vote for the Presidential Primary. I got the non-partisan ballot and only got to vote for the flag. Red, White, & Blue flag and Edwards were my choices. Too bad I only got to choose one of the two."

[e-mail]

[still_one]

117. If that is true

After Florida, it is up to the voter to DEMAND the right ballot

[ParanoidPat]

118. How does a voter 'demand the right ballot'.....

.....when the poll workers don't even know that there are more than one? :evilfrown:

There's something rotten in Georgia and it ain't peaches. :(

[ParanoidPat]

27. PAGING CATHY COX!

From CBS NEWS.com

On Super Tuesday, E-Voting Jitters

SAN JOSE, Calif., March 2, 2004

(AP) Electronic voting made its debut in cities and towns from Maryland to California on Tuesday as election officials beefed up security for the record number of voters expected to cast E-ballots for the first time.

Scattered technical problems were reported in the early hours as voters in 10 states, including California, New York and Ohio, went to the Super Tuesday polls to choose a Democratic presidential nominee and decide primary contests for congressional and state races.

One Maryland polling place had to switch to paper ballots Tuesday because its new electronic voting machines didn't work. State elections supervisor Linda Lamone said technicians expected to have the problem fixed quickly.

<Snip>

Voters also had to start out using paper ballots in Georgia's Effingham County. Chris Riggall, a spokesman for Secretary of State Cathy Cox, said county officials apparently forgot to program the encoders — devices used to tell ballot access cards, which voters insert into the machines, what ballot to display.

A security issue also arose in Georgia.

Georgia Tech student Peter Sahlstrom said he found 10 Diebold terminals sitting unprotected in the lobby of the school's student center Monday. Sahlstrom, 22, photographed the machines in their unlocked cases.

<More>

[nostamj]

28. "forgot to program the encoders"

forgot to program the encoders ????

[Andy_Stephenson]

29. I'm sorry...Ms. Cox

Will be out of the office on March 2nd. She will be returning on March 3rd. Please leave a message after the tone.

[ParanoidPat]

32. LOL!

Figures! :eyes:

Cathy, READ THIS!

:kick:BLACK BOX VOTING - Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century:kick:

Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
Chapter 6
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9*
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12
Chapter 13*
Chapter 14
Chapter 15
Chapter 16
Appendix
Footnotes
Index

* graphics, allow time to load

Requires free Adobe Acrobat Reader to view. :)

[Alpharetta]

30. bad experience w/ machine in Georgia today

I voted on an electronic machine today

Hated it.

I declared as a Democrat and they gave me a yellow card to stick in the machine.

The machine called it an invalid card.

They gave me another from the stack of Democratic cards.

The machine called it an invalid card.

They gave me another.

The machine called it an invalid card.

One of the poll workers produced a yellow card from a source different than the stack for Democrats.

The machine accepted the card and permitted me to vote. I handed the card back to her.

No receipt. Just a little "I voted" sticker.

The experience did not inspire confidence.

[Andy_Stephenson]

31. Bev...where is the memo...

the one quoted on CNN...this is important. Call it a gut feeling.

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. here is something interesting

http://diebold.datengrab.biz/lists/rcr.w3archive/200003.dir/msg00005.html

Could the AV-TS Suite software be made to recognize that a smart card is not inserted correctly and therefore prompt the user to remove the card and re-insert it correctly, rather than try to read it and tell you its an invalid card?

When using 3.12.4 on the PollBook or the Ballot Station software, I can stick a card in backwards and depending on your position in the program, the system brings up an Admin keypad or tells me to remove an invalid card.

How could I possibly insert a card upside down? I was working with the proto AV-TS ballot station (really a blue/white unit in a different case), which had the smart card reader installed upside down. Nobody had passed this info along, and it was not obvious just by looking at it, so when we couldn't get it to recognize a manager/admin card, we thought there was some software problem, or perhaps a different password code, or a smart card problem .

When at an Admin function screen:
I insert a manager card in upside down,
the system brings up an Admin keypad screen,
I enter the password, and
the system tells me I can't gain access rights, Retry or Cancel.
I then think I have a bad manager card or the access code is somehow different.
I try other manager cards/admin cards to no avail.
There is no indication that the card was not inserted properly.

When in the ballot station software introduction screen:
the system prompts me to insert a voter card.
I insert the voter card in upside down,
the system states it is reading the voter card,
then the system tells me to remove an invalid card.
I then think that the smart card didn't program properly, or was already used, or the card is bad.
I try other programmed cards, all to no avail.
There is no indication that the card was not inserted properly.

[Andy_Stephenson]

36. ooo ooo and this gem

http://diebold.datengrab.biz/lists/rcr.w3archive/200110.dir/msg00007.html

"If we truly want unassisted voting by the blind, you'll have to train every blind voter how to use the terminal and let them practice so they'll know how to use it every year. Otherwise they'll have to be assisted each time they use it. "


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hintz
To: Bugs List (E-mail)
Sent: August 23, 2000 6:21 PM
Subject: Smart Cards & New Table Top Card Readers


I am doing training here in the City of Barrie, Canada, and I have encountered with the new table top card readers sent here, that they cannot read some of the different smart cards that we have. So far I have only been able to get the square smart card with the shape of an L able to read. Once I am able to get into the Poll Book software with this card, I can create voter cards with any of the other cards that I have, and they work fine in the AVTS units. Is there anyone else that has encountered these problems???

