David Brooks: "Massachusetts is not like America"

[Faygo Kid]

Heard David Brooks on Lehrer tonight say (and I am indeed directly quoting) "Massachusetts is not like America." Well, golly and gee. Would like to hear from Massachusetts DUers about your independent nation, and why you are not like us real Americans. Do you have a third eye in the back of your heads? Do you not love your children, want good jobs and are concerned about "preemptive" war? When did you fall off the map? Maybe it has something to do with your lack of a role in American history. Could that be it? Why and when did you secede? I am so sorry you are not like America. Maybe Brooks was thinking Central or South America? Maybe he thinks you are located on the Indian Ocean? I am confused. Can you help?

[FDRrocks]

1. He's right...

Massuchussetts is a part of America. Thus IS America, at least a part of it.

[Faygo Kid]

2. ??? He's right?

Another beer, perhaps?

[FDRrocks]

He's right, but not as he thinks, is what I mean...

Massachussetts, is not LIKE America, (refer to above post).

[Plaid Adder]

Massachusetts is the friggin' CRADLE of America.

Boston Tea Party? Old North Church? Boston Massacre? Battle of Bunker Hill? Minutemen? Ride of Paul Revere? Anyone? Bueller?

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

[Faygo Kid]

6. I'm sorry. If David Brooks said so, all that must be irrelevant.

Multiple presidents, the Pilgrims/Puritans, Red Sox, first college (Harvard), Cape Cod, Liberty - nope, apparently not enough. To David Brooks, Massachusetts is not part of America. You make a good case, though, to at least humor residents into thinking they are part of America - just not George W. Bush's America.

[Mairead]

48. Or the cradle of WHTE America, at least

[I Lean Left]

3. I suspect he didn't mean that as a compliment???

[Stephanie]

4. David Brooks has Teeny, Soft, Girly Hands

I can't think of anyone I despise more.

[Joanne98]

22. lol

good one:)

[Poiuyt]

44. Maybe he's a carny

"Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands." Austin Powers

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. Brooks is a shameless and fairly lame shill for the RW.

I think the NYT embarrasses itself by having him as a "conservative" columnist. Didn't he write for the Weekly Standard or something before?

[Stephanie]

8. Yes, and his NYT bio says he still works for them

He is the spokesmodel for the neocons. His columns are packed with LIES.

He was on NPR tonight saying they would attack Kerry for the fact that he is RICH.

[KC21304]

9. At least Kerry didn't steal his money from the

share holders of Harken and the people of Arlington Texas.

[Stephanie]

14. Or inherit it from the spoils of his grandfather's deals with the Nazis

Prescott Bush.

[Zero Gravitas]

35. what a maroon

I heard that too. Any of his lame attacks on Kerry like that can easily apply to War-President Bush so if he thinks that is a viable attack he's an even bigger idiot than he appears.

[Stephanie]

16. Check out his bio - I think he still works for the Weekly Standard

He is one of the neo-cons. He is their mouthpiece. I can't understand why he appears on PBS and NPR and the NY Times. It makes me sick. I cancelled the Times.

Look at his bio:

David Brooks's column on the Op-Ed page of The New York Times started in September 2003. He is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, a contributing editor at Newsweek and the Atlantic Monthly, and a commentator on "The Newshour with Jim Lehrer." He is the author of "Bobos In Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There" published by Simon & Schuster.

Mr. Brooks joined The Weekly Standard at its inception in September 1995, having worked at The Wall Street Journal for the previous nine years. His last post at the Journal was as op-ed editor. Prior to that, he was posted in Brussels, covering Russia, the Middle East, South Africa and European affairs. His first post at the Journal was as editor of the book review section, and he filled in for five months as the Journal's movie critic.

Mr. Brooks graduated from the University of Chicago in 1983, and worked as a police reporter for the City News Bureau, a wire service owned jointly by the Chicago Tribune and Sun Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/BROOKS-BIO.html

[stopbush]

7. Maybe not, but Mass. is awfully close to being a lot like Maine,

from whence hails one gw shrub...

