Do you think people want a stupid person as their leader? Maybe they

[efhmc]

like it if someone is closer to them in thought? They do not feel so threaten or maybe we DUers are just intellectual, elitist snobs.

[Cleita]

1. You are close to the truth here.

Bush appeals to some poor gobs because they have limited communication skills like he does. The fact that he appears successful appeals to them. Let's face it. A lot of women loved Martha Stewart for the same reason. All that successful homemaking made scrubbing out the bathroom seem not so demeaning.

[efhmc]

2. Well, does that mean that we need to appeal to the common element

by appearing like boobs or can we gain their attention and support by appealing to a higher, more commanding plane?

[Cleita]

7. Sometimes I wonder.

A lot of people seem to need to be told what to do. The only way I can explain this is by a personal experience regarding a girl I hardly knew through high school. She was a sort of a mousy, but pleasant type who never, ever got into trouble, but still was quite intelligent and worked hard at various extra-curricular activities.

She went into the convent to become a nun after we graduated. Most of us weren't surprised because you could literally tell her to soak her head in the loo, and we knew she would probably raise her head smiling. No, no one ever did his to her. As a matter-of-fact even though it was sometimes mentioned we all liked her too much in spite of her pliability.

She failed as a nun. They rejected her before the end of her noviate and she was devastated. (Yes, there were those of us who kept in touch with her.) So she turned around one day and joined the Air Force, met a nice guy, got married and went the way of perfect American family values.

The point I am making is that I guess today she would be called needy and she needed someone to tell her what to do no matter how hard it was.

[efhmc]

14. I feel sorry for that person. Maybe she will become empowered one day.

I just hope she doesn't have any daughters. They are victims in the making.

[democratreformed]

23. Some people have no desire for empowerment

They are perfectly content to live their entire lives at the whim of their "masters". The women in my husband's family are that way. They do as their husbands say, jump when they say, everything else they say. They are immensely happy and will never change.

[efhmc]

27. You know I wonder if they are "immensely happy". One day, one of them

will crack, if not verbally, then mentally or physically. No human being was meant to live that way.

[democratreformed]

32. Maybe, I guess, but since my m-i-l is on up in her 60s, I don't think it

will be her. My sister-in-law, I really can't see it happening but it could, I guess.

My dad's mother was like this alot too. She was so helpless after my g'pa died that I even had to go dial the phone for her every time she wanted to call long distance. My mom complained about her helplessness all the time. In the end, it was very sad b/c there weren't enough people in her family with enough time to deal with her constant neediness and she began to feel useless and like a burden to everyone. I lived right beside her so I got called on alot. But, I taught at a school about 40 miles away and didn't have all the time she needed either. It was very sad.

Back to my mother-in-law, I think she likes it the way it is. It gives her an excuse for relying on everyone else to take care of her needs. Then, she can always blame someone else when things go wrong as well.

[efhmc]

36. Now, believe or not that is not an unempowered person. She is using

that "nonpower" to get what she wants.

[democratreformed]

37. Aha. I see that now.

You are completely correct.

[BillZBubb]

3. I don't think it's that simple.

And my answer demonstrates the problem. People like simple answers. Nothing is more painful to most people than to have to think.

That's the reason most conservatives seem really stupid to most liberals. They can find an easy answer to everything--it doesn't matter if it has been thought through or not. In most cases it hasn't been. Seeing things in black and white makes it easy. "You're with us or against us", "If you're not a conservative you're a socialist".

Liberals try to deal with the real world that is gray-scale. So, discussing ideas requires flexibility and nuance. Most people get lost or bored in such discussions.

[efhmc]

5. Ah, an analytical thinker. You have proven my point. You are a person

of reason and therefore not a conservative. They see thing in black and white and so harm themselves and many others in the process.

[LostInAnomie]

4. To most Repugs...

anybody with over an 8th grade education is an intellectual, elite snob.

[efhmc]

6. Welcome and thanks for your post. But remember georgie boy has a

master's degree in business.

[DieboldMustDie]

8. But he does that Texas cowboy shtick of his pretty well.

Hell! He's even been known to refer to his father as "my daddy." :puke:

[efhmc]

11. That's interesting. Just how much do you think "daddy" contributes to

his son's reign? Please, remember that I am a real Texan and he is as phoney as the day is long. I run a ranch and deal with the real folks. They may be simple be they are not evil and this guy is evil.

[seabeyond]

15. texan

rancher and on this board. i just keep lovin you more and more. lol

went into spudnut this morning to get boys donuts, all the good ole boys go in there, they are getting to know us a business of 33 years i am told this morning. all the old timers getting such a kick playing with boys, walked out and said see i can talk texan, with any ole texan, can even say yeehaw, lol lol. there is a beauty

was gonna ask, so who is voting kerry, and decided not just yet, bah ha ha ha

[efhmc]

18. Where exactly are you? It really is funny how no person I know

sounds anything like that phoney baloney. Do you remember hearing Loyd Benson speak? Well that is the way the Texans I know sound.

