Attention Conservative Democrats: Republcians Will Never Respect You!

[bluestateguy]

Sure, Rush Limbaugh may say nice things about you on his program, Sean Hannity may use you of an example of a Democrat who does not hate America, and other beltway computer peckers may use your name after the word "even" ("even insert Democrat's name supports insert stupid Republican policy"). George W. Bush may cite you as a tribute to bipartisanship and Republican consultants may make a few quotes for the newspapers about how you are the candidate Bush fears the most and how you are the future of the Democratic Party. In the end, however, when these Republicans go into the privacy of the voting booth and close the curtain, they will still vote the straight Republican ticket. Voting for a "conservative Democrat" is never something that they actually consider doing.

[Tinoire]

1. I wish you'd post that once a week

Maybe then it will eventually sink in.

Courting that Republican or swing vote is nothing short of suicidal because it not only yields 0/zip/nada gains but makes us lose progressive and leftist votes.

Of course the Conservative Dems in leadership know this- destruction of the Dem party from within by infiltrators with an agenda.

Dems WAKE UP!

[JohnKleeb]

2. You know I agree totally

Cheers
Tell me please and this is meant as no offense to anyone who supports Dean and is like this
but mostly everyone here has little or no love for the DLC right? ok then why cant we support Kucinich? some wont support him because hes "unelectable" yet some go in to a fit when Al From says Dean cant win. Take no offense Dean supporters thats just an observation and I am glad you if you do respect Kucinich. I'll tell you another reason I prefer Kucinich to Dean: Kucinich the active congressman took time yet still kept his strong roll count vote and spoke at rallies against the war and Dean who was resigned as governor of Vermont by then didnt speak at a rally not one. Thats no offense again but it tells me something. Sorry for the rant people but I really felt I had to get this off my shoulders I am an idealist yes I know but I do understand realist politics.

[bluestateguy]

4. I more had J. Lieberman and Zell Miller in mind with this post

Dean may be insufficiently Left for you, but he is not a conservative Democrat.

[Warpy]

6. Even Jingo Joe

..Lieberman only got a 30% rating by some conservative policy stink tank, can't remember which one.

[JohnKleeb]

11. thats good news

Its not I am saying these kind of people dont belong in our party I never said that but I want the party to be liberal call me an idealist or whatever thats my belief and I will hold it with me forever. I dont mind Dean but I do kinda get irrirated when people bash the DLC I dont like the DLC either but then they say Kucinich has no chance even though they like his views. Its nothing really I just feel very frustrated again. I am a realist but I really tend to be an idealist more so.

[JohnKleeb]

8. I know hes not conservative

more of a moderate but thanks for seeing my point. Its that some of my fellow people who have Kucinich like views are supporting Dean because hes more "electable" thats playing the DLC game imo. Its nothing relaly I had to get that off my shoulders because I am really frustrated.

[Mairead]

26. I think there's a lot of evidence that Dean is a conservative Dem

even a very conservative one.

[JohnKleeb]

28. you know I kinda agree even though I dont wanna offend

his supporters who should god willing be for Kucinich. Theres really only two issues that I really see in him and thats he opposed the war but you know what so did some hardcore right wingers and his civil union thing in Vermont and I dont understand that. Sure he has fight in him but Kucinich is better on the issues. Mairead I really do think I agree with you. He doesnt want supporters of peace to fall in love with him to quote him I havent got the link with me damn and the fact not only is he more hawkish than DK as we all know but hes also more hawkish than Kerry. Kerry investagated what Reagan did in the 80's remember and Dean is quoted as saying the same article he had mixed feelings. The war in Iraq was awful but Dean wasnt even die hardly opposed. I hate to rain on the Dean supporters parade because I know you like the guy but he really only saw eye to eye with us on that and gays thats only two issues. I meant that for the liberal Dean supporters.

[bryant69]

5. There is a difference between Swing votes and Republicans

I mean that's why they are called swing votes isn't it? They might switch up. Ceding the swing vote to the republicans in an effort to shore up the base is not, in my opinion, a winning option. Instead we have to reach out to the swing voter--in particular we need to explain to them how we can make America better and safer by following liberal principles.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[whoYaCallinAlib]

10. Absolutely, positively 100% clear thinking.

To give the swing voters to the repukes is political suicide. The swingers decide the election, year in and year out. We need programs that appeal to these voters.