[kskiska]

57. You mean Connecticut.

Smirk was born a couple blocks off Yale campus, where Poppy was a student. Maine was just for summers. And Poppy didn't even own that house until he became Reagan's VP. Just like the pig farm, it was purchased to be a stage set. (It had been in the another branch of the family, though. The Walkers of Walker Point.)

[orwell]

10. The Big Tent

I can see the strategery now:

The Bush Campaign Platform 2004 otherwise known as the dirty dozen:

1. Sending jobs offshore is good.
2. Allowing a coup in our hemisphere is good.
3. Attacking poor countries who haven't attacked you is good.
4. Robbing Social Security is good.
5. Allowing illegal immigration for cheap labor is good.
6. Alienating most of the world is good.
7. Running giant deficits is good.
8. Trashing the currency is good.
9. Liberals are bad.
10. Homos are bad.
11. Changing your mind is bad.

and finally the final plank of the Republican platform:
12. Massachusetts is bad.

Sounds like a winning ticket to me... :eyes:

O

[regnaD kciN]

11. ...and David Brooks is not like a person with a brain...

:evilgrin:

[Cat Atomic]

12. If Massachusetts is not America, then Texas isn't even on earth.

[Faygo Kid]

13. Touche. We are all citizens of Massachusetts - all of us on DU, anyway.

I love San Antonio, Texas. The rest of the state, you can keep. Massachusetts? Have never been there, believe it or not (I can't believe it). But, that's only physical. Mentally, emotionally, in every scholarly sense, I have been there and am there still. Sorry, David Brooks: All Americans are residents of Massachusetts.

[JohnKleeb]

15. Well Dave, Texas really isnt America either

[Stephanie]

17. Also, I believe he dyes his hair

[maveric]

18. I was born a Masshole and I'll die a Masshole.

Fuck Brooks!

[stepnw1f]

19. How ya like them apples

........kid?

[Eric J in MN]

20. Where did David Brooks say that? (nt)

nt

[Lexingtonian]

21. Yes, we kicked the Puritan theocrats out 300 years ago

A heinous crime for which their pissant heirs have not forgiven us.

Boston claimed itself 'the Athens of America' and, more modestly, 'the Hub of the Universe' during the mid/late 19th century. We still refer to Boston as 'The Hub' at times, at least in local newspaper articles. (Some other annoying place grabbed up 'The City'. We console ourselves with the knowledge that we may move 'r's around in our speech, but at least we know how to pronounce it in proper alveolar fashion. Unlike Nuh Youwkas.)

We also got the major contingent of federal troops put into Charleston in 1860 because of the Preston Brooks caning thing, just to get even with the South Carolinians. And our boys did some serious damage at Gettysburg and the Petersburg Breakthrough.

I believe that entitles Massachusetts, or at least Boston, to rejection by selfprofessed Real Americans.

David Brooks has the unfortunate attribute of being considered a relatively smart and perceptive pundit about American cultural politics. He has, unfortunately, discovered that in that position it is unimportant to actually bother to get it right much of the time, and in fact the truth (which every now and then he gets an accidental smidgen of into print) just annoys the average reader/listener. And that's how he plays it.

[midnight armadillo]

23. Sometimes I wonder...

..if it's jealousy over the influence MA folks have had on US history and our many first-in-the-nation accomplishments...ahem:

• 4 presidents - John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Calvin Coolidge, JFK.
  
• The Declaration of Independence etc
  
• 4 delegates to the writing of the Constition: Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King, Elbridge Gerry, Caleb Strong
  
• 1634. the first public park in America - Boston Common
  
• 1635. The first American public schools
  
• 1636. Harvard, the first American College
  
• 1639. First commercial printing press in north america
  
• 1643. The first American ironworks
  
• 1653. The first American public library
  
• 1704. The first regularly issued American newspaper
  
• 1716. The first American lighthouse
  
• 1775. The first battle of the American Revolution
  
• 1775. The first ship of the U.S. Navy, the schooner "Hannah"
  
• 1780. oldest State constitution still in use
  
• Shay's Rebellion - a rebellion by farmers against unsettled economic conditions and against politicians and laws which were grossly unfair to farmers and working people in general.
  
