When is enough, Enough?

[littlejoe]

I have a sister who never, and I mean NEVER fails to mention just how much she loathes sports of any kind, whenever she is in my presence.

For a great many years now, I have been able to sense when she is going to go off on the subject of sports, and so I interrupt and finish her very predictable thought, followed up by a "yes, Mary Jane. I think we know how you feel."

I relate this story to former and current supporters of other candidates. First of all, I don't want to make the mistake of painting all with one broad brush stroke. Many have been gracious, when getting behind John Kerry. But there are many who can't or won't let go, without saying things like, "John Kerry stinks, but I'll vote for him", or "I can't stand him, but I will vote for him", or "I guess we're stuck with him", or "He's the lesser of two evils", or "I was a (fill in the blank with your former candidate).

You get the picture. The list of derrogatory remarks, followed by the phrase, "but I will vote for him", are endless.

I understand many of you are unhappy. I also know that we have the freedom to speak our mind. And I also know that this is a risky post, because some people will tell me, "How dare you try to tell me what to say or what not to say!" Which is true. I'm walking a fine line here, folks.

I don't have the right, nor does anyone else have the right to tell you what you can or cannot say, with the occasional exception of Skinner. But when is enough, enough? What useful purpose does it serve to constantly remind people every time you post, that you hate Kerry, but will vote for him?

Honestly, if I had a nickle for every remark like these, I could take my wife out for a wonderful steak dinner and a movie.

Could we please tone down the anti-Kerry rhetoric? I don't see where it does any good.

[adadem]

1. I second the motion. n/t

[Vladimir]

2. Guilty as charged

But I think it serves a genuine purpose: It reminds people that a lot of those voting Dem in November won't be voting for Kerry, they'll be voting against Bush. And that might, just in some little way, help nudge Kerry to the left on some issues once elected, if he feels that a lot of his support was due to anti-Bush feeling.

On Edit: Obviously his support is in large part due to disliking Bush anyway. What I mean is if he feels that a lot of people ONLY voted for him to get Bush out, it may be a bargaining chip later.

V

[littlejoe]

3. I appreciate your honest assessment.

[rucky]

7. I'll have to go with Vladimir on this one

but i'm trying to muster up genunine enthusiasm as well. i see the box that kerry's in.

[LWolf]

4. From the outside

I'll say that I don't like or dislike Kerry. For me, the issue has nothing to do with Kerry; he is a byproduct of the issue.

I'll try to explain. I'm someone who hasn't often, in my almost 44-year lifetime, felt represented or supported by a single human being on the face of the blessed planet. There was one boss, for a short 2-year period. Never a politician, colleague, neighbor...do you get the picture?

Yet I've faithfully voted my entire adult life. I've always participated, and never got what I wanted back. I've watched the herd around me moving to the beat of conventional wisdom that I never thought was very wise. And it was always ok; obviously, everyone else knows better than me. It's me, not them. I'm fine with that. Politically, I knew, even while I appreciated the difference between Clinton and Bush I, that he was not working for the principles I valued. Again, if no one but me values them, that's as it should be. The result of a lifetime of my candidates never winning, my representatives never listening, result in a pretty hard shell of cynicism and apathy. I truly understand why so many people don't vote. I vote, but I never feel as if my vote made a positive difference. So why bother?

Then came Bush II. I was angered by people who were stupid enough to vote for him. I was angered by people who then expressed shock and dismay at the result. And I think they deserve what they voted for. Except the rest of us who didn't are punished as well. I steeled myself to be "political" in 2004 so that I could lend my energy toward the greater good; evicting the pretender. I didn't think I'd like it; I didn't expect to find a candidate I could truly believe in and vote FOR. I didn't think one existed.

Imagine what it was like to discover a candidate that actually represented what I wanted for my country and the planet! Given my record, that should have told me right there that he wouldn't be nominated. But I had a year of enthusiasm, hope, and energy. And I'm grateful for it; for the first time Tuesday, I actually voted FOR someone.

And I'm pretty much done; if the democrats have spoken and made their choice, they can live with the consequences of that choice. If one of those consequences is the anger of part of the party, DEAL WITH IT. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICE, RATHER THAN PLACING BLAME. If one of the consequences is that many potential allies are lost, DEAL WITH IT. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICE. And, if one of the consequences is that some democrats return to apathy, DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICE.

I will not tear John Kerry down. Neither will I express false enthusiasm for him. I don't much care about him one way or the other. I will vote for the damned nominee in November. It is a vote AGAINST GWB, not FOR anything at all. That's the consequence of being in the minority. And I'll take the consequences for being true to myself. DEAL WITH IT.

[littlejoe]

5. I don't see how that relates to this post.

[Kanary]

6. LWolf, you have said a whole mouthfull!

I see myself reflected in your honest and painful words, from the very personal to the political.

The lack of support and caring that you so clearly express takes a huge toll on any person. After enough years of it, the spirit is sagging badly. Those consequences of which you so elequently speak suck the very life out of a person. Finally, one has to come to the point of putting their own self and happiness above all, or sink into a deep depression.

This is a society of power. Rather than listen and try to understand another person, we lecture and browbeat in order to get them to do what we think they should do. After enough of it, the lectured ones and the browbeaten ones drift off. Then, of course, they are vilified for drifting off.

A good friend of mine lived through the tragedy of her husband's brain cancer and subsequent death. She handled it with unbelievable grace, yet after a time was told by many that it was time "to move on". Rather than try to understand what she was going through, and why it affected her as it did, people had the audacity to think they had the right to tell her how she should be living. It's the nature of this society, and the reason it's so dysfunctional. More support and less criticism would go far to increase understanding and peace, and reduce violence. Yet, we can't seem to move in that direction as a people.

You've said it all very well, and I'm there, also.

Those who have ignored us, and told us what we *should* think and *should* feel have done so of their own volition. It's up to them to recognize the results of their own actions. It's not *my* responsibility.

I admire your honesty, and your considerable strength.

Kanary

[LWolf]

11. Thank you.

For the empathy and the understanding.

:hug:

[PATRICK]

8. Pain and disappointment

all too often create very bad reactions and the wounds are still fresh. Better to cool down than become someone looking for spiteful vindication rather than the goals ALL the candidates were aiming for.

The candidate with the biggest personal cause for spite was Lieberman after Gore effectively betrayed him, rather gratuitously as it turns out. Yet these pros don't seem as vocally wasteful of their spleen as some of their supporters whom you would think were the ones personally running for office.

No more Nader-like mudsling fests please. We could do better taking old ones and pasting and posting them periodically to amaze our better selves.

Bad manners: glee or spite. Bad postings: poisoning our shrinking window of opportunity.

[JNelson6563]

9. If I had a penny for every bash post

for my candidate I'd be wealthy, very.

Trying to force congeniality will have adverse effects. You are much mistaken in your approach and your chosen forum.

You cannot squelch discussion on Democratic Underground. Earlier attempts have had negative results, or didn't you notice the latest fundraiser didn't go as they usually do?

To insist on your chosen style of discussion (a.k.a. no dissent) is to do nothing less then to turn this into the Free Republic of the left. No thank you.

Julie

[littlejoe]

10. What purpose does your reticence to show good manners serve?