[Julien Sorel]

27. No, No, No!!!!!!!!!!!

A real political party is dogmatic and doctrinaire, to the point where everyone who supports it is a committed idealist. With such a zealous base of support, such a political party will go out and change the world. Look at the Greens, for example.

[jfkennedy]

3. Clark the only one that can win in 2004

General Wesley Clark is the only one that can beat Bush.Thats if we had a Democratic party run by liberals like we did in the time of kennedy. Clark will face the same thing Gore did in the 2000 election he will be sold out by the DLC run by Republican lawyers and Republican democrats. Clark has something Clinton the Republican democrat sell out does not have the actual ability to be a Liberal democratic President something we have not had in this country since JFK.

Dean will not win because the DLC won't let him win. Don't forget Nader endorsed Bush in 2000, and that the Republican Party funds the Green party. On election day of 2000 Bush bought Naders anti-Gore ads in key swing states for Nader to run.

And unknown fact the Gore lawyer during the 2000 election did a terrible job in court thus Bush won. As well, Gore or his people should of done some research and known that Florida politics is corrupt. In fact right around that time before the 2000 election someone had just rigged the election to win.

Thus he should of asked for a vote count in all of Florida.

[poskonig]

13. Clark, as of today, is an empty suit.

A person cannot say, "I'm a general," and *poof*, you win the election. Clark has foreign policy experience and is reasonable on the issues, but so do a lot of other candidates. We shall see if he has the ability to give inspiring speeches, give effective soundbites, raise money, organize support, work the media well, debate effectively, y'know, the standard political stuff.

Keep in mind: If we are still talking about Iraq or the economy in 2004, Bush is in trouble no matter who we run.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Gotta agree with you there

[Pepperbelly]

29. empty suit?

that is a pretty damned silly statement.

[Pepperbelly]

7. have you ever considered that ...

some Democrats just don't agree with you on everything?

Your post seems to assume that they may disagree with you because of some electoral strategy. Maybe they just think you're all wet.

[MaverickX]

9. most Repugs I know...

Call "conservative" Democrats like Gary Condit Socialists so "conservative" Dems know the GOP won't vote for them. Conservative Democrats are simply trying to give voters in conservative regions like the South who feel the GOP is too far right an alternative to the GOP.

You'll find that in districts "conservative" Dems represent that their GOP opponents are to the right of Sean Hannity. People in these areas won't vote for traditional liberals, hence "conservative" Dems appear. I'm perfectly okay with this as long as they stand up for basic Democratic principles(labor standards, environmental standards, civil rights, etc.)

This is essential because what's conservative and liberal depends on the region you operate in. For instance Clinton was conservative by urban California standards but very progressive according to rural Southern standards. The problem is that the political and economic system in the South wasn't included in the progressive changes of the 20th century half as much as Northern and Eastern states so their standards tend to be more conservative.

The trick is to get "conservative" Dems who are quite progressive by Southern standards into power in these regions so they can initiate progressive changes in the political and economic systems in the South. The progressive writer Michael Lind details this in his book Made in Texas.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

12. Of course Republicans vote the Republican ticket

This is not news to me. The 25% or so registered republicans are, for the most part, beyond reach.

The target is the 50% or so undecided/independents. The only hope of getting their vote is to nominate one of the following:

Kerry
Edwards
Clark
Gephart
Lieberman

Of course Gore would be at the top of the list if he changes his mind.

[lkinsale]

15. And Graham

Graham is in perfect position to appeal to swing voters, particularly in the south and midwest.

He has the most experience of all the candidates, and the kind of personal appeal that makes swing voters feel confident in him. He's got heart and integrity, something that swing voters are desperate to find.

And he's got Florida. :)

[w4rma]

20. Dean's campaign will gain Democratic support in the South

based on economy (renegotiate NAFTA for fair-trade, not free-trade) and a pro-gun stance. None of the other candidates are using this "Old Democrat" strategy from back when Democrats owned the South.

Even if Dean doesn't pick up many Southern states, he still will garner support for Democrats running in the South.

Southerners will vote with their pocketbook and they won't be afraid that Dean will take their guns and turn the country into a police state.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

23. Good points on Graham and Dean

Mabye one of them will be the right choice, but I prefer a Kerry/Clark or Kerry/Edwards ticket.

