Do we really care about the environment?

[littlejoe]

My last thread on this topic got locked immediately, so I will try to be more diplomatic this time around.

I have noticed that threads concerning issues on the environment receive little or no attention here at DU.

I also understand that we live in an age where the "cult of celebrity" reigns. The media has done a masterful job of forcing many people to care about the Koby's, the Jason's, Martha's,Michaels and Janet's of the world.

But when we have a current administration that has a wanton and willful purpose to roll back clean air and water regulations, sell forests off to the highest bidder for clearcutting and pass out oil leases in environmentally sensitive areas to campaign contributors for pennies an acre, to name but a few examples, and no one seems to care, I have to wonder where our priorities lie.

My question is this. Where on your list of prirorities does the environment rank?

It ranks very high on my list.

I would like to be able to leave my future grandkids an earth that doesn't require a gas mask and a radiation suit to go outdoors in.

Or drinking water that won't kill you.

Or ecosystems that can sustain wildlife.

Or forests to visit and camp in.

Etc...


I know it's interesting to talk about California governors, or political commentators and radio personalities, but I guess I would just be happy if the environment would receive an equal, if not greater amount of attention.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

caring about the environment=Xtreme optimism

[littlejoe]

15. DTF, thanks for the link. Chilling stuff!

Some of this I knew of, but never had I found such a thorough and compelling report. Wonderfully researched.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I think we all care about it...

It's one of those things that goes without saying. We don't need to rant every day about it. Unless something publicly happens, it's not something that warrants discussion right now. I feel pretty confident in where these forums stand in being pro-environment.

[littlejoe]

5. I wish I could share your optimism, but I haven't seen it here.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. I'm sorry. I truly wish I could offer you better reassurance. (nt)

[Rainbowreflect]

3. It is one of my top three issues.

But it is a non-issue until we get bush out of Al's house.

[Karenina]

31. It will cease to be a "non-issue"

very quickly the moment YOU are personally affected. Due to the side effects of what my gynecologist described as a "harmless little pill" my melanin heavy skin is light sensitive. Last year I had a reaction in early April. (Normally I put my Burkha on in late May.) It was MID-OCTOBER before I could come out again. Meanwhile THOUSANDS died from the heat we experienced last summer. If you are interested, I'll let you know the day I get "zapped" by the sun telling me it's time to take refuge in a cave.

[Rainbowreflect]

46. What I meant by a non-issue was that bush will do nothing for

the environment, not that I would do nothing for the environment.
I believe the best thing we can do to help the environment is get bush out of office.

[Karenina]

47. You betcha!

And even achieving that, which will be no small feat, we need to get some serious ass in gear to mitigate the effects of what we have set in motion due to our DECADES LONG, IDIOTIC NEGLIGENCE. Sorry if I misunderstood you. I get riled when people throw candy wrappers onto the street. ;-)

[Rainbowreflect]

50. I do not blame you. I cannot comprehend how anyone can not care.

This is everyones home. Neither money nor power can protect them from the destruction of the environment. Whatever harm we do to the earth we do to ourselves and what ever love and care we show her is returned a hundred fold.

[slackmaster]

4. Very high on my list, especially for local elected officials

I'm a fanatical recycler and composter as well as an open space advocate and hater of pollution of all kinds.

[jus_the_facts]

7. IMO it's THE most pressing issue the world faces....all else is secondary.

.....I was actually made fun of in a thread about gasoline prices goin' up when I stated..."to hell with gasoline and the pimps that have us hooked on it...we have to END our dependence on fossil fuel...not just beg for cheaper prices...etc." So I totally understand where you're comin' from...it amazed me that this poster too personal offense and ridiculed...even when I said we're ALL guilty of not takin' more of a STAND on our progressive ideology where OPEC is concerned....I didn't exclude m'self from the problem either but that's how it was twisted and argued! :(

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. I know what you mean

I'm not a one-issue gal by any means, but the environment seems tantamount to me too. No Earth = no people.

[Redneck Socialist]

9. It is pretty much the top issue for me, but

I agree with you that it seems barely on the radar as far as DU goes.

[leftyandproud]

10. I care about regulating corporations

the environment is an easy way in...back door approach.

never admit this to the repugs though..