Jeff Hintz
Global Election Systems

http://diebold.datengrab.biz/lists/bugtrack.w3archive/200008.dir/msg00022.html

[Jose Diablo]

38. The yellow cards

I am sure I do not like the idea of recieving a different colored card when I declared my party.

All the cards should be externally identical.

Voter declarations should be private to observers watching the vote process.

[never cry wolf]

45. I agree with you

Do you have to be a registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary? If not, why couldn't they just have all the cards the same and have the first screen ask you which ballot you want.

Actually, maybe the first screen should be any non-partisan issues such as referendums. I don't like the idea of the information being available that XX% of Dems voted for flag #1, etc. Statistical voting info on non-partisan issues should not be available on a partisan basis.

[BevHarris]

51. Holy shit. That's bad

Review memo from CNN yesterday -- don't know where that post is. In it, they describe that people can burn voter cards all day long. This is NOT sounding good.

Taking the card from Dem pile -- doesn't work. Taking it from another pile -- it does work. What county are you in and what are the demographics of your precinct? Which prez candidate would your precinct be likely to favor, in your (admittedly unscientific) opinion?

[nostamj]

52. here's the memo you refer to....

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/smartcardmemo.html

"Note that distributing this software is extremely dangerous. Our smart card format has absolutely no security, so if someone were to get a copy of this software and a reader, they could stand at the ballot station and quietly burn new voter cards all day. Of course that's also the case with PollBook.exe, but a notebook computer is a little harder to smuggle into a polling place, and besides most of our staff has trouble setting up a poll book, let alone outsiders. The Card Manager (Spyrus) is actually simple to use. Anyway, I can see the cover of USA Today in my head. Consider everyone warned."

the "My Posts" feature is a wonderful thing!

this is looking like quite a ride.... :hi:

[Andy_Stephenson]

54. Most of the problems so far have to do with

the smart cards and the flag issue.

[SaddenedDem]

69. You're making an issue out of something you shouldn't

Those people who got only the flag ballot made the mistake, not the machines.

In Georgia, if one wishes to vote in a primary, they MUST declare either the Democrat or Republican ballot is desired. If they declare independent, they get ONLY the flag ballot (statewide) and local referendums.

That is VOTER error, NOT MACHINE ERROR.

[ParanoidPat]

75. Please re-read the posts.......

......From post #46, I asked for a Republican ballot but the card was coded for a democrat ballot, took it back and asked for it to be correctly coded, but when I took the second card to the voting machine, it was now coded for the non-partisan ballot, so I took it back for a third time and they finally got the voting card card correctly coded and I was able to complete my vote.

From post #48 APPARENTLY, THERE WERE THREE DIFFERENT BALLOTS, ONE WITHOUT THE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT. THE POLL WORKERS WERE NOT AWARE THAT THIS THIRD BALLOT EXISTED.

From post #56 Voting was halted and poll workers were at a loss as to what to do. One was on the phone to report the problem, another got out the instruction book.

If he POLL WORKERS don't know :wtf: is going on how do you expect the voters to know?

The problem with using so called 'smart cards' is you can't see :wtf: is on it beforehand! If you've never voted on this equipment before how are YOU supposed to know what to do in what order? :shrug: :eyes:

[SaddenedDem]

84. This is simply incorrect

And if you understood how it works in Georgia, you would not be making this mistake.

There aren't 3 ballots.

There are only 2 ballots. A Democratic ballot or a Republican ballot.

When you walk into the polling place, there are 2 pieces of paper you must fill out and sign - WHITE for Democrat, BLUE for Republican

Based on that piece of paper, you are given a voter card pre-programmed for the appropriate ballot.

The republican ballot does NOT CONTAIN THE DEM CANDIDATES. It only contains the FLAG vote (statewide) and any LOCAL referendums up for a vote.

In some counties they may ONLY GET THE FLAG BALLOT if they didn't specifically ask for the DEMOCRATIC BALLOT.

[Jose Diablo]

87. My prec was different

We only got a white form, to check dem, rep, or indp and then sign. As you fill the white card the poll worker verifies your ID and then the voter master registration card list. The form you sign is compared to the master reg card and a code number is transfered from the master card to the form. The poll worker then checks your name off on another set of sheets with all registered voters listed.

You then take the form to the next point in line to get a smart card.
Based on the check mark, a smart card is programed either rep or dem or indp along with the code that matched a code written on the white declaration sheet when the name was verified against the registration cards.

The voter then takes the smart card to the Diebold touch screen and slides it into the machine.

After voting the card is ejected. You take the smart card to the exit poll worker who takes the smart card and then gives you a stick um that says "I voted today".

[Stephanie]

99. Why are they programming your code number onto the card?

Doesn't that violate the secret ballot?

[ParanoidPat]

88. Well, I guess that there's NO PROBLEM in Georgia then.....

.....I might as well just fuggetaboutit! :eyes:

It's the VOTER CONFUSION issue that needs to be exposed and addressed.

Georgia sounds like the Butterfly Ballot redux. :evilgrin:

We'll just leave it up to you since you seem to have a handle on it. :)

[Jose Diablo]

90. Well, I think there is a problem in Georgia

I do not like the idea of no paper verification. I also dislike the idea of closed proprietary software for the machines counting the vote.