Gore/Clark sounds good to me too.

[bluestateguy]

16. reply

"This is not news to me. The 25% or so registered republicans are, for the most part, beyond reach."

Some people seem to think they can be appeased, but they will always demand Democrats move farther and farther to the right.

"The target is the 50% or so undecided/independents. The only hope of getting their vote is to nominate one of the following:"

Many of these slippery people never bother to vote: taking Jessica to soccer practice in the SUV is a higher priority on election day than voting.

Don't forget about defections on the Left. Al Gore won all the swing voters he needed to win in 2000. It was the mass defection on the Left that sunk him, or least made it close enough for Tean Bush to steal

Kerry Nader wins 2.5-3%
Edwards " " " 3%-3.5%
Clark " " " 1.5%-2%
Gephart " " " 3%-3.5%
Lieberman " " " 5%-5.5%



"Of course Gore would be at the top of the list if he changes his mind."

With Al Gore the Nader vote would likely be a little less than last time. Howard Dean would hold the Greens to 1%--the hard core activists, the kind of hopeless people who think that we should negotiate a settlement with Osama bin Laden.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Respectfully

did you pull those numbers out of your ass

[quilp]

17. What did Clinton get for giving them NAFTA and "welfare reform"?

What he deserved.

[Tinoire]

18. Interesting Poll results- Also for John Kleeb (take heart!)!

So far unfreeped and on a Democratic think tank site that hardly seems leftist. Does anyone know who is behind this site? I've been checking it daily and watching Kucinich's numbers grow. This has really heartened me because no matter how leftist progressive he is, he has always been able to carry the swing vote and even the Republican vote in his state- twice unseating Republican incumbents.
http://www.kucinich.us/electable.htm

Here's the Poll

Which candidate has the best chance to win the presidency?
1 Howard Dean 14 (9.33%)
2 John Edwards 2 (1.33%)
3 Dick Gephardt 2 (1.33%)
4 Bob Graham 22 (14.67%)
5 John Kerry 12 (8.00%)
6 Dennis Kucinich 44 (29.33%)
7 Joe Lieberman 54 (36.00%)
8 Carol Moseley Braun 0 (0.00%)
9 Al Sharpton 0 (0.00%)
150 votes


http://www.democrats.us/beta/forum/view_topic.php?id=19&forum_id=10&view_results=1

[JohnKleeb]

19. *smiles* even though lieberman is in first

Of course Dennis can get the swing vote maybe these people arent the hardcore liberal I am but you know say they are like a worker ok and DK is pro labor as they come right and the republican is very anti worker they would choose Dennis. People dont realize that Kucinich has a chance and we must always keep in mind that dark horses can and do win at times.

[lkinsale]

21. This poll changed radically after it was discovered by DU'ers

This link was first posted on DU the other night. When I visited it right after the DU post, Lieberman was far far ahead of all the others, Bob Graham second, and the others all trailing. After the DU influx, Kuchinich pulled out quite suddenly. I would't put much stock in this poll, except as freeped by candidate supporters.

[JohnKleeb]

22. well wouldnt that make Dean the most popular on the poll

because most DUers are for Dean so I guess while your point has ground to it if that were so then Dean not Kucinich would be ahead,

[Tinoire]

30. It it were freeped by DUers

It would have been equally freeped. I don't buy that reasoning because I've been watching that poll grow daily. The growth was not sudden. I've had a window minimized to it for at least 4 days now.

Additionally, I don't believe that any DUers would go freep a Democratic Poll because almost all of us care more about getting the RIGHT candidate in there than in making it look as if our candidate is number one.

Read the other candidate's official forums, they are all losing voters to Kucinich as people look at the issues they care about and weigh them against Kucinich's stance more closely.

The best man for the job and for our country should win and that's what we're all working towards- I hope.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Out Of The Some Four Hundred Fifty

elected Democratic senators and representatives I doubt more than 10% could be defined as conservative by using any of the various rating systems used by political groups;i.e ADA, ACU, AFL-CIO.

Even Old Joe always scores > 70 on the ADA rating system and < 30 on the ACU rating system.

I respectfully submit the conservative Democrat is a red herring.