;)

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. heheh.. Get those dang corporations!

Well, not Bnn n Jerry's, Burt's Bees, or Newman's Own. I bet they are all right. ;)

[Viking12]

11. Top of my list

and other's too!!!

http://www.environment2004.org

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Welcome, Viking12 :)

[tom_paine]

12. Very close to the top of my list

However, Empires are notoriously callous towarsd the environment so unless we stop the Busheviks there is no chance the environment will be protected at all.

But personally, yes, it's in my Top 3 issues. In a Strong and Healthy Republic it would be #1.

[Terran]

16. It's my top issue, and I think you're totally wrong

I've been at DU for going on three years, and there have been innumerable threads on global warming, oil peak, fuel efficiency, energy policy, the Kyoto Treaty, any topic you'd care to mention...and that's just in GD/LBN. In case you weren't aware, there's a separate forum devoted to these issues. Given that you apparently didn't know about that oil peak site, I wonder how carefully you've been looking for threads on environmental topics, because it's been discussed here several times recently.

I grant, it's not the top issue at DU, but that's a given. We all oppose Bush, and his environmental crimes and failures are just one of the many huge problems associated with his adminsitration. Thus, getting rid of Bush is Job #1. There is little to be done on a large scale, environmentally, while he is in office.

[littlejoe]

17. I don't disagree that there have been threads on environmental

issues here. I have seen many, and I have posted my share. That's not the issue I'm addressing. Rather, it's the total lack of interest that these threads generate.

[Terran]

18. Well, can you cite an example or three?

Because while such threads don't typically generate 100 responses, I have not noticed any glaring lack of interest in them. Most threads don't generate more than 15-20 responses, I would say. How do you measure lack of interest.

[littlejoe]

20. Dirk, it sounds as though you are trying to bait me,

by impugning my veracity. Shame!

[tkmorris]

21. I disagree

Dirk isn't trying to bait you. If anything you are the one baiting by posting a thread expressing surprise that a Democratic board doesn't care as much about the environment as you'd expect. You imply that there is a hypocrisy at DU.

Except there isn't. As Dirk pointed out there have been inumerable threads about all sorts of environmental policy, laws, violations, and so on. Some of those threads have been very lengthy indeed. When they aren't it is usually because there is little controversy to debate. If someone posts a thread about say, a proposed Walmart superstore which will be built on an existing wetland (or anywhere else really), the thread won't go too far. Why? Because there is no debate to be had. You would be hard-pressed to find anyone here to support destroying wetlands. So the thread degenerates into 12 responses of "How appalling!", and dies.

Give people something to actually talk about though and everyone jumps in. What's the best solution to our horribly inefficient and polluting love of the internal combustion engine? Lots of possibilities there, and everyone has an opinion.

Look around. Even though there is an awful lot going on in the world that impacts only indirectly on the environment, and those events do dominate conversation at times, the issue is still here and it IS being discussed at great length. I also strongly encourage you to start your own threads on the topic instead of threads asking why there isn't more interest. Make sure you give people something to discuss. If you post a topic bemoaning the evils of the lumber companies for example, don't expect 150 people to chime in only to say "Me too."

[littlejoe]

25. I just call it like I see it. Same as you do. But it's interesting

that almost everyone else here agrees with me.

[tkmorris]

32. Nope

Everyone here agrees with you that the environment is an important issue. I don't see many agreeing that it is as overlooked on DU as you claim.

[littlejoe]

33. It is definitely being overlooked.

I have eyes and I can see. I spend inordinate amounts of time reading the boards. I KNOW when topics get paid attention to and when they don't. And I wouldn't have made my original statement if I didn't see a disturbing trend.

[Terran]

43. I see three people on this agreeing with you,

more or less. I suggest you simply take all these peoples' words for it and admit that people here do care a great deal about the environment.

[littlejoe]

49. You have the right to disagree with me, and I have the right,

to tell you that I don't see things your way. Let's leave it at that. No need to get into a pissing contest.

[Terran]

42. Not at all

And I'm not questioning your veracity, I'm merely questioning your perceptions. I'll wager 75% of the DU population considers the environment to in its top five issues. Just because the enviro threads don't garner 100 posts does not indicate a lack of interest.