As for the human checks and processes, there seems to be a lot of variations precinct by precinct. I would think a standard human process could be developed and enforced on a state wide basis.

[SaddenedDem]

93. Of course there is

There are numerous problems in Georgia. No one said there wasn't.

What I was trying to do was save people from embarassment when discussing an issue they didn't understand.

Forgive me for trying to get to the REAL issues.

Of course, if you really hope to make a difference, you'll join me on Thursday afternoon at the Senate Rules Committee and testify why you want Tom Price's SB500, calling for a voter verified paper ballot in Georgia, out of committee and on the senate floor for a vote:

Greetings Georgians for Voter Choice, and a Transparent and Auditable Election System:

The State and Local Government Operations Committee will meet this Thursday, March 4th at 4:00 pm in LOB 310.

The Committee will again take up consideration of SB-500, to require that DRE voting machines "produce a permanent paper record with a manual audit capacity". Committee members have requested a demonstration of the existing Diebold machine and of the Tru-Vote machine (which does provide for the production of voter verified paper ballots).

The room will accomodate about 120 persons. It is important that we fill the seats! We must show the members of this Committee how important passage of SB-500 is to our community and the people of Georgia. Please mark your calendars, take the afternoon off from work, mark your friends' calendars, have them arrange to get off as well and plan to join us there.

To educate yourself about SB-500 and the issues surrounding "faith-based voting", to learn why we believe a voter verified paper audit trail of our election system is so important, please link to:
http://www.voterchoice.org/auditableballots.php

[Jose Diablo]

94. I'd love too

Got to be in Montgomery tomorrow, but Thursday 3/4/04 in hot lanta capitol building room LOB 310 at 4:00 pm. You bet. See ya there.

[SaddenedDem]

95. Cool!

See ya there!

[RedEagle]

97. Tru Vote? I don't think so

Saddened Dem,

I think Tru Vote gives you a piece of paper that you take away with you. Then you phone in or something and it confirms that you "voted," but I'm pretty sure it does not confirm the votes you made.

Tru Vote was mentioned to me a long time ago, and their system maybe could be made to do voter verified paper ballots, but as I understand it, you really don't get to verify you vote. You just call in later and it says you voted.

If you are counting on a vvpb demonstration from them, you might not get the real thing.

[SaddenedDem]

98. I'm sorry, but you are incorrect

I have been to multiple TruVote demonstrations.

In fact, the activists in Georgia have their own TruVote machine to do demos.

They print a TRUE voter verified paper ballot and drop it into a locked ballot box once it is confirmed as a true representation of the vote.

[SaddenedDem]

92. Is that really necessary?

Seriously.....I was simply trying to explain why this is NOT an issue. Attempting to prevent you embarassing yourself.

Your behavior is as atrocious as that republican who was voting DEM today.

[ParanoidPat]

103. SaddenedDem

.....If you READ THE REPORTS coming in from all over Georgia, THE POLL WORKERS are allegedly giving voters FALSE INFORMATION and/or the WRONG BALLOTS. They don't seem to know what the f#*% they're doing. It IS an issue that MUST be dealt with.

I'm DAMN PROUD of the work I've done in California helping to educate my representatives from my local precinct all the way up to my Secretary of State. They all seem to now 'get it' and are actively working to improve the security concerns. I'm also DAMN PROUD of the work I've done educating my State and Federal Representatives.

Please go back and re-read every post that I've written on this thread and tell us all exactly what mis-statements I've made.

Post #4 I kicked the thread

Post #53 I posted links to "war driving" with no comment

Post #19 I posted links to how viruses can be put in image files.
I also stated that "It's not just the image files that are the problem. If the CD that they're loaded from is made auto executable to automatically load the images who knows what else may be loading during the process. If ANYTHING is loaded just prior to an election it bears close examination IMHO. (Note the IMHO! Does your opinion differ on that point? :) ) I asked 3 questions of you which you declined to answer. In the interim, others have.

Post#24 I stated, "Now all we have to confirm is how they got there. (Were they loaded off a CD and when? That could be important from a security standpoint.)

Then we can start asking serious questions about whether anyone examined them before they were distributed and what security measures were used to make sure no one changed or substituted files after they were distributed. (checksums etc.) One can only hope." Is there something here you disagree with? :shrug:

Post #23 Self explanatory! (I'm sure Diebold wishes I'd go away!)

Post #27 Posted news article with no comment.

Post #32 Posted links to Bevs book as a kick with no comment.

Post #75 Posted 3 other peoples comments on their experiences at the polls. Commented, "If (t)he POLL WORKERS don't know :wtf: is going on how do you expect the voters to know?

The problem with using so called 'smart cards' is you can't see :wtf: is on it beforehand! If you've never voted on this equipment before how are YOU supposed to know what to do in what order?" I stand behind that statement.

Post #88 I responded to your comments ascribing meaning to my posts that just wasn't there.

Post #49 Posted Avi Rubin 'sound byte' with comment on when to use it. I stand behind that statement too.

Post #59 Posted news article about Ohio problems with comment to Joanne98 re; tabulation methodology. Still researching that.

Post #68 Posted news article about Maryland problems with no comment.

