AP Poll: Bush 46%, Kerry 45%, Nader 6%

[Flubadubya]

Well, what are your thoughts on this?

Mr. Nader, is there really no difference? Have you learned nothing? How can this man continue to be so blind?

[AndyP]

1. I dont' get it

If people would open their eyes we wouldn't have to care about Nader, It would be a Kerry landslide. It's going to be ignorace of people who blindly vote for Bush that will make this a close race, not Nader.

[SHRED]

2. 2 terms...

...of Reagan, followed by a term of Poppy Bu$h, are absolute proof that ignorance runs rampant through the average U.S. citizen's brain cells.

The commercial/corporate media leads and they follow.

[dennis4868]

23. As an American....

I could never vote for a WH that outs a CIA Agent! How could any American with a conscience vote for Bush?

[bushisanidiot]

3. Clearly, The Country Leans Left.. if we didn't figure that out from 2000

I think Nader will bow out in a few months anyway.. after he's taken plenty of Neandertal repuke cash..

[Kazak]

4. Even if he doesn't (which I think he will)...

He can't possibly get on the ballot in most places anyway.

[Crachet2004]

I really hope you are right...

Ralph is killing us, but I don't think to the extent this poll shows! I can easily believe in a 6% protest vote against both parties, but when it actually comes time to vote, how can that many people vote for Ralph, knowing they are enabling Bush thereby?

The incumbent should get most of the blame for the disgruntlement that is undeniably out there!

I hope Ralph drops out...and I hope Roy Moore runs!

[bushisanidiot]

10. Yeah! Let's Start a Draft Roy Moore Campaign!!

heh..

[rainy]

5. Polled nader voters in 2000 showed only half would have voted

for Gore, the rest would have voted for others or not voted at all. I, in my heart think Nader is in it to keep the Progressive issues on the table. I really think he will back out in the end if the numbers show Kerry will lose due to votes Nader would receive. Listen to his words. He says just relax and wait and see. I think there are big plans up his sleeve. A movie, "The Corporation" comming out of Canada is coming out this summer and is suppose to have a big impact on our country. I am glad Nader is running as I want to keep the Progressive issues in the open. Kerry supports Sharon and this is unacceptable to me. He supported an illegal war. This is most unacceptable to me.

[Zero Gravitas]

7. Nader Voters

50% would have voted for Gore. Nader the Enabler got 90,000+ votes in Florida. With another 45,000 votes there is NO WAY Bush would have been able to steal the election.

What infuriates me about the Naderites is that they are so counter-productive. By staying out of the Dem party process they are pushing the party to the RIGHT. If the party moved to the left to pick up that 3% they would loose many more in the middle, so instead they have to move further to the right to make up for that 3%. Further more by staying out of the Dem debate there voices are not heard and no effect on the party. IF they stayed in and worked to change the party they would have more effect.

I have much more respect for Kucinich and his supporters than I do for Nader and his because they are actually working to make a real change not whining from the sidelines. If the Naderites joined with Kucinich they would have much more of an influence.

By making it easier for the Repubs to win they are accelerating the corporate takeover and destruction of the environment. Why do they think the Corporations give so much more money tot he GOP than they do to the Dems? Hint: its not because there's "no difference" between the parties on these issues.

I just have to hope that this 6% is just posturing and that most of those people will wake the fuck up by November.

Nader running is not about giving people a "choice". Its about, for whatever reason, helping Bush stay in power. If Nader really wanted to give people a choice he would have worked tirelessly for the last 3 1/2 years to put together a meaningful political movement. Just having a vanity candidacy at the last minute accomplishes nothing and is not a providing anyone a with an additional choice, because without doing the ground work it still boils down to Bush or Kerry and a vote for Nader IS a vote Bush.

[Flubadubya]

8. Great comments...

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks.

[Killarney]

11. EXACTLY!

That was so well worded. I couldn't agree more.