• 1789. The first American novel, William Hill Brown's The Power of Sympathy, published in Worcester
  
• 1806. The first church built by free blacks in America,
  
• 1826. The first American railroad
  
• 1833. Constitutional amendment separates church and state
  
• 1839. The first vulcanized rubber production
  
• 1845. The first sewing machine made by Elias Howe in Boston.
  
• 1846. The first public use of ether
  
• 1863. Robert Gould leads the 54th Massachusetts into battle
  
• 1866. The first African-American legislators in New England elected to the General Court.
  
• 1875. The first American Christmas card printing
  
• 1876. The first telephone demonstrated by Alexander Graham Bell in Boston.
  
• 1886. The first electrical transformer demonstrated
  
• 1891. The first basketball game played in Springfield
  
• 1892. The first successful gasoline-powered automobile perfected by Charles and Frank Duryea in Springfield.
  
• 1895. The first volleyball game played in Holyoke.
  
• 1896. The first American public beach established in Revere.
  
• 1897. The first successful American subway system opened in Boston.
  
• 1926. The first successful liquid fuel rocket launched by Dr. Robert Goddard
  
• 1928. The first computer, a non-electronic "differential analyzer," developed by Dr. Vannevar Bush of M.I.T.
  
• 1944. And, not to be outdone by M.I.T., Howard Aiken of Harvard developed the first automatic digital computer.
  
• 1966. Edward W. Brooke is first African-American elected to United States Senate by popular vote.
  
• 1988. Almost a 5th president, Dukakis.
  

• 2004. 5th president, John Kerry, is elected!!!!!:party::beer:

  
  

(list partially swiped from mass home)

I've always suspected MA's role in abolition has always irritated certain elements of the establishment.

I'll leave off the innumerable contributions to science and culture fostered by the highest concentration of institutions of higher learning in the world in eastern MA. Companies started by MIT grads alone in 97 would make the world's 24th laegest economy.

Brooks is a dumb ideologue. MA is where America started with the revolution and we continue to lead the way.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Except...

the Declaration of Independence was written and signed in Philadelphia.

And as far as "first in the nation" goes, Jamestown was the first permanent settlement, in 1607 (one of my ancestors was a colonist, predating the Mayflower by a good 13 years; but I have ancestors who settled in New England in the 1630's, too), and EIGHT Presidents came from Virginia (including Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Wilson). Not to take away from the many accomplishments of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, just trying to show that this sort of thing is kind of silly...

(and this Brooks guy is a twit, but that goes without saying.)

[Art_from_Ark]

53. The oldest permanent European settlement in the US is St. Augustine, FL

and Santa Fe, NM, comes in a close second.

[Spider Jerusalem]

61. True...

slipped my mind. The Spanish were established in Florida in the 1520's.

Although what I said still stands, as the Virginia colony was the earliest settled of the thirteen British colonies which became the United States...(Florida not becoming US territory till the 1820's).

[kskiska]

58. Small corrections

Coolidge was born in Plymouth Notch, Vermont, though he later lived in Mass. for a while.
Strange to say, Poppy Bush was born in Milton, Mass., though I'm sure Mass. has no wish to claim him.

[DoNotRefill]

25. I'll not set foot in Mass....

because if they caught me there, they'd arrest me. I've never done anything illegal in Mass, they'd just do it on general principles.

Whenever I fly overseas, I make sure that in case of emergency my plane would not under any circumstances set down in Mass. Better to take a longer route than to risk Massachucetts.

Same general deal with New Jersey, with the exception that I'd be subject to 10 years in prison if I set foot there, even if buck naked. Many years ago, I was shot. The bullet, a hollow point, is still lodged in me. Possession of a hollowpoint bullet in NJ is a big deal crime, with stiff penalties, even if it's just the projectile and it's already been used.

[OKNancy]

26. Brooks is pro gay marriage

Weird isn't it? My daughter had to do a college paper and Brooks was one of her sources. I couldn't believe it so I went to the column cited, and there it was.

He makes some really good arguments for the "pro" side, that Democrats could use.