I might add that I think one reason for the perceived lack of interest is that environmental issues usually proceed very slowly, whereas political ones often happen over mere days. We've been hearing about global warming for decades, and it's only now beginning to make itself felt in human activity. Oil peak is huge, but it's a story that will spin itself out over decades. Political issues are, like it or not, the focus of this forum. But to assert that we progressives don't care about the environment is really rather silly.

Dirk

[Lindacooks]

19. It's in the top three on my list

Along with civil rights and right to privacy.

[the_angry_one]

22. I'm optimistic about the environment. Why? Because Leonardo DiCaprio is!

Although I'm not a huge fan of actors who generate bigger news on who they date and where they get drunk, I have to admire Leonardo DiCaprio's initiatives. Who knows whether it's a marketing ploy to endear his younger fans but I think it should be respected regardless.

http://www.leonardodicaprio.org/globalwarninglaunch.html

I think the intro video is a great introduction on global warming for kids and others.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi the_angry_one!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kiahzero]

23. Environment is VERY important to me

Then again, being a pagan, that's hardly surprising, now is it?

[dawn]

24. It's extremely high on my list, too.

I agree with Pentagon scientists that global warming is the greatest threat to humanity today.

[mantis49]

26. At the top of my list n/t

[Piperay]

27. Environment is my number one issue and

I agree that it seems to not get much coverage here anyway not as much attention as it should have, this issue is literally a matter of life and death. There really should be nothing that is more important because with the environment destroyed anything else is irrelevant.

[cally]

28. Close to my top issue

I don't think the earth will survive unless we address global warming and depletion of the ozone layer. I don't post in many of the environmental threads because it doesn't seem debatable. Almost all agree. Even though I don't post, I usually read the thread.

[maggrwaggr]

29. #1 issue for me for years now. Now it's #2 behind ousting Bushco

The environment is the reason I decided a long long time ago that I could never EVER vote republican

[maxanne]

34. perhaps

you'd do better to pick a specific issue and focus on it - like water, or air pollution. The environment as a topic is too cumbersome to work well.

Also, it would help if you didn't sound quite so condescending, as in the"I care about the environment, why don't you" message that seems prevailant in your post.

[littlejoe]

48. I said what I said, and meant it the way that it sounded.

As far as picking only one topic, to me that's like saying, "Pick the poison that will kill you. Do you want clean water, or do you want clean air, or do you want your ozone> Now you can only have one!"

I care about and support efforts to address several environmental issues. If you disagree with the way I call this, then you, of course have that right.

As I said in a previous post, if I didn't notice such a lack of response, I wouldn't have bothered to write the thread.

[Indiana_Dem]

35. Although I don't always respond, I read every Environment thread

It's the most important issue for me because I can see how it effects many other issues--jobs, trade, national security, healthcare, almost everything!

[LWolf]

36. I do.

I can't speak for "we."

[G_j]

37. right up there at the top n/t

[corporatewhore]

38. My top priorities : Ending free trade and franken foods

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wto/FTAAWTOEnvironment.html

[Xithras]

39. Not really, but we like to talk the talk

There are SOME legitimate environmentalists in the U.S., and most people SAY they support protecting the environment, and many of them even BELIEVE they do....but they don't.

You wanna see something disgusting? Look at how many SUV's or polluting old VW's you see in the parking lot of your local Sierra Club meeting. Ask your friendly "radical environmentalist" how much of his trash he recycled or composted last year. Ask her how much of the furniture in her home is made of materials manufactured or harvested in an environmentally safe manner? Ask yourself how YOU typically respond to the question "Paper or plastic?" How about the house you live in? Is it a comfy suburban detached built on land that was formerly open space or forest? Do you shop at stores with clearly stated environmental policies and buy products made using environmentally friendly sustainable resources? Have you turned the HEATER in your house way down to reduce your PERSONAL greenhouse gas emissions?

When was the last time you rode your bicycle to work?

It's easy to say "I support the environment" and sit back smugly thinking that you're helping to save the Earth, or to vote for politicians that will "do something" about the problem. It's another thing entirely to live your life in a way that really protects the environment and minimizes your impact on the rest of the planet.