[erpowers]

14. I agree with you

The Naderites need to come into the party and try to change it. I would have loved for Nadr to be a part of the debates. I even would have liked to have him as the nominee, but I cannot vote for him now. I care more about getting rid of Bush. I do fear that some things will not change under Kerry, but he seems to be at least slightly better than Bush. And the people in Bush's cabinet have to go because they are too dangerous to this country. Also the Dems and progressives must remember that Gore beat Bush in the last election by 500 thousand votes. Kerry should be able to beat him by even more. One of the best kept secrets is the fact that many Republicans do not want to vote for Bush this year. Kerry needs to go out and promote his vision for the country and tell people why he is better than Bush. And Nader and other independents must tell their supporters to get out and vote for Kerry no matter how they feel.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Well said!!

You took the words right outta my mouth.

I'm afraid whatever respect I had for Mr Nader has completely evaporated. I'm sure there are millions of others like myself who now harbor such resentment of Nader that I can no longer even listen to his "message", so his candidacy is actually counterproductive to any hypothetical goals of keeping progressive issues on the front burner. I'm sick of everything I believe in and work so hard for being sacrificed at the altar of Ralph's egomania!!!!!!

[californiahippie]

22. You said it.

[californiahippie]

21. I hope you are right.

[BabsSong]

6. As Bill Mahr said---

He voted for Nader. He said now he knows better and rejects the idea that voting a Dem is simply voting for the lesser to two evils. He said the "lesser evil" is way, way better than the "greater evil". I say those who this time vote for Nader are no longer making a political statement; they are still hoping for destruction and chaos that they think will lead to the day the nation turns in droves to third parties. It won't happen.

[oc2002]

9. yep, I heard him say that too.

Its true.


Never before in my lifetime has a Predident been so completely partisain as this one. He has done the country more damage than even the most hyper liberal could of even concieced of 3 years ago. This president is the 'Greater Evil' that will take decades to undo, this time those that may have thought Dems and Repubs where about the same will think twice.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi BabsSong!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[K-W]

12. Considering that Bush is an incumbent and it is only March,

I like those numbers just fine. Nader will probably never have more support than he does now. He just announced and this far away from the election people feel more free to support long shots. As it gets closer and the heat between Bush and Kerry rises, nader supporters will switch over to Kerry.

If Kerry and Bush start out even, Kerry will win. Unfortunately the one big factor is Bush's massive monetary advantage.

[erpowers]

13. Don't worry Dems, At least not yet

Dems should not worry about this poll. First, at the most it only polled 1000 people. Therefore, this poll shows the opinion 1000 people not the entire country. Furthermore, it is possible that the poll surveyed different numbers of registered and likely voters or just surveyed likely voters. This is important in that athough likely voters might give higher numbers registered voters are the real mesuring stick. Depending on what type of voter is surveyed a poll result can be slanted. For instance, during the California Recall USA Today put out a poll that showed that Schwaggner was leading Davis. What the paper failed to mention up front was that they had surveyed 1001 people and then broken them into two different groups. Here come the killer, for likely voters they survey 581 people while for registered voters the surveyed about 731 people. What the results showed was that for likely voters AS led by about 60-40. For registered voters the lead was much less like 55-45 or something like that. However, the paper put out the numbers that showed the biggest lead for AS. My post was long but I think it needs to be mentioned that polls can be slanted to say whatever someone wants them to say and polls can also be misrepersented like the ones in the California Recall.

[stewert]

27. Hey erpowers..........

Most of your posting is dead on, but the number of people polled is a question.

For example, you could poll 1000 registered voters and get the same results as
polling 1,000,000 registered voters. That is where the + or - margin of error comes
in.

The big difference is whether you sample, adults over 18, likely voters, or registered
voters, not the actual number of people polled. The most accurate is registered voters,
the least accurate is adults over 18. Zogby samples registered voters only, that is why
his polls are so accurate. Any poll that only samples adults over 18 is crap, a poll of likely
voters is a not bad, but the best poll is one that samples registered voters only.