"The conservative course is not to banish gay people from making such commitments. It is to expect that they make such commitments. We shouldn't just allow gay marriage. We should insist on gay marriage. We should regard it as scandalous that two people could claim to love each other and not want to sanctify their love with marriage and fidelity"

Here is the column- not from the original, but complete:

http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~williamsproj/Ideas/power.html

[tobius]

27. MA definately doesn't look like America. nt

[Fight_n_back]

28. Texas is not like Earth

it looks like the surface of the moon.
If there weren't so many dead dinosaurs underneath it we wouldn't have to put up with these Bushes.

[lastliberalintexas]

36. Not all of the state

That's just the part people get to see in old westerns. East and Central Texas are far different than the western wastelands. East Texas is actually home to the Big Thicket National Preserve, a magnificent piece of land that has an abundance of wildlife and flora.

And for the most part, people here are decent and fun loving. But we have one of the lowest voter turnout rates in the nation, so the psychos that make up 25% of our population control things!

Didn't intend to turn this into a hijack...

[bushwakker]

29. We STARTED America - Fuck You Brooks*

[scarface2004]

30. david brooks is not like an american....

a nazi cretin!!

[Stephanie]

31. Kicking for Will Pitt

He'd probably like to see this.

[WarNoMore]

32. I *love* my adopted state

of Mass. When I started to trace my family tree, I found that my earliest ancestor came to Salem in 1636, other ancestors came to New Towne(Cambridge) and went on to settle Concord, so I have come full circle and this is where I'll stay.

[bobbieinok]

33. "San Francisco is not America" say right-wing talk show hosts

...

[SOS]

34. Brooks may be right in one sense...

some states, unlike MA, actually elect Democratic governors.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

49. Our Republican Governor has no power

the most powerful man is Tom Finneran, Speaker of the House. He is a Dem.

When Kerry wins, Romney wanted to appoint a Puke to his Senate seat until the next election. The Mass Legislature (95% Dem) is passing a bill for a run off election in November. Romney is pissed!

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/064/region/Bill_would_let_voters_not_Romn:.shtml

[HootieMcBoob]

37. he's probably right

I don't have the information in front of me but if I'm not mistaken I would venture to guess that Mass. is probably at the top in the rankings of states when it comes to the best public schools, public transportation, job growth,per capita income, arts and culture, healthy environment, health issues, etc.

And I would guess (correct me if I'm wrong) that Texas and most states that are considered conservative and probably most southern states are near the bottom in those categories.

If the GOP wants to go that route I say "bring it on"! All we have to do is present them with the facts. What states have attracted the most jobs? What states have the best school systems? What states do people want to move to? I think Massachusetts would look damn good if we did a compare and contrast.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

51. The worst public school in Mass

is better than most school systems in Texas. Mass. is also one of the states with the most college graduates, most PhDs, lowest healthcare costs, best social services. Caveats are high cost of living and exorbitant real estate prices.

[yellowcanine]

38. Kind of hard for Mr. "I'm a Uniter, not a Divider" to make this argument..

After all, Massachusetts is every much as American as Texas - maybe more so being as Texas seceded and Massachusetts didn't.

Not that this fact will stop smirkman.

[northzax]

39. he's right

Massachusetts is often the VANGUAD of America. While the 'heartland' of Virginia was waffling over whether to suck King George's teat or not, Massachusetts took the bull by the horns and did something about it. While the Southern States were trading people like Pokemon cards, Massholes led the fight against it.

Mass, Maine, Vermont, NH, New York and Penn don't look like America, America looks like them.

[skippysmom]

40. I am so sick of this

shit. I'm so tired of having to defend being from a region that isn't full of knuckle dragging assholes. We ARE America. Hell, we were part of this country decades before the states that are full of people claiming to be the true Americans.

[NewJeffCT]

41. No, Massachusetts is not like America

Neither is California, Utah, Florida, Texas, Alaska, Hawaii, Louisiana, Michigan, New York, etc.

[tom_paine]

42. Brooks is a Bushveik Totalitarian Scum

his words have the same relevance as Julius Streicher's.