That's everything I've posted on this thread. Please tell me why you feel that I've somehow 'embarrassed' myself and stop trying to put words in my mouth. I've said nothing to be embarrassed about. This is the second time this week you've tried to ascribe meaning to my posts that I have not put there myself. Please stop. :)

Discuss the MESSAGE not the MESSENGER! :evilgrin:

[Zhade]

106. You've done nothing wrong.

You have every reason to be proud of your efforts, and no reason to be embarrassed. Your posts on this thread are very helpful, and I for one appreciate them.

[SaddenedDem]

107. Perhaps then, you'd like to include these talking points

Chris Riggall, a spokesman for Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox, said special election voter certification forms have always been printed on white paper. Republican forms have always been blue, Democratic white and non-partisan green.

"We did prepare special signage for the counties to display that points out there are three choices in voter certificates and encouraged counties to display them," Riggall said. "Knowing what we know now about some voters being confused by the certificates would we have picked out a new color for the special-election flag-choice-only certificate; we always learn something from every election."

Riggall emphasized that the problems are the result of human error, not the electronic touch-screen voting machines used in Georgia. The electronic machines have been criticized over recent months by people who believe that the machines can be fraudulently manipulated to alter votes.

"Irrespective of platform, you've got an awful lot of people involved in executing the election process and unfortunately some of them make mistakes," Riggall said. "Training is the key to minimizing those mistakes.


http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/election/0304nation/02votingforms.html

[ParanoidPat]

110. Thanks for posting this.....

I just LOVE that name! RIGG ALL! LOL :evilgrin:

I also like the subtle 'disclaimer', "We did prepare special signage for the counties to display that points out there are three choices in voter certificates and encouraged counties to display them,"

Why not REQUIRE them? Or at least require the poll workers to READ them. Many reports of poll workers not knowing about the three different ballots! :shrug:

And I guess that they're TECHNICALLY correct that the encoders are "not the electronic touch-screen voting machines" but by many accounts polls had the machines down for hours in some cases because the encoders couldn't be brought up by the poll workers.

These people running the elections need to be removed at all cost!

[SaddenedDem]

111. We're working on it

Cathy Cox had a complaint filed against her today in her handling of an investigation (referral to the DA to take over the investigation).

I will venture to say she'll have several ethics complaints against her by the end of this week.

[Andy_Stephenson]

113. That is music to my ears.

Cathy is a real ^&%$ @$$ Way to go Dem!!!!

Now If I can win against Sam Reed.

[Zhade]

109. See post #105. I think there's more to it than just voter error.

NT!

[SaddenedDem]

112. Saw it....changes nothing

Except that the elections supervisor broke the law for "Ben."

[Andy_Stephenson]

114. You want his email address?

Things like this should be catalogued...and followed up on

[SaddenedDem]

65. My precinct as well

Since I have been a vocal local opponent of these machines, I asked a poll worker to accompany me to the voting booth to observe that I did nothing inappropriate.

He handed me the encoder card, already encoded from several scattered on the table, then walked with me to the booth.

I inserted the card, began to vote, realize I forgot to vote for a local referendum, he assisted me to get back to the review ballot screen, I placed my vote, hit the Cast Ballot button and the yellow card popped out of the machine.

I stepped away, just as a group of high school students (age appeared to be HS) walked up to the machine next to mine. My poll worker took the VOTER CARD I USED, placed it in the machine, brought up the ballot, and demonstrated to the students how to vote on the machine.

The card was NOT REPROGRAMMED. The ballot on the screen said DEM at the top, it was the EXACT SAME BALLOT I had just obtained.

He cast ballots, voted for the DEM presidential primary, the flag, and the local referendum.

This was AFTER I had confronted an old man who asked (LOUDLY) if he could choose to vote for "those damned Democrats today but still vote republican in the General Election." All the poll workers were laughing and encouraging him to choose a DEM ballot (Yep, you sure can, ha ha!). I confronted him and told him (loudly) that subverting the process was shameful. At which time he told me "I'll vote any way I want young lady." To which, I replied "well, good, I'll make sure to cancel out your bogus vote."

[Andy_Stephenson]

67. We really have to win this fight SaddenedDem...

otherwise it is game set and match on Democracy.

[SaddenedDem]

70. I have made a complete report to the proper authorities

The behavior is on record with MULTIPLE agencies.

[Andy_Stephenson]

71. Good Damned Deal!

Sick em!

[RedEagle]

83. Way to go Saddened Dem!

Got others in Georgia geared up to do the same?

Then cc the report to the press?

[adadem]

79. Good for you

for standing up to him.

[never cry wolf]

35. A question for you guys

I don't want to divert this thread off topic but obviously today is an important trial run. If the machine have widespread problems or many suspicious things happen there could be a hue and cry for a change or fix before the GE, which would be great.

But, given that the heat is now on, thanks to all your wonderful efforts, do you think that anyone who may have been thinking of testing manipulation proceedures would back off knowing that the big prize comes about in November?

Just a thought, no biggie. Thanks again to everyone!!

[bearfan454]

44. kick

.