I think the + or - is only 1 or 2 points difference from 700 to 1000, that is why most
polls sample 1000 people. They found you can sample 1,000,000 people or 1000
people and get roughly the same results.

Zogby explains all this in detail on his FAQ page.

[rman]

15. so, election now: Bush wins

in spite of a majority voting other then Bush.
gee thanks, mr Nader.

Unless of course the Dem party and the 'Nader party' form a coalition, but it seems coalitions between parties just don't happen in the US.

[Zero Gravitas]

16. There is no Nader party

For there to be a party Nader and his supporters would have had to go out and do the grass roots organizing essential for any meaningful run for office. Instead Nader spent the time since the last election working on increasing his personal fortune. At best his is a vanity candidacy, at worst its a deliberate attempt to keep Bush in power. Nader knows (as do his backers from last time) that the only effect he can possibly have is to throw the election to Bush. Its not about changing the debate or giving people more choices or any of that bullshit. If it was he would have built a meaningful political organization.

[fob]

17. Can you supply the link to that story? I read it here yesterday

on a different post but didn't have time to comment. I find it hard to believe after all bush*s follies that Nader has INCREASED his support? If you read the story there is a quote from a Y2K bush* supporter who says he is thinking about voting for Nader. I think this is what is happening, Nader is probably pulling 2% from Dems, 2% from Independents and 2% from conservos! With a good campaign, we can make Nader a bush* drag and even the score!

fob

[Zero Gravitas]

18. we need the independents and the dems

to vote for Kerry. Sure it would be great if Nader could pull votes from bush*, but unfortunately if he can do that he can pull as many if not more from Kerry. Plus the in independents' votes are going to be essential to win. We have a better chance to win if Nader was not running than with him running even if he does pull some support from Bush*.

[Flubadubya]

24. Just saw it on CNN...

I don't have a link right now, but it is all over CNN.

[californiahippie]

19. This liberal hippy is about to...

open a can of whip *ss on Nader!

Have we learned nothing? If Naderites would have voted for Gore in 2000 we would have had a surplus, a cleaner environment, and a consitution (not just the remnants of one)! Arrrrrggggghhhh! Ya, Gore and Bush are the same, that theory really panned out.

[stewert]

25. I Don't Believe This Poll !

There is no way Nader is getting 6 percent, he only got 2 percent in 2000. There
is no way he could have more support now, it's impossible. Most of the Nader voters
plan to vote democrat this time to make sure Bush loses.

Just a few days ago Kerry was beating Bush by 8 to 11 points, now they are tied ?

It's BS, I think they did a little poll shopping, they did polls until they got the results
they wanted.

It's pretty fishy to me.

[PATRICK]

28. Agree it sounds incredible

to say the least and they pair it with a world poll that probably deemphasizes the disgust the vast majority of humanity have toward Bush. 6% for Nader frankly throws the whole validity of the sample into doubt, however they presented to whoever.

It is also incredible that so many here want to continue the empty Nader bashing which is not only new but in and of itself serving the very things both sides complain about. If this Nader "bounce" signals any reactive discontent on the left it is strangely present here.

[spindoctor]

26. What does Nader have to add to Sharpton or Kucinich?

After reading his 21 issues (or something like that) several weeks ago, I popped that question to his campaign but was never dignified with a response.
Although I agree with Nader in most cases, he does not add significant value to the discussion as long as there are still two progressive candidates in the race.

As for "stealing" Democratic votes, that is a never-ending discussion point that simply leads nowhere. If Kerry cannot make the White House without 10 million Nader voters, he simply isn't good enough, just like Al Gore simply wasn't good enough to beat the only President in history that makes Reagan look like a genius.

[KittyWampus]

29. Some Of Those Supporting Nader Are Republicans

some of ralph's percentage is from Republicans.