Think about this: Democrats like to complain that the government isn't "doing anything" to bring us into compliance with Kyoto and reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. Sound familiar? Well, here's a thought you may NOT have had. Democrats account for slightly over HALF of the population in this country. If every Democrat and Green who "claims" to support the environment would cut their OWN PERSONAL emissions by a third, we could probably cut the national output of greenhouse gasses by several percent. So why aren't we? Because it isn't convenient...we want the environment protected, but we want someone ELSE to make all of the hard choices. We are a nation of "Weekend Environmentalists".

Many people, at this point, like to trot out their own personal accomplishments and say "Not ME! I protested...." but more often than not, people protest out of NIMBYism more than genuine concern for the environment. Yeah, you may have protested when the local logging company wanted to clearcut your favorite camping area, or when the local politico's wanted to build a nuclear reactor behind your house, or when the chemical company upriver started dumping sludge, but when was the last time you drove halfway across the state to protest something that had ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT ON YOU simply because you knew it was wrong? Most local environmental activism is born of self protection rather than Earth protection.

And before anyone says it: Yes, I AM aware that my brush is wide and that many people DO take their responsibilities seriously. I applaud you people and hold you up as examples to the rest...we need MORE people like you! Sadly, you are not the majority, or even a significantly large fraction, of the American population.

[Indiana_Dem]

40. Ashamedly, you nailed me right on!

However, I've only REALLY had my eyes opened in the last month about the seriousness and the consequences. It's REALLY affected my thinking lately. It starts in the consciousness and that's where I'm at. I've begun by writing my mayor with some ideas for my community. When my lease runs out on my Jeep, my plans are to buy a Prius for starters. I am also looking at ways I can afford to go solar/wind at home but living in the midwest it might be hard and it's extremely expensive. I couldn't find any dealers anywhere in Indiana. I already recycle all my plastic, glass and paper. I may even ride a bike when I can. So I think I'm heading in the right direction. I plan to start going to local community meetings where I can promote bike paths and maybe some community transportation system. I just began turning my heat down this week and am using blankets and extra clothing!!! I've even been feeding my stale bread to the birds again! I think I've grown a lot in the last month!!;)

[Xithras]

45. Sadly, I nailed myself as well

I didn't mean for my post to sound like such a "holier than thou" diatribe, because I'm JUST as guilty of environmental neglect as the rest of the country, but the hypocrisy of convenience based environmentalism is shameful and doesn't often get called.

Personally, my car gets good mileage, but it's been years since I've ridden to work. My thermostat is set to 60 degrees in the winter, but I'm sure that I make up for it when the mercury rises and I fire up my A/C. I oppose logging, and yet I own a beautiful Brazilian mahogany bedroom set that I'm sure was cut from rain forest. I compost my scraps and recycle my glass, but far too much plastic still makes it into my trash can.

I call myself an environmentalist and proudly sport my Sierra Club and Greenpeace bumper-stickers, and yet I'm as much a part of the problem as the next guy. I'm glad to hear that you're improving your awareness of the environment, but none of us can escape blame for the environmental destruction going on around the world today. It's time for the people who want a better world to stop complaining and just start changing things...we don't NEED the governments permission OR their cooperation.

I think I'll ride my bike to work tomorrow :)

[mike_c]

41. putting environmental protection before corp. profit...

...is one of my candidate litmus tests. So far, only DK and the Green party as a whole have passed.

[KT2000]

44. What does "environment" mean?

It is a huge issue and defined in a variety of ways. Do we all agree about what is meant by the term environment when used in the political sense?
I do not think there is consensus. Industry has spent millions trying to destroy "environment" as a shared value. They have defined it most subtly as a class issue.

As an example, in another thread there was a discussion about Penn and Teller labeling environmentalists as elitists - they have bought the industry propaganda.

What we are left with is a term that means different things to different people. Unfortunately though, our public health laws - how contaminated: our air can become; our water;, our food; our homes; our bodies and those of our children are governed by environmental laws. But that consideration is never discussed.

Environment is probably the most important issue of all, but I agree that at DU there is not much interest as with the rest of the country.