[seabeyond]

22. amarillo

my husband born and raised in midland and his people are in el paso.

he doesnt have an accent at all and i am from calif pick up on sound so easily. so i go around in texan song, and drives him nuts. tells boys, i assure you no texan says yee haw like your mom says. we are at a boyscout to do and a man with his son walks past us and says yee haw, i jump up and say what did you say,..........

see they do to say yeehaw.

ya but many many buy his good ole boy and the really sad, the good ole boys i know in this area, they really are good ole boys and honesty and integrity and honor is important to them, and they are being fooled

[efhmc]

30. Amareally, as my SIL used to say. You are so right about the real "good

old boys". They are proud of their reps and spend their lives actually trying to do what is right. But to them liberals are the devil's spawn and bush is a God fearing man and it seems like no lie he tells and nothing he does will steer them in another direction. Too sad. BTW, when I grew up it was ah-haw as in Bob Wills', etc. music. I love opera so I am not an expert on this.

[Djinn]

9. yes and he served

his country valiantly: fulfilling his duties as required, saving Texans from the VietCong...

[efhmc]

12. So that's why my house was never attacked because bushie was up over

head protecting me. I never knew until now how lucky I have been to have a bush protecting me practically my entire life.

[goclark]

29. GIVEN a Masters

Correction, he was GIVEN everything that most of us have EARNED.

He knows next to nothing about Business. Just listen to his off the cuff explanations about the economy. I have seen 4th graders give better answers.

IMO -There is no way that he earned that Masters.

[efhmc]

31. Well it would be a first in his life. I grant you that. Don't you love the

way no amount of influence could get him accepted at UT law school?

[smirkymonkey]

48. Which is why the economy under his

watch is just booming.

He was handed an "MBA" at HBS because of who he was. It has nothing to do w/ intelligence.

He's has f**ked up every business venture he has ever laid his hands on - so what exactly did he learn in b-school???

[efhmc]

49. Too true. He can't even count on his buddies who might be good at

economics to help him now because their greed has made things bad for too many of the nonrich and it just can't be hidden or passed off any more.

[rocktivity]

16. "If you refer to the sixth grade as 'my senior year'...

...then you MIGHT be a redneck."
--Jeff Foxworthy

:headbang:
rocknation

[efhmc]

19. Some of those graduates are probably much smarter than bush.

But do you think that dumb and dumber is the leader that most people really want? Don't you think that most would feel safer with someone that reads and thinks but is not too cocky about it? My kid is smarter than your syndrome or my leader is smarter than yours?

[Zinfandel]

10. Reagan proved they want someone to tell them what they want to hear

Even if they know it's lies...Bush fits the profile. A false sense of security is more secure to these sheep than change…even though change would be much more beneficial for them. Frightened children, and Bush/Rove capitalize on this….FEAR! 9-11 terrorism!

[efhmc]

13. Some gallant souls are telling bush that it won't work, using the death

of their loved ones to prove what a brave, great leader he is. It probably would not work even if he actually were a brave, great leader.

[goclark]

17. We Do Have Higher Level Thinking Skills

I always refer to my Demo friends as"creative thinkers." Most of my Repub friends always think "straight up and down." There is no other point of view.

I don't think we will ever be able to change their minds in record numbers.

I do think we should continue to use our Creative Genius to outsmart them.

Stuff like moveon.com, the Dean Campaign use of the internet,Kerry's aggressive stance and Bring It On stuff. Beat them at their own game.

Yea for us!

[efhmc]

20. So they may like dumb but we can use that quality against them?

I think you are right. It's not just being smarter, it is using your "smarts" creatively.

[Brewman_Jax]

21. Yes, they do

one of my drinking buddies in 2000 said that he thought that Gore was smart, but was gonna vote for Bush* because Bush* was cooler than Gore. "I could have a beer with Bush*!" he says. I say, "I could too, but don't you want someone with some brains to run the country?" "Yeah," he says, "but that Gore is just too damned smart for his own good."

WTF? I think.

He's likely to do it again 'cause he doesn't like Kerry. Don't feel too bad for my friend--he's a chickenhawk who decided that he was too young to serve, but it's okay that others go die in Vietnam so he can call the protesters traitors.

He's got 9-year-old twins. I'll have to break out the hammer of truth, again, and make him think about the massive deficit that they'll have to pay back, or that they may be drafted in 10 years to go serve in Iraq.

[efhmc]

25. Does he still "like" bush? Keep hammering. What is likability do to help

him, his children or anyone?

[Brewman_Jax]

35. I've thought about that

I've asked what has Bush* done for YOU, and I don't let him dance around. He can't answer, (he's got freeper tendencies) and hates it when I cloud the issue with fact.

I haven't asked about the economic and militaristic future that his kids will have to deal with--yet. I'll have to hit him with that when I get back from my business trip next week.