I would love for that girly-man to say that to my face or to any other DUer's.

Them's fighting words, David, and this Pennsylvanian would volunteer eagerly to defend the honor of Massachusetts in the parking garage at the Times (or even the Heritage Foundation, where some of your Bushevik pals can sneak up on me in standard cowardly Bushevik fashion).

[struggle4progress]

43. Read between the lines :)

Maybe Brooks knows Bush plans to restore democracy in Massachussetts by organizing mass protests and sending the governor to exile in Diego Garcia.

Or maybe Brooks knows about another wonderful proposal to amend the Constitution to expel those states that might cause future trouble in the Electoral College.

[newyawker99]

46. Hi struggle4progress!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Tracer]

45. To: Mr. David "I'm So Reasonable" Brooks:

Massachusetts is like the rest of America ought to be.

The Cradle of Liberty, the home of the true Patriots, the educated, the free-thinking, the reasonable, the ordinary, the extraordinary, and the Red Sox.

Not to get carried away, but it's also home to Gov. Romney, House Speaker Finneran and other assorted sleazeballs. It's also a damned expensive place to live.

[Stephanie]

47. Pictures of Brooks' Teeny Little Girly Hands

I think he's overcompensating.

[Art_from_Ark]

54. A man can't control the way his hands develop

But he certainly has control over the thoughts that come out of his head and through his mouth.

Mr. Brooks should have controlled his.

[Stephanie]

55. Well I like talking about his hands anyway

Since he spouts his lies with impunity, I reserve the right to ridicule him for any stupid and irrelevant thing I can think of.

Hit 'em high
Hit 'em low
Hit 'em hard
Hit 'em again

Did you see what he said about Edwards this week? Implies that he's a Marxist. Says the reason people are poor isn't because they lack money.

Edwards talks about poverty in economic terms. He vows to bring jobs back to poor areas and restrict trade to protect industries. He suggests that if we could take money from the rich and special interests, there'd be more for the underprivileged.

This kind of talk is descended from Marxist theory, which holds that we live in the thrall of economic conditions. What the poor primarily need is more money, the theory goes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/02/opinion/02BROO.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks

Brooks can bite me. Well, no, he can't. His little girly hands are such a turn-off.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

50. He said something similar about Texas, too, didnt he?

I thought he was comparing Texas and Massachusets as the two extremes...the most liberal place & the most conservative place.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

52. I think Vermont may be more liberal than Mass

we have our Republicans too...they're just the pro-choice kind

[Skittles]

56. he is right; Matcom and William Pitt are like beings from another planet

of course I jest. :7

[MAlibdem]

59. Info for that Schmuck...WE ARE AMERICA

There are many flavors of americana, to try to deny any group of Americans their right to call themselves American is a perversion of what it means to be American. What a dumbass.

[MAlibdem]

60. Info for that Schmuck...WE ARE AMERICA

There are many flavors of americana, to try to deny any group of Americans their right to call themselves American is a perversion of what it means to be American. What a dumbass.

[LeahMira]

62. He's got it wrong...

It's Bush that's not like America.

Send him to this link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/03/03_america.html
Fantastic article! Says it all.

[ContinentalOp]

63. LOL!

Don't worry about the people from Mass. They hate America because of our freedom. Don't some people there live on islands?

Seriously though with all of the absurd regional talk about the candidates (those northeastern liberals, we need a southerner as our candidate, Vermont is tiny, etc.) I'm starting to wonder if we need to find a candidate who has lived in all 50 states! What do you think? Some kind of travelling salesperson, or possibly a carny as someone mentioned earlier in the thread. The first gypsy-american president? All regional biases would be dissolved into some sort of ideal northeastern-confederate-nascar-latte-ivory-tower-fundamentalist-cowboy-elite über candidate!

[SmokeyBlues]

64. Brooks just might be right

"Massachusetts is not like America."

Well, if the America Brooks so fondly talks about is mostly inhabited by shameless and ignorant Bush ass-lickers, then I proudly proclaim: one if by land and two if by sea baby.

Roughly translated: keep the vermin the hell out! And that includes Brooks!