[ParanoidPat]

49. Here's a great sound byte for those who say the machines are safe.....

....."From a security perspective, that's like saying that because you walked through a bad neighborhood and didn't get mugged, that the neighborhood is inherently safe," Avi Rubin :evilgrin:

:kick:

[tom_paine]

50. kick for Bev Harris -- Patriot!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Joanne98]

55. Reporting from Zanesville OH

I went down to the elections office downtown and we're NOT voting on electronic voting machines in Nov. I'm in Bob Ney's district. Interesting.

[ParanoidPat]

59. It may not be a 'touch screen' but....

.....it probably IS 'electronic'!

More fun from Ohio. :evilfrown:

From The VINDICATOR, Youngstown, Ohio

Opening of ballots causes uproar

An optical scanner had trouble reading too-wide ballots.

By D.A. WILKINSON
and PATRICIA MEADE
VINDICATOR STAFF WRITERS

YOUNGSTOWN — To maintain the integrity of Tuesday's Democratic primary, Mahoning County Prosecutor Paul J. Gains wants a representative from the Ohio Secretary of State's Office to inspect absentee ballots that were opened after regular board of elections hours Saturday.

"Even if those ballots were not tampered with in any shape or form, it still gives the appearance of impropriety," Gains said this morning. "That's why everyone is so upset, including myself."

Gains was to call Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell's office today to request that someone review the ballots. The prosecutor said only the secretary can put to rest any rumors that surround the opening of absentee ballots Saturday afternoon, after the Mahoning County Board of Elections had closed.

<Snip>

The problem is that some absentee ballots were cut one-sixteenth of an inch too wide. The extra width means the ballots weren't being read properly by the optical scanner used by the board. The scanner stops when it doesn't read a ballot.

The problem was discovered Saturday during a routine pre-election check of dummy ballots used to test the system's accuracy.

Ballot counting should go smoothly election night, said Mark Munroe, chairman of the Mahoning County Board of Elections.

Munroe estimated that about 30 percent of the ballots were too wide.

<More>

[Joanne98]

62. I asked if they used optical scanners

to count the ballots and they said no. I asked if the precincts counted the cards and she said no, that they are sealed up and delivered to the city office by "the judge", then they count them and call the SOS's office. I guess they count by hand. My precinct had a sign that said "Your vote counts". The N was wrote backwards. Scary

[Andy_Stephenson]

60. San Diego County having trouble

*snip*

The technical problem is not with the new polling machines themselves, but with a card reader used by the machines that pulls up an unfamiliar screen of information, Roberts said.

*snip*

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040302-0824-votingproblems.html

[never cry wolf]

89. WOW, over 41% in their poll report problems voting

Was it ok that I voted yes too?



I live in Illinois.

:evilgrin:

[ParanoidPat]

68. More info from Maryland......

.....From The Baltimore Sun

Few problems reported with voting machines

Area election directors see only minor mishaps with new touch-screen devices; 'Everything's going very well'; But turnout for Md. primary low so far

By Bill McCauley and Ariel Sabar, Sun Staff
Originally published March 2, 2004, 1:11 PM EST

Those new touch-screen voting machines are passing their first major test in the Baltimore area -- so far.

"Everything's going very well, no problems at all," said Linda Lamone, state administrator of elections.

Any problems that did occur with the machines were minor and have been fixed, said Baltimore area election directors.

(So which is it? :shrug: )
<Snip>

The worst glitch so far with the new voting machines was in Anne Arundel County, at the Bates Middle School precinct, said Barbara Fisher, the county's election director. She said cards used to program the machines there had to be reprogrammed this morning, forcing the precinct to use paper ballots until the problem was fixed. She was unable to immediately say how many paper ballots were used.

But within a few hours, the problem was fixed. "Anne Arundel is all good. We're up and running," Fisher said late this morning.

<Snip>

Two Baltimore County precincts -- No. 1412, the park senior center, and No. 1413, the American Turner's Hall -- had encoder cards switched and officials at each had to use provisional ballots until election workers could exchange them, said Jaqueline McDaniel, the election director. Provisional ballots allow someone to vote pending verification of registration after the election.

<More>

On Edit: Fixed Link

[RedEagle]

78. ACLU Question

If you were denied your right to vote, even if you voted but found out after the fact you now can't vote on the issues/candidates you intended to vote for, whether the problem was poll worker error or machine, do these people have cause to finally get the ACLU on the ball?

Where is that second chance voting so highly PR'd by these companies? If it's too confusing to tell, and if, as it looks like, the voter could not "spoil the ballot" and go back and revote, don't we have a disenfranchisement issue here?

I mean, people want the voter verified paper ballot machines to have every conceivable way to spoil THAT ballot if necessary. And I do understand the need to be DONE with voting at some point, or a few people would spend hours changing their minds. But when people cannot vote as they wanted to, due to error or malfunction, what then?

[Andy_Stephenson]

80. Too Bad...shoulda read

the instructions more carefully.

[SaddenedDem]

72. Another GEORGIA report

All of the vocal Georgia activists are having telephone problems.

Phones disconnected, land lines cutting out as if they are mobile phones with no tower connection, mobile phones not allowing voice messages - "that customer is unavailable, call back later. Disconnect." Online access disconnected after payment YESTERDAY and on time.

Very suspicious activity with the activists and their ability to communicate.

[leftchick]

73. Wow! Lots of problems in San Diego County....

http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/print/2889101/detail.html?use=print

SAN DIEGO -- The first couple hours of voting with the new electronic touch screens have revealed machine malfunctions across San Diego County and a flood of complaints to the registrar of voters office.

The most common problems have to do with starting the machines with activation cards. The problems were exacerbated by poll workers who were not trained to deal with this unexpected situation.

"We tried to bring up the little computer that authorizes the voter card, so the voter can get onto the voting machine, this did not come up properly and we had no instructions on how to fix that," poll worker Ron Atkins said.

The problems are being addressed, but many voters are being told to come back later, or go to the registrar of voters office, located at 5201 Ruffin Road in Kearny Mesa.

Registrar Sally McPherson emphasized that the computer themselves are working and hopes voters will be patient with poll workers.

"It's to my understanding that all the polls are open. We did have this morning a screen come up on the activator that the poll workers were not expecting. We had to walk them through three steps to get them to the proper screen to be able to open the polls and begin giving voters their ballots," McPherson said.

McPherson was unsure how many precincts were affected by the problem, however, 10News received calls from about 30 polling locations throughout the county that were having issues.

[althecat]

120. This is pathetic.. time to boot Diebold... Kevin Shelley Take Aim....

steady....

FIRE..

[ParanoidPat]

121. The next VSP (Voting System Panel) meeting should be a hoot!

I'm sure the Honorable Mr. Shelly will not be amused! :evilgrin:

For those who haven't read it here's Kevin Shelly's address to the California VSP in early February. Folks should cut and paste this into an e-mail and send it to their S.o.S. and ask them what part of this they disagree with. :)

The Address

Members of the Voting Systems Panel and Ladies and Gentleman behind me, I understand, from staff, that I, as Secretary of State, am breaking precedent by appearing before this panel. I appreciate all of the sage advice that you give me and recommendations that you make, but I felt it appropriate to break precedent, given the circumstance of the item you are hearing and discussing at the moment. My concern is beyond the individual item that is being discussed as it applies to Diebold and the recommendations to be made in that regard. It's much larger than that.

The core of our American democracy, members, is the right to vote. And implicit in that right is the notion that that vote be private, that vote be secure, and that vote be counted as it was intended when it was cast by the voter. I think what we're encountering is a pivotal moment in our democracy where all that is being called into question – the privacy of the vote, the security of the vote, and the accuracy of the vote. It troubles me, and it should trouble you.

Now, initial presentation was just made on the findings of the report, and I want to thank you very much for conducting the study and for the important review you provided. I know the VSP will soon be asking questions and then making some recommendations, but there are a number of things that this report details that are very troubling. There were unqualified uses of software that had not been approved by the Federal government; there were uncertified uses of software that had not been certified by the State government; and the software was used in a number of instances. That is deeply troubling because it's a violation of the elections code. There were lax accounting procedures, whether it be by counties or whether it be by this very agency, where we have not had a sufficiently extensive mechanism to assess, on a regular basis, what systems were in use.

I think that, on the county level, the audit reinforces my comments on American democracy – that on the county level, the physical security of the voting is sound and the county registrars and their excellent staff are doing a very good job in ensuring that security, but that the technical security is less sound, and the procedures that should be and must be in place at the county level are not sufficiently in place now.

At the same time, we – the Secretary of State’s office, the entity the election code charges with the responsibility to certify systems – bear responsibility if we're not on a consistent and regular basis assessing what software systems are in place. I believe we have the finest elections staff of any Secretary of State operation in the country (no disrespect to the other forty nine). Having said that, for every state election program, it's a new era and we must adjust our procedures, our assessment mechanisms, our approaches towards assuring the privacy, accuracy, security, and integrity of those votes. Now I know a number of recommendations will be made today. I look forward to implementing the recommendations of this panel to provide, from this office’s perspective, stronger mechanisms to address them – be it bi-annual assessments, be it regular auditing, be it spot checks, be it a number of things that came out of the recommendations of the touch screen task force.

You know it's very interesting that, recently when I made the decision to require a paper audit trail, a number of county officials very respectfully denounced them and a number of vendors, many of whom are represented behind me, said it wasn't necessary, said their machinery was secure. At the same time, a number of those within the community, the voter advocacy community, have oft times alleged Armageddon if we don't make immediate changes. Well you know, I don't know who's right.

I'm like the average voter. I don't know. And because I don't know, I want the confidence that a paper trail provides. And like an average voter, I want the confidence that a stronger assessment mechanism at the state level will provide. And like the average voter, I want the confidence that stronger procedures at the county level will ensure the accuracy, integrity and privacy of those votes. Once again, the right to vote is the most precious demonstration of our democracy. We must take it seriously, we must cherish it, and all of us, at the county level, at this office, and in the election vendor community, must act accordingly.

Now the audit is not complete. We don't have all the findings as yet, and we don't know what's occurred comprehensively. I would hope that the end result sanction that we suggested we might make today, pursuant to this hearing taking place, won't be the suggestion of de-certification of Diebold systems. I would hope that won't be the case. I certainly hope that won't be the case with other vendors as well. But if we find that there are gross discrepancies and violations, I am prepared to go down that road, and so this needs to be taken very, very seriously. And with that, I thank you for your time and I'll let you continue with your hearing.