[efhmc]

43. You really are a good friend, trying to show him the "light'.

Maybe you will make some inroads into his freeperness. Good Luck.

[seabeyond]

28. he is smart

but would be fun to have beer with bush

i could have probably snorted coke with bush in my rebel 20's, but hey......lol lol i want smart running country. i too had a touhg time hearing that comment would generally sit in awe of such conclusions

[efhmc]

33. So reasoning has no power here. Ask him what he would talk to bush

about during this beer: the war, the deficit, job losses (that are never returning), WMD, funding education, depleting SS, etc. Guess that probably won't fly, your friend probably knows his likable leader's limits.

[adriennel]

24. they don't know any better

and propaganda works really well with the uninformed.

[YNGW]

26. Interesting Responses

Especially the one's claiming superiority.

"Would some power the gift to give us; to see ourselves as others see us." - Robert Burns

[RandomKoolzip]

34. Interesting response from you.

Denying superiority over "the average American" yet tacitly staking a claim on it via pith and brevity. I had a friend like you who was a Libertarian. Couldn't say or do anything without being pompous about it. Decried liberal "elitism" yet refused to see himself as average, in fact flaunted his supposed "differentness," meaning of course imagined superiority.

Every one of your posts is designed to pour cold water on your supposed friends in the Democratic Party. Why is that? Ever get tired of playing Devil's advocate?

[YNGW]

38. Hey

Maybe you think the "my shit don't stink, I'm smarter than you" attitude works with people. I don't.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. Well, I think RandomKoolZip has a point

the attitude you describe is precisely the attitude you take on DU. It's not so much playing the Devil's Advocate as it is lording your superiority over the posters here on DU. I have a feeling you're here to hone your debating skills, and not to share ideas with like-minded fellow Democrats. You mentioned that you're very well-off and the economic downturn hasn't hindered your success, yet I don't see a little star next to your handle. That's your prerogative-we all have to pick and choose our charities-but honestly, it doesn't lend you a lot of credibility when all you do is poo-poo the ideas of the Democrats on this board.

[RandomKoolzip]

42. Thank you, RationalRose....

:hi:

[YNGW]

45. Of course you do.

But my position remains, having an air of superiority is a turn-off to me. I'm guessing it is to most people.

I'm rather direct with my points, I don't talk in flowery language, I get to it. If you think that comes off as lording superiority, I can't help it. It's how I write.

And what other people do with their money as far as giving to campaigns or charitable contributions is not your concern. A star would be nice but there are people who are hurting in my immediate area that need the assistance I can offer much worse. I'll just call it priorities.

And no, I don't poo-poo ideas, nor am I here to hone debating skills. I do share ideas. I ask questions mainly and I make statements regarding what I believe is going on and what will happen this election cycle. Maybe some of the questions I raise or statements I say make you or others uncomfortable. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you disagree. That's fine, I don't care. It's just an opinion. Look, if you don't like it, disregard it. Won't bother me in the least. I happen to agree with my opinions. Lots of people agree with their own opinions. Who'd a thunk it?

Live and let live.

Now, were getting off topic. If you want to talk to me further, PM me. I won't bite your head off. I'm much more personable one-on-one. You'll walk away with a completely different perception, I assure you.

[efhmc]

40. Well, maybe there is a suggestion that one is not smart if he/she wants

bush as a leader. However, I would want my president to be smarter than I am and to have the capability to read in depth and reason and think clearly. What I am pondering is if that is not a mainstream idea?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

41. Because the poster is parroting RW points

about the perceived intellectualism of Democratic candidates. I think most people want their leaders to have simple things like problem-solving skills and the ability to explain policy. Bush has neither.

[efhmc]

46. So, does the AAV (average American voter, whatever that is) WANT

dumb or do they not care as long as they have their basic needs met? If it is about likability, I can't see how that smirking, dumb little cretin even fits that bill.

[californiahippie]

44. Possibly

I think a large portion of society doesn't want to educate themselves on the issue and looks at this as they would a football game, "go our team"!
It's a shame because such big issues are at stake. The minister at my church said last week (I could have the percentage wrong) "50 percent of Americans have never read a newspaper, and 50 percent of Americans don't vote. Let's hope it's the same 50 percent."
I don't think being concerned about issues makes one an elitist snob, I think it makes you a grass roots patriot.

[efhmc]

47. Good thought.

[leesa]

50. True. Mostly they don't want to have to think themselves, so they

just buy the prettiest package. Most Americans are completely dependent on advertising to do their thinking for them. The GOP are masters of advertising. Doesn't matter that their platform is entirely composed of lies, it's wrapped in a very attractive package designed to appeal to basic needs of their base. They are simply masters of the con job. Progressives, are simply brutally real.

[efhmc]

51. So lots of cash and a good pr firm and you're off and running.

Sad state of affairs.