[Kelvin Mace]

127. Huh??

Registrar Sally McPherson emphasized that the computer themselves are working and hopes voters will be patient with poll workers.

Okay, Sally, so please explain this:

"We tried to bring up the little computer that authorizes the voter card, so the voter can get onto the voting machine, this did not come up properly and we had no instructions on how to fix that," poll worker Ron Atkins said.

Sounds like a computer is NOT working.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[northofdenali]

77. Bev, Gbnc -

:loveya::yourock::loveya:

Thanks!

[Andy_Stephenson]

81. Awwwww

shucks.

:yourock: as well NoD

[Robbien]

85. Just mentioning that Drudge has BBV glitches up as its big banner

headline story.

[RedEagle]

86. HAVA Misinformation

This is a little bit off topic, but when officials tell you they HAVE to buy touch screens to get HAVA money, ask them why?


THE MYTH OF HAVA (The Help America Vote Act)

It is not true that counties have to discard punch card voting machines. The election reform passed by Congress, the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) states:

“(B) A state or jurisdiction that uses a paper ballot voting system, a A PUNCH CARD VOTING SYSTEM, or a central count voting system, (including mail-in absentee ballots and mail-in ballots), MAY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS of subparagraph (A)(iii)by-
(i) ESTABLISHING A VOTER EDUCATION PROGRAM specific to that voting system that notifies each voter of the effect of casting multiple votes for an office; and
(ii) providing the voter with instructions on how to correct the ballot before it is cast and counted (including instructions on how to correct the error through the issuance of a replacement ballot if they voter was otherwise unable to change the ballot or correct any error).”


Federal law does not mandate a Touch Screen machine for people with disabilities at each polling site:

“Accessibility for individuals with disabilities-
The Voting system shall-
Satisfy the requirement of subparagraph (A) through the use of at least one direct recording electronic voting system OR OTHER VOTING SYSTEM equipped for individuals with disabilities at each polling place.”

Disabled-friendly voting systems costing a fraction of what Touch Screens do, such as ballot templates, used in Europe and Rhode Island, are acceptable under the HAVA Act.

Federal legislation requires HAVA implementation by the first federal election in 2006, which would be in November, not January 1, 2006:

“...will be replaced in time for the first election for Federal office held after January 1, 2006.”

While the clause above includes time frames about punch card and lever replacement, Title III of the HAVA Act specifically allows punch cards with an educational program.

http://fecweb1.fec.gov/hava/law_ext.txt

Deadline: Title I, sec. 102, (a)(3)(B)
Punchcards: Title III, sec. 301, (a)(1)(B)
Disabilities: Title III, sec. 301, (a)(3)(B)

As a general rule, when they talk about the cost of voter verified paper ballots, the additional cost per machine is only based on upgrading existing, non-voter verified paper ballot producing DRE’s. If a voter verified paper ballot is incorporated into the machines design from the beginning, as in the Avante and Accupoll systems, the cost of the system is much less and almost the same as machines that do not produce a paper ballot.

These potential mitigating factors are not taken into consideration.

The state does not lose all of its HAVA money if it does not eliminate all of the punch cards:

HAVA PAYMENTS- It does not appear that the whole state must comply

Subtitle D- Election Assistance
Part 1- Requirements
Sec. 251
(d) ADOPTION OF COMMISSION GUIDELINES AND GUIDANCE NOT REQUIRED TO RECEIVE PAYMENT.--Nothing in this part may be construed to require a State to implement any of the voluntary voting system guidelines or any of the voluntary guidance adopted by the Commission with respect to any matter as a condition for receiving a requirements payment.

Title I
Sec. 102
(d) Repayment of Funds for Failure to Meet Deadlines.--
(1) In General.-- If a state receiving funds under the program this section fails to meet the deadline applicable to the State under subsection (a)(3), the State shall pay to the Administrator AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THE NONCOMPLIANT PRECINCT percentage of the amount of the funds provided to the State under the program.
(2) Noncompliant Precinct Percentage Defined.-- In this subsection, the term "noncompliant precinct percentage" means, with respect to a State, the amount (expressed as a percentage) equal to the quotient of--
(A) the number of qualifying precincts within the State for which the State failed to meet the applicable deadline; and
(B) the total number of qualifying precincts in the State.

http://fecweb1.fec.gov/hava/law_ext.txt

I don't read this as an "all or nothing" where replacing punch cards is concerned. In fact, HAVA is full of qualifying language that says, basically, it can recommend but cannot deny. I think some states that are going for all optical scan systems have this figured out.

HAVA might be worth an expert review by an attorney not affiliated with a State Elections office as to just what HAVA must be done.

[kath]

100. Dammit, why can't we have a Canadian-style precinct-counted paper ballot

system??!!

It would save tons of $$$$$ and lots of hassle.

If they're counted at the precinct under lots of watchful eyes from all parties, it's fairly hard to commit fraud.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andy_Stephenson]

102. Kick...this should be in GD

n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

105. Look at this! From Ben in GA

"Kudos to all voters in prior posts who reported exemplary service on their computer ballots for the presidential primary. Unfortunately, my experience was much more akin to what happened to Artis, Julie and Jeff. I voted at the Virginia Avenue Baptist precinct at 7 a.m.. I did fill out the proper registration form and the ballot/card given to me offered only the choice of voting on the flag issue before it ejected. After many phone conversations and emails this morning, I was basically told by the Secretary of State's office and the Fulton Country Department of Elections that my ballot was cast and there was nothing to do about it. Nevertheless, I decided to drop by the precinct this afternoon and discuss the situation with the supervisor. To my surprise I received another ballot. In the explaination it was my understanding that only "nonpartisan ballots" were distributed to this precinct and these were passed along to the voters, regardless of registration. While I was delighted to get the chance to vote again this procedure only heightened a feeling that voting by computer iss unreliable and not "tamper-proof". Being provided with a "second-chance" also confirmed my knowledge that I did the right thing and the experience a precinct/ballot problem and NOT a voter issue. I suggest that if you have the time, drop back by the VA/HI precinct and see if you can correct the problem."

[ParanoidPat]

115. I've been noticing something strange with Google.....

.....I've had a window open all day with the same 'key words' and have been hitting refresh to check for new stories. This morning, the number of hits for those key words was steadily increasing. This evening the number of stories suddenly dropped! It seems to be falling as I refresh! :wtf: :shrug: :evilfrown: Purge?

:kick:

[Andy_Stephenson]

116. I was noticing the very same thing

strange indeed.

[ParanoidPat]

122. When you do a 'sort by date'.....

....,the last story was posted 9 HOURS AGO! Several stories that were there earlier are no longer there. Should I break out my :tinfoilhat: ????
The number of stories was, IIRC, around 286 and climbing at noon PDT and now its at 234.

[Andy_Stephenson]

125. I have mine on

already

[JohnOneillsMemory]

130. Sounds like Google is another form of bbv. Move code and problems go away.

What were the keywords you were tracking?

[ParanoidPat]

131. "primary election", problems

Strange to watch the stories disappear! :shrug: :evilfrown:

[GregD]

133. Yeah, but we were a little better prepared for it this time

In November, we saw really bad stories become softer over the course of the day. Right before our eyes, they went poof, and got bettah! This time we were watching for it.

The good news is that as John followed a bunch of stories, he watched them go from bad to worse. And while we don't want there to be problems in elections, it certainly helps frame the issue.

He put several stories into our news section http://www.verifiedvoting.org/newsfeed.asp, and some others are in Calvoter's blog. http://www.calvoter.org/news/blog/index.html

We summarized all the problems we spotted on this thread at http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.asp?id=1375. If anyone wishes to point out items which should be added to that list, please let me know, as we do not wish to lose track of them. A number of journalists are using that page as a reference.

On edit - typo in last paragraph

[GregD]

119. Independent vs. American Independent... Hmmm

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1089140/posts?q=1&&page=51

What happened to me was weird...I have always been a registered Independent, and there fore been able to vote whichever primary I wanted. When I got my electronic card and inserted it, the candidates for the AMERICAN INDEPENDENT PARTY came up. By that time it was too late to take the cards out. The poll workers had no idea what to do. Once the card is in it won't come out until you cast your ballot. Once I casted my ballot, I couldn't do another one. Sensing the poll workers were getting a little nervous, I just said it was ok, but if my candidate lost by 1, I'd be really mad! I was still able to vote for the judges and propositions. It was weird. But the machine itself was very easy to use. If they can figure out a way to make all of this work, I do think it would be good.

[ParanoidPat]

123. Way to go GregD!

Into the lions den. :evilgrin:
At least they are starting to realize it is truly a bi-partisan issue. :toast:

:kick:

[Robbien]

124. Massachusetts vote totals are stalled right now

I've been watching vote totals at Boston.com
http://www.boston.com/news/special/politics/2004_results/

mainly keeping an eagle eye on the Senate seat race. The voting totals were steadily updated but then stalled at a 50-50 tie over an hour ago. Google also has nothing newer.

Don't know if this means anything, but thought I would mention it because this is an important Senate seat.

[ParanoidPat]

126. UNOFFICIAL Primary Results can be found here.....

.....at the source. http://www.state.ma.us/sec/ele/elespeif/nobrmidres.htm :)

[Woodstock]

128. Thank you Bev

I voted today in Maryland on a Diebold machine. For the first time in my life, I felt like my vote probably wouldn't count.

My impression was the stands under the machines were really flimsy, a gentle kick would knock them down. There was really only one guy keeping an eye on us, and while there was hardly anyone there voting when I was there, a couple of people approached him and I got the impression he could easily be overwhelmed. I saw the tamper tape and it would have been oh, so easy to lean over and mess with it. I didn't see your post here or I would have looked at the cords, I'm kicking myself now that I didn't.

All of us programmers are creeped out by Diebold, we know just how easy it is to slip in undetected code to skew results. One guy said, if anything should be open source, it should be this. A simple GUI for the paper printout is all that was called for, he said. We spend an incredible amount of time on our projects from start to finish, and they are nowhere nearly as important as the cornerstone for our democracy, our votes. For our state to buy these things that were so obviously blatantly poorly done has shocked everyone who finds out about it.

[Lauren2882]

129. kick (n/t)

[Florida_Geek]

132. Number 3 is wrong

"Sequoia touch-screens do not have an internal printer. A printer can easily be hooked up with a serial port. If you see printers, demand a polling place report"

The ones in Hillsborough County, Florida each